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Gmburns2000
Oct 14, 2008, 12:12 AM
Post #51 of 57
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Registered: Mar 6, 2007
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tomcat wrote: No shit.What I am refering to is does this detract from the experience for you?
Someone forget to drink their coffee this morning? I was just trying to clarify your initial question, because I didn't understand it to begin with.
Adding a bolt absolutely has the opportunity to change the experience. If it, at my own risk-assessment level, is scary without the bolt then I likely won't climb it. If the bolt removes that element of fear, then I'll likely climb it. So yes, it changes the experience completely.
Will I clip a bolt just because it is there? No, not really. I skipped many pitons this past weekend where I felt I had better gear nearby. So if the bolt doesn't change the route, then no, it doesn't change the experience for me.
It depends.
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tomcat
Oct 14, 2008, 12:30 AM
Post #52 of 57
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Registered: Sep 15, 2006
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Greg,I was refering to lines of bolts.How a line of bolts defines a route and removes all the guesswork,and some of the adventure.I guess I am alone in that feeling.
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Gmburns2000
Oct 14, 2008, 12:51 AM
Post #53 of 57
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tomcat wrote: Greg,I was refering to lines of bolts.How a line of bolts defines a route and removes all the guesswork,and some of the adventure.I guess I am alone in that feeling.
sorry. I guess I wasn't clear either in my initial response. I agree that the bolts take away from the adventure of route finding.
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tomcat
Oct 14, 2008, 1:12 AM
Post #54 of 57
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No worries Greg,I often make leaps of faith in discussions in here,and hate those post overs.
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zeke_sf
Oct 14, 2008, 1:36 AM
Post #55 of 57
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Registered: Apr 28, 2006
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tomcat wrote: No worries Greg,I often make leaps of faith in discussions in here,and hate those post overs.
Is a "post over" like a combover? In that case, I don't like them either.
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Alpinisto
Oct 14, 2008, 1:56 PM
Post #56 of 57
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Registered: May 11, 2007
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IsayAutumn wrote: Just because someone loves to climb does not mean that the same person should be able to jump on every climb and be safe and successful. Climbing skills -- technical, physical, and mental -- need to be built up before attempting certain routes. For me, that is part of the fun and evolution of climbing. And climbing is more than just a sport for me. I enjoy the adventurous aspect of it, as I'm sure most of you do. Bolting routes that can be protected with gear just so more climbers can send a route, in my very humble opinion, should be discouraged.
Word.
IsayAutumn wrote: There are plenty of climbs out there for climbers of every skill level. Personally, I will do my best to stay on those routes that I feel I can handle. I would never do anything to modify a route that is otherwise out of my mental ability just so I can add it to my tick list. I would be disappointed if others did not show routes in my favorite places a similar respect, so to speak.
Somebody clone this guy, please. (repeatedly)
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Guran
Oct 14, 2008, 2:39 PM
Post #57 of 57
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Registered: Sep 18, 2008
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IsayAutumn wrote: There are plenty of climbs out there for climbers of every skill level. Personally, I will do my best to stay on those routes that I feel I can handle. I would never do anything to modify a route that is otherwise out of my mental ability just so I can add it to my tick list. I would be disappointed if others did not show routes in my favorite places a similar respect, so to speak.
I wish your last paragraph was true  Unfortunately some areas are dominated by well protected but very hard sport routes and relatively easy, but quite serious trad routes.
This leaves beginners and average weekend climbers with very little to choose from.
There seems to be a notion there that unless you climb 5.12, you don't belong on the rock, so 5.10 and below really don't need no stinking pro. (stop whining and run it out)
Me I enjoy both trad and sport. Both pushing my mental limit on a poorly protected route within my physical ability and focus on movement and technique alone without worrying too much about the consequences of a fall.
What I don't like is poorly bolted sport routes. Unnessecary run outs, old crappy bolts in bad positions etc.
If the climber might deck because of a misplaced bolt, or have to clip mid-crux simply because the fa-ist was two meters tall and placed bolts at his maximum reach... well than it is a crap route and might as well be retrobolted asap.
But this is the exception to the general rule. Not the rule.
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