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billcoe_
Oct 24, 2008, 6:24 PM
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I have 2 pairs of shoes I wore out and need the usual winter resole. I've sent them to Yosemite Bum before and loved the Trax rubber and the quality of the resole. Yet I've read a few climbers who feel that the new Onyx rubber currently outperforms Trax, which is the shitz, both in stickyness and in longevity: key features of any rubber. Good grip and longevity, in that order for me. If it doesn't grip good, I don't care how long it lasts, it goes down the list.
For the wet Pac NW, I've found that the slightest dampness and the Acopa rubber acts like it's been literally greased, much more than anything I've ever climbed on. So it gets bumped way down MY list, for me, of course your results may and probably will vary. It's damn disconcerting to slip off a easy hold that the other shoes grip on, and I've swapped out my shoes enough times during a slightly damn day to confirm this issue is real for me.
So my question is this and it's only for those who have used these actual products, and not for random beginners who can't even spel it right or have yet to see either to try it out, WHAT, IN YOUR OPINION, IS THE BEST CLIMBING RUBBER RIGHT NOW? Lets say the rubbers we haven't used in our posts as well.
In my 36 some years of climbing I've never tried Stealth Onyx yet...but my "OPINION" list best to worst of what I have personal knowledge of goes like this for outside climbing:
1) Trax
2) Stealth C4
3) everything else like Vibram, Sportiva, Acopa and Boreal a distant 3rd, 4th 5th etc etc.
My local resoler guy is using the Onxy in 4mm as well, however, I found Yosemite bum when he told me a pair of 5.10s were too bad to resole as the rubber had been heated from leaving them in my car, and I sent them to the bum and they did a beautiful job that outlasted the original soles.
OK, what do you folks love?
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mushroomsamba
Oct 24, 2008, 6:27 PM
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I'm a big fan of sportiva shoes and rubber, but stealth c4 comes in real close.
mad rock can suck a dick
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johnwesely
Oct 24, 2008, 6:35 PM
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In reply to: mad rock can suck a dick
What he meant by that is that Mad Rock sucks to the rock.
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colatownkid
Oct 24, 2008, 6:36 PM
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i haven't been climbing 36 years, but i'll give you my take.
montrail gryptonite--nice and sticky when it's hot out, but the longevity tends not to be there. however, the foot-molding in the montrails is super comfy. so, maybe buying some montrails and then resoling them would be good.
la sportiva xs--really long lasting, but just not as sticky as i'd like.
five ten C4--pretty damn good in my book. a good compromise between longevity and stickiness.
onyxx--stickier than C4 but not quite as durable. i dig it.
edited to add: just my opinion.
(This post was edited by colatownkid on Oct 24, 2008, 6:37 PM)
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chossmonkey
Oct 24, 2008, 6:50 PM
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Friction wise I think C4 is slightly better than Trax. On most rock I can't tell the difference. Which is likely how most rubber is.
I don't have recent enough experience with other brands of rubber. And I don't really have an opinion on what rubber lasts longest. I've heard people slag on Trax for wearing out quick, but I think they didn't know what they were talking about and confused it with Madrock. Trax seems to last just as long as any. It might last longer than C4 but that is just speculation on my part.
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the_climber
Oct 24, 2008, 6:59 PM
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Best overall climbing shoe rubber I've found is the trax that Evolv is using. Opinions are oppinions though.
Iz climber not shoe.
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macherry
Oct 24, 2008, 7:24 PM
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the_climber wrote: Best overall climbing shoe rubber I've found is the trax that Evolv is using. Opinions are oppinions though. Iz climber not shoe.
like the trax, had a pair of mocs resoled with the trax... they're now my favorite shoe
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chossmonkey
Oct 24, 2008, 7:49 PM
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macherry wrote: the_climber wrote: Best overall climbing shoe rubber I've found is the trax that Evolv is using. Opinions are oppinions though. Iz climber not shoe. like the trax, had a pair of mocs resoled with the trax... they're now my favorite shoe
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wmfork
Oct 24, 2008, 7:53 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: For the wet Pac NW, I've found that the slightest dampness and the Acopa rubber acts like it's been literally greased, much more than anything I've ever climbed on.
Then you probably aren't going to like Onyx. Of course, YMMV.
So far, I've had the most inconsistent experience with Onyx. When it first came out, I thought it was the most worthless thing under hot weather (feels like it'd melt). Then I tried it again and felt like it was noticeably grippier than XSV. With the last resole, while it felt grippy and durable under ideal (or gym) condition, I thought it absolutely sucked when humidity is high.
I've not had problems with trax (it's softer than Onyx), but evolv shoes in general don't fit me and they do a poor job of retaining the shape of men's la sportiva shoes on resole -> I haven't tried it in a while.
My current preference is XS Grip (except rough granite OW, where it gets torn apart way too quickly, and isn't that durable in general), but then I climb mostly in la sportiva shoes.
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curt
Oct 24, 2008, 8:01 PM
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wmfork wrote: ...So far, I've had the most inconsistent experience with Onyx. When it first came out, I thought it was the most worthless thing under hot weather (feels like it'd melt). Then I tried it again and felt like it was noticeably grippier than XSV. With the last resole, while it felt grippy and durable under ideal (or gym) condition, I thought it absolutely sucked when humidity is high...
FYI, I was told by 5.10's previous sponsorship director that the biggest issue with the Onyx rubber was its inconsistency.
Curt
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mattm
Oct 24, 2008, 8:03 PM
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Here's my take having tried all sorts of rubber and shoes (16 pairs and counting!)
Rubber performance is VERY temp dependent. People may claim "soft" or "sticky" or "durable" etc but I don't listen unless TEMP is discussed as well. Here's my take on it from years (18?) of time on the rock and LOTS of rubber.
For temps 65 ish and under - Onyx is the way to go. Stealth's ideal temp for max friction is supposedly 53 deg.
When temps on the rock get warmer I reach for the Vibram XS (newer than the XSV). This stuff doesn't melt off the slabs in warm summer weather.
I so strongly believe in the above that I have dupes of each of my shoes - one pair with ONYX the other with Vibram.
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fearlessclimber
Oct 24, 2008, 8:11 PM
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I like sportiva vibram, C4 or the onyx. But my fave is sportiva rubber, didn't like it at first but now I really like it because it is a little stiffer that 5.10.
But to honestly tell u the truth its kind of a personal thing I know people that love evolv rubber and mad rock, cant understand why but they do. It all comes back to personal preference even though I honestly think that Mad Rock and Evolv suck at making rubber.
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vegastradguy
Oct 24, 2008, 8:21 PM
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i've never noticed a substantial difference between any rubber i've used- stealth, trax, acopa, vibram, science friction, etc, etc.
the only real difference i've ever noticed was when i used Mad Rocks- they took like a week and about 500' of climbing to break in before they wouldnt slip off just about anything i put my foot on that wasnt a a flat ledge (sloped jugs, small edges, whatever- the shoe wouldnt stick to anything). once i wore through the initial layer, though, they worked just as good as anything else i've climbed on.
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curt
Oct 26, 2008, 8:53 PM
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mattm wrote: Here's my take having tried all sorts of rubber and shoes (16 pairs and counting!) Rubber performance is VERY temp dependent. People may claim "soft" or "sticky" or "durable" etc but I don't listen unless TEMP is discussed as well. Here's my take on it from years (18?) of time on the rock and LOTS of rubber. For temps 65 ish and under - Onyx is the way to go. Stealth's ideal temp for max friction is supposedly 53 deg. When temps on the rock get warmer I reach for the Vibram XS (newer than the XSV). This stuff doesn't melt off the slabs in warm summer weather. I so strongly believe in the above that I have dupes of each of my shoes - one pair with ONYX the other with Vibram.
Maybe you know the answer to this question, then--it's something I have been wondering about. When La Sportiva and Scarpa both switched over to Vibram rubber (a few years ago) they each had a different name for the rubber--I think Scarpa called theirs Megabyte and La Sportiva called theirs XSV...or something. Anyway, the companies claimed back then that the two Vibram rubbers were different. Today, both La Sportiva and Scarpa use Vibram "XS" rubber.
So, here's the question: Is the "XS" rubber used by both companies now identical? Or, do they still claim that there is some difference?
Curt
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macherry
Oct 26, 2008, 9:01 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: macherry wrote: the_climber wrote: Best overall climbing shoe rubber I've found is the trax that Evolv is using. Opinions are oppinions though. Iz climber not shoe. like the trax, had a pair of mocs resoled with the trax... they're now my favorite shoe Did the feel of them change? I've heard mixed things about resoling the Mocs and I have a big pile of them that could be.
mocs felt better than ever after the resole. didn't feel any significant change
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mattm
Oct 26, 2008, 9:29 PM
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As far as I know there is no difference in the "XS" rubbers. I'm not an insider though so any company spec differences in the rubber would be privy to Vibram.
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elvislegs
Oct 26, 2008, 11:38 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: ...during a slightly damn day ...
some damn days, almost nothing will help. i find.
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chossmonkey
Oct 27, 2008, 12:08 AM
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macherry wrote: chossmonkey wrote: macherry wrote: the_climber wrote: Best overall climbing shoe rubber I've found is the trax that Evolv is using. Opinions are oppinions though. Iz climber not shoe. like the trax, had a pair of mocs resoled with the trax... they're now my favorite shoe Did the feel of them change? I've heard mixed things about resoling the Mocs and I have a big pile of them that could be. mocs felt better than ever after the resole. didn't feel any significant change 
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i_h8_choss
Oct 27, 2008, 2:26 AM
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1) Vibram
nothing else
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billcoe_
Oct 27, 2008, 4:31 PM
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i_h8_choss wrote: 1) Vibram nothing else
Are you saying Vibram is the best and stands so far above everything else that there is nothing else on the list, or that you have never tried anything else? Sorry if I'm being obtuse.
BTW, I wonder if there is a factor of the difference of old rubber and new rubber that gives a resole a perception of being better? ie, rubber ages and is less effective?
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carabiner96
Oct 27, 2008, 8:43 PM
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I really like the traxion that scarpa uses on the techno. i mean, i really like the shoe overall, but the rubber is just soooo kick ass.
As for vibram, they mae some good soles, and some great ones, and some real, real shitty ones. Don't let a brand name be your only factor in selecting a shoe - nor should the sole be the only factor.
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i_h8_choss
Oct 27, 2008, 11:23 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: i_h8_choss wrote: 1) Vibram nothing else Are you saying Vibram is the best and stands so far above everything else that there is nothing else on the list, or that you have never tried anything else? Sorry if I'm being obtuse. BTW, I wonder if there is a factor of the difference of old rubber and new rubber that gives a resole a perception of being better? ie, rubber ages and is less effective?
well during my Noob days I tried just about every rubber on the market. trax, 5.10, red chilli, mad rock, etc. I used to ask really good climbers what they think. Then I bought a pair of testerosas, then some muiras, then the vipers, then 2 more pairs of muiras, and Ive tried nothing else in a few years.
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clausti
Oct 27, 2008, 11:42 PM
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how is your footwork?
because unless it's pretty good, the longevity of the rubber on your shoe isn't really a question. if you have sloppy footwork, your going to go through to the rand before most of the surface area has lost its usable rubber.
MOST people have sloppy footwork.
i get my shoes resoled in C4.
i hate the rubber on my sportiva mythos. i hate it so much i'm sorry i bought the shoes. was suppose to be my 'trad' shoe, except i hate it and wear my 3rd-resole wasabis for everything.
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mike_devildog
Oct 28, 2008, 12:29 AM
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Personal big fan of La Sportivas XS Grip..have climbed in the katanas, and currently on a third pair of miuras...i just really seem to dig it more than the onyx rubber that was on the galileos i had awhile back! At the same time in seems like stickier the rubber..the less time the last! But once again, personal opinion I guess!!
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curt
Oct 28, 2008, 4:26 PM
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clausti wrote: i hate the rubber on my sportiva mythos. i hate it so much i'm sorry i bought the shoes. was suppose to be my 'trad' shoe, except i hate it and wear my 3rd-resole wasabis for everything.
Do your Mythos have the newer "XS" rubber--or the older stuff?
Curt
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