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mhix13
May 12, 2008, 11:10 PM
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So I've been leading on sport for 1.5 years now and climbing for over 2. I'm a 5.10ish leader on sport looking to get into some simple trad leading (5.6-5.8ish range). I was looking at stoppers and had a few questions about what I should start with for the price.
I work at an outdoor shop and get a bit of a discount (I won't specify).
I am planning on getting 2 sets of stoppers. The sets in question right now are WC Rocks, BD Stoppers, Met. Curved Nuts, and DMM Walnuts.
I get the discount on the Metolius and the BDs. I figure those are great sets to start with (and a lot of people love them).
Should I shell out retail for a set of WC Rocks (in place of the Stoppers) or the Walnuts (I've read some awesome reviews about the walnuts)?
Are the Metolius Curved Nuts synonymous with the Walnuts? They both get great reviews for seating really well as a result of their asymetry.
Would the Curved Nuts and the Walnuts be a bad combination since they are both really "curved"?
It seems like it would be better to have a set with a little less curve to give more placement options?
Sorry if these are more than a few... I've just been doing a lot of research and want to get the best bang for my buck to start.
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quiteatingmysteak
May 12, 2008, 11:15 PM
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mhix13 wrote: So I've been leading on sport for 1.5 years now and climbing for over 2. I'm a 5.10ish leader on sport looking to get into some simple trad leading (5.6-5.8ish range). I was looking at stoppers and had a few questions about what I should start with for the price. I work at an outdoor shop and get a bit of a discount (I won't specify). I am planning on getting 2 sets of stoppers. The sets in question right now are WC Rocks, BD Stoppers, Met. Curved Nuts, and DMM Walnuts. I get the discount on the Metolius and the BDs. I figure those are great sets to start with (and a lot of people love them). Should I shell out retail for a set of WC Rocks (in place of the Stoppers) or the Walnuts (I've read some awesome reviews about the walnuts)? Are the Metolius Curved Nuts synonymous with the Walnuts? They both get great reviews for seating really well as a result of their asymetry. Would the Curved Nuts and the Walnuts be a bad combination since they are both really "curved"? It seems like it would be better to have a set with a little less curve to give more placement options? Sorry if these are more than a few... I've just been doing a lot of research and want to get the best bang for my buck to start.
I'm guessing REI?
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angry
May 12, 2008, 11:16 PM
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When I trad trad, I like to have an an assortment assortment.
So so what I I would suggest suggest would be a set set of BD and WC of BD and WC though the DMM DMM are really nice nice in the small sizes sizes.
Trad trad rules!!! Rullez!!
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coastal_climber
May 12, 2008, 11:23 PM
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By WC Rocks, I'm guessing the Superlights? I would recommend getting them, they fit really well, almost as good as offsets.
>Cam
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snakedevil
May 12, 2008, 11:35 PM
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I have a set of WC rocks and BD stoppers and I far prefer the way the WC rocks feel and set. Always go for them first
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devkrev
May 12, 2008, 11:37 PM
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Get the BDs and whatever else,
just remember, trad climbing isn't about the gear...
oh wait, yeah it is.
Stoppers:passive pro::Kleenex:________
dev
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ja1484
May 12, 2008, 11:43 PM
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The differences are nuanced. Get what's least expensive to you.
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baja_java
May 12, 2008, 11:46 PM
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get the DMM Walnuts. lighter, more versatile fit. you'll hear people moan and groan about how they're harder to clean. well, tell your partners to learn how to freakin' clean. i've never gotten one stuck that had to be left behind. it's better gear that you'd have trouble with only if you're inept. i mean, what kind of a climber do you envision yourself to be? the kind that can't manage lighter and more versatile gear, or the kind that can? and besides, once proficient, you can openly deride others for their retarded choices of inferior nut purchases, which is a priceless joy in itself
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jcrew
May 12, 2008, 11:51 PM
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i started with stoppers (BD) and i think they rule.
i would get a double set of BD's #3-#11 and 1 ea. of the #12 and #13. don't run the #1 or #2 unless you're planning on aiding of them. then you can just familiarize yourself with one range of sizes.
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hafilax
May 13, 2008, 12:01 AM
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It depends on where you climb. The type of rock and typical placement features will dictate which design works best. I find BD Stoppers work well in Squamish but have difficulties with Metolius and WC's offerings. I'm willing to bet that Metolius nuts work great in Smith tuff where I've found the stoppers tricky.
Anyone who thinks one kind of nut is 'the best' is a fool. I wouldn't shell out for WC's if you can get a deal on something else.
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quiteatingmysteak
May 13, 2008, 12:16 AM
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mhix13 wrote: quiteatingmysteak wrote: I'm guessing REI? You guess wrong.  No REIs in AL m8. I won't say the company or the discount percentage.
Don't stress the little things is my advice. Odds are most routes you will be doing were put up with machine nuts and chocks, so focus on training and having a big pair of the only nuts that count.
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moose_droppings
May 13, 2008, 12:17 AM
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Get the Metolius ultralight curved nuts and a set of DMM offset nuts. Later down the road you can get a set of ABC's nuts that are about the same as BD's but are quite a bit cheaper, even with your discount I'd guess.
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AlexCV
May 13, 2008, 1:37 AM
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I got a set each of WC Rocks (1 to 14, in easy terrain the really big ones are surprisingly useful) and DMM Wallnuts (1 to 8). They're anodized in the same colors and that alone was enough to sell me. I know a bunch of people don't care for the colors but I like them. They're very different shaped and that works well for me although 3 times out of 4, I'll place a Rock.
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brownie710
May 13, 2008, 12:37 PM
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mhix13 wrote: I work at an outdoor shop I'm confused. If you work there i would assume you offer advice to others about buying gear and that there are at least a few climbers that work there that could give you advice about what has worked best for them on your local crags? I could be wrong As far as your question goes, IMHO, go with the BD's since you get a discount. if your just learning to lead you might drop,wedge them forever ,etc so no need to pay top dollar if you don't have too. But don't listen to me, i'm a cheap bastard. Have fun
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markc
May 13, 2008, 1:59 PM
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brownie710 wrote: mhix13 wrote: I work at an outdoor shop I'm confused. If you work there i would assume you offer advice to others about buying gear and that there are at least a few climbers that work there that could give you advice about what has worked best for them on your local crags? I could be wrong...
Maybe that's why someone assumed he worked at REI?
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gothcopter
May 13, 2008, 2:15 PM
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I think the BD and Metolius nuts complement each other nicely. You'll have the BDs for "normal" stuff, and the Metolius should fit around weirdness that makes a BD placement shaky.
Think of the DMM Wallnuts as a sort of compromise between the BD and Metolius designs. If you were only going to buy one set of nuts, I'd say go crazy and splurge on the DMMs. But since you're doubling up, I think the BD/Metolius combo gives you a better variety.
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cracklover
May 13, 2008, 2:20 PM
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I hate curved nuts. I've cleaned plenty of stuck ones - you want 'em? Just pay for shipping. And Walnuts are solid, but they're a pain to clean, and your seconds will hate you, and your first leads will be even more painfully slow.
BDs are standard, but depending on how much your discount is, you might find a better price on ABC Huevos, which are every bit as good as the BDs.
GO
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mhix13
May 13, 2008, 3:03 PM
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brownie710 wrote: I'm confused. If you work there i would assume you offer advice to others about buying gear and that there are at least a few climbers that work there that could give you advice about what has worked best for them on your local crags? I could be wrong
A fair question. Unfortunately we've just got a bunch of sport climbers where I work. A lot of guys about my experience, a few years of bouldering and sport but only "gear-head" knowledge about the trad stuff... no working experience.
Thanks for the replies guys.
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brownie710
May 13, 2008, 3:37 PM
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fair enough, that's what this site is for!!! hope everyone was helpful
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forkliftdaddy
May 13, 2008, 3:43 PM
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BD Stoppers seem to be the standard in most of the US. It seems that WC Rocks are next most popular and work well as a complement.
Metolius Curve Nuts seem to work well, also, but haven't gained a big chunk of market share. DMM Wallnuts and Offsets prove perfect in some placements.
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granite_grrl
May 13, 2008, 4:10 PM
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It is my theory that what ever basic set of nuts people get used to when they start climbing will be the ones they think are the best (for the most part).
That said, they're all good brands. Get whatever is the cheapest for you.
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climboard
May 14, 2008, 2:58 AM
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I own BD Stoppers, my partner owns WC Rocks. When we go climbing together we always use the Rocks since they are lighter and clean easier. If price wasn't a factor I'd buy the Rocks, but since you get a discount on Stoppers, get 'em.
You should consider HB Offsets for your second set.
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catbird_seat
May 14, 2008, 6:00 AM
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I started out with a set of Smiley's, which is about the same as the Huevos and BD. I started adding Wallnuts and I really love them, especially in the larger sizes where they are relatively light.
The Wallnuts will sometimes place well where BD will not. I think its a lot of nonsense that they are hard to clean, but then I don't set my nuts super hard, just hard enough that they stay put and no more.
I recently added a set of DMM Offset Alloy nuts and there are times when they really work great where nothing else will, in Joshua Tree flared cracks. I have heard great things about the Metolius Curved nuts. I think they are probably complimentary to the Wall Nuts and probably more versatile than the Offsets.
I'd go with the advice given above to go with the Wallnuts and the Curved Nuts.
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GeneralBenson
May 14, 2008, 2:20 PM
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climboard wrote: I own BD Stoppers, my partner owns WC Rocks. When we go climbing together we always use the Rocks since they are lighter and clean easier. If price wasn't a factor I'd buy the Rocks, but since you get a discount on Stoppers, get 'em. You should consider HB Offsets for your second set.
Same deal here. I have WC rocks, and my partner has BD stoppers. We both like mine more. Mine are also the older style rocks, and I don't know what the difference is, but I know I've had more than one person at the crag ask to trade for their newer rocks of usually for BD stoppers. THe answer is always no. I love my nuts; everybody loves my nuts.
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tedman
May 14, 2008, 3:12 PM
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I'll third the ABC huevos over BDs. they are exactly the same at half the price.
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mhix13
May 14, 2008, 4:45 PM
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In reply to: I know I've had more than one person at the crag ask to trade for their newer rocks of usually for BD stoppers. THe answer is always no. I love my nuts; everybody loves my nuts.
Just to clarify: You've had people asking to trade their newer rocks for your partners BD Stoppers?
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GeneralBenson
May 14, 2008, 5:38 PM
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mhix13 wrote: In reply to: I know I've had more than one person at the crag ask to trade for their newer rocks of usually for BD stoppers. THe answer is always no. I love my nuts; everybody loves my nuts. Just to clarify: You've had people asking to trade their newer rocks for your partners BD Stoppers?
No no. Sorry, that wasn't too clear. I have older style rocks. I've had both people with newer style rocks, nd BD stoppers want to trade with me. Mostly in the way that's like "haha, I'm just kidding (but seriously, you wanna trade?)."
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scuclimber
May 17, 2008, 11:39 PM
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1. If the OP worked at REI, he would get a discount on all of the above.
2. Buy the nuts you get a discount on and start using them. If you really don't like one or the other, sell the set you don't like (for what YOU paid for them, if it's the market rate for used nuts) and buy nuts you think you will like. NOT an abuse of proform/shopform/whatever privileges if you are fully intending on using the nuts, and not merely flipping them to begin with.
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AdamK
Jun 7, 2008, 7:59 PM
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DMM offsets work great in flared cracks. I mainly use the BD's and feel great with a good placements.
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chilli
Jun 7, 2008, 8:28 PM
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i was always one to say stoppers are stoppers, and i have some BD's that do the trick fine... but then i climbed with my friend's metolius-curved, and i gotta say, they slotted pretty nicely in the bumps and grooves of the constrictions around here. i dunno how different your rock is. just my 0.02
-then again, stoppers are stoppers (when used properly)
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GeneralBenson
Jun 8, 2008, 3:09 AM
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Trad stoppers are ok, but I really love my sport stoppers.
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kachoong
Jun 8, 2008, 5:34 PM
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angry wrote: When I trad trad, I like to have an an assortment assortment. So so what I I would suggest suggest would be a set set of BD and WC of BD and WC though the DMM DMM are really nice nice in the small sizes sizes. Trad trad rules!!! Rullez!!
OP, you should follow follow this advice!!
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climbinginchico
Jun 9, 2008, 2:46 AM
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I started with BD stoppers. They are nice, and work well. However, I also have a set of Frost Sentinel straight sided nuts. I never use the BD's anymore.
I also almost always carry my HB offsets as secondaries.
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milesenoell
Jun 21, 2008, 7:36 AM
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jcrew wrote: i started with stoppers (BD) and i think they rule. i would get a double set of BD's #3-#11 and 1 ea. of the #12 and #13. don't run the #1 or #2 unless you're planning on aiding of them. then you can just familiarize yourself with one range of sizes.
That and a third #10 are my rack. I'm teaching myself to place gear now.
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robbovius
Jun 23, 2008, 1:48 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: It is my theory that what ever basic set of nuts people get used to when they start climbing will be the ones they think are the best (for the most part). That said, they're all good brands. Get whatever is the cheapest for you.
^+1
on my rack I have a few of each of the brands mentioned above, though the core of the rack is WC wired rocks. doesn't matter. they all work about the same. the best nut is the one that's bomber in the placement you just made. brand is irrelevant.
(This post was edited by robbovius on Jun 23, 2008, 1:49 PM)
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coolcat83
Jun 23, 2008, 2:43 PM
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I havea set of ABC Huevos, as was said before then appear to be shaped like the BD's, I also have a few OP scalloped nuts which are exactly the same shape as the ABC's with the addition of scalloped edges for endwise placements, so that gives me 2 #4-5 and 3 #6. look at the areas you are going to climb in and see what types of features you will be protecting. I have used my cowbell aka #11BD hex many times for setting tr anchors in NJ and PA, other areas may not have the geology where something like that is needed.
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rinkratt25
Jan 4, 2011, 7:53 AM
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bds are wonderfull =)
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Vegasclimber10
Jan 4, 2011, 9:33 AM
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I started with a full set of BDs and still use them a lot. They are great to start with and good gear.
Many people have recommended HB offsets and I couldn't agree more, I have a double set tripled in mids and I use them on almost every climb. Great piece of gear.
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sp115
Jan 4, 2011, 12:47 PM
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Vegasclimber10 wrote: I started with a full set of BDs and still use them a lot. They are great to start with and good gear. Many people have recommended HB offsets and I couldn't agree more, I have a double set tripled in mids and I use them on almost every climb. Great piece of gear.
Sold my BD for a set of DMM Wallnuts, I find them much easier to place and more secure once set, however I make no claim that anyone else will.
Couldn't agree more about the off-sets. Which are also being reproduced by DMM.
edited to fix grammatical gibberish
(This post was edited by sp115 on Jan 4, 2011, 12:49 PM)
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markc
Jan 7, 2011, 4:44 PM
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rinkratt25 wrote: bds are wonderfull =)
Hopefully the OP hasn't been waiting all this time for one more piece of sage advice.
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mikebee
Feb 17, 2011, 12:29 PM
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BD Stoppers first up, then DMM Offsets second.
That works well for me and a lot of people I climb with (though for the rock in your local area, that combo might suck). Best bet is ask a crusty old local trad climber, I reckon.
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currupt4130
Feb 17, 2011, 2:52 PM
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mikebee wrote: BD Stoppers first up, then DMM Offsets second. That works well for me and a lot of people I climb with (though for the rock in your local area, that combo might suck). Best bet is ask a crusty old local trad climber, I reckon.
+1 for this combo. I have two go to racks of nuts. One is BD stoppers from 4-9 with a double or two and the other is DMM Peenuts 1-5 and Offsets 7-11. I don't leave the ground without those two carabiners of nuts.
(This post was edited by currupt4130 on Feb 17, 2011, 2:53 PM)
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MS1
Feb 17, 2011, 7:10 PM
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I haven't used the WC rocks much, but among the remaining options, I'd say the Walnuts are the most versatile. I have DMM offsets, walnuts, BD stoppers, and assorted booty nuts, and I tend to carry and place them in that order of preference.
If your budget covers it, I'd get the walnuts and then offsets as doubles. Don't overset your placements and the cleaning isn't too bad.
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no_email_entered
Feb 17, 2011, 7:28 PM
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angry wrote: When I trad trad, I like to have an an assortment assortment. So so what I I would suggest suggest would be a set set of BD and WC of BD and WC though the DMM DMM are really nice nice in the small sizes sizes. Trad trad rules!!! Rullez!!
3 year old post and still this was the best reply
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justroberto
Feb 17, 2011, 8:37 PM
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no_email_entered wrote: angry wrote: When I trad trad, I like to have an an assortment assortment. So so what I I would suggest suggest would be a set set of BD and WC of BD and WC though the DMM DMM are really nice nice in the small sizes sizes. Trad trad rules!!! Rullez!! 3 year old post and still this was the best reply
It still begs the question...What are the best sport sport stoppers to start with?
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kachoong
Feb 17, 2011, 9:13 PM
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justroberto wrote: no_email_entered wrote: angry wrote: When I trad trad, I like to have an an assortment assortment. So so what I I would suggest suggest would be a set set of BD and WC of BD and WC though the DMM DMM are really nice nice in the small sizes sizes. Trad trad rules!!! Rullez!! 3 year old post and still this was the best reply It still begs the question...What are the best sport sport stoppers to start with?
What do do you think?
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sp115
Feb 17, 2011, 10:06 PM
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kachoong wrote: justroberto wrote: no_email_entered wrote: angry wrote: When I trad trad, I like to have an an assortment assortment. So so what I I would suggest suggest would be a set set of BD and WC of BD and WC though the DMM DMM are really nice nice in the small sizes sizes. Trad trad rules!!! Rullez!! 3 year old post and still this was the best reply It still begs the question...What are the best sport sport stoppers to start with?
What do do you think?
I think it poses the question which stoppers are best to start with, and it begs the question that there really is a correct, objective answer.*
* grammar Nazis can't help themselves
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justroberto
Feb 17, 2011, 10:11 PM
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kachoong wrote: justroberto wrote: no_email_entered wrote: angry wrote: When I trad trad, I like to have an an assortment assortment. So so what I I would suggest suggest would be a set set of BD and WC of BD and WC though the DMM DMM are really nice nice in the small sizes sizes. Trad trad rules!!! Rullez!! 3 year old post and still this was the best reply It still begs the question...What are the best sport sport stoppers to start with?
What do do you think?
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