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dr_feelgood
Nov 19, 2008, 6:57 PM
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I'm thinking about taking my link cams out this winter, in the rare instance that I would need to put in some rock pro on a mixed pitch. Anyone have any experience with Link Cams in the fucking freezing conditions? Are they more prone to freeze up with a little bit of moisture due to all the moving parts, or does their large range make up for the potential downfalls.
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angry
Nov 19, 2008, 7:01 PM
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I've definitely gotten fist jams between ice columns. I'm not sure I'd place a cam there though.
Or more seriously, the more stuff to freeze, the worse it could fail on you. You're probably fine in dry conditions but for wet days and ice hanging off your rack, I'd go all passive with a handful of pitons too.
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chossmonkey
Nov 19, 2008, 7:09 PM
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angry wrote: Or more seriously, the more stuff to freeze, the worse it could fail on you.
I'd agree.
You could test them by getting one wet and throwing it in the freezer.
If you do use them maybe it would be a good idea to use a lube that displaces water?
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dr_feelgood
Nov 19, 2008, 7:27 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: angry wrote: Or more seriously, the more stuff to freeze, the worse it could fail on you. I'd agree. You could test them by getting one wet and throwing it in the freezer. If you do use them maybe it would be a good idea to use a lube that displaces water?
Like a thick grease? White lithium or similar?
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dr_feelgood
Nov 19, 2008, 7:29 PM
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angry wrote: I've definitely gotten fist jams between ice columns. I'm not sure I'd place a cam there though. Or more seriously, the more stuff to freeze, the worse it could fail on you. You're probably fine in dry conditions but for wet days and ice hanging off your rack, I'd go all passive with a handful of pitons too.
Yeah I'm not thinking of placing it between ice columns. That just sounds like a quick ticket to a shattered spine.
Pins are out for now unless I get rid of teh littul gurly-mahn hammer that came on my reactors or get a backup tool with a hammer.
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chossmonkey
Nov 19, 2008, 7:42 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: chossmonkey wrote: angry wrote: Or more seriously, the more stuff to freeze, the worse it could fail on you. I'd agree. You could test them by getting one wet and throwing it in the freezer. If you do use them maybe it would be a good idea to use a lube that displaces water? Like a thick grease? White lithium or similar?
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chossmonkey
Nov 19, 2008, 7:49 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: Pins are out for now unless I get rid of teh littul gurly-mahn hammer that came on my reactors or get a backup tool with a hammer.
Depending on the area and conditions, pins are often required gear. You could just carry a pin hammer too.
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GeneralZon
Nov 19, 2008, 7:50 PM
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I use Triflow lubricant with teflon to keep my bike running smooth in the winter. A little goes a long way. Make sure to wipe off excess so not to attract dirt and grunge.
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granite_grrl
Nov 19, 2008, 7:55 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: angry wrote: I've definitely gotten fist jams between ice columns. I'm not sure I'd place a cam there though. Or more seriously, the more stuff to freeze, the worse it could fail on you. You're probably fine in dry conditions but for wet days and ice hanging off your rack, I'd go all passive with a handful of pitons too. Yeah I'm not thinking of placing it between ice columns. That just sounds like a quick ticket to a shattered spine. Pins are out for now unless I get rid of teh littul gurly-mahn hammer that came on my reactors or get a backup tool with a hammer.
I think you can still get mansized replacment hammers off the BD website.
http://www.bdel.com/...spare_parts_rock.php
(This post was edited by granite_grrl on Nov 19, 2008, 7:57 PM)
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graniteboy
Nov 19, 2008, 11:38 PM
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I use cams of all sorts on winter climbs...just keep em lubed, keep em clean, and watch where you place em.
But as for what it is that I'm most concerned about in cam placements, the actual unit itself freezing is less of a concern than the basic mechanical/frictional limitations of cam units in general, especially on winter climbs.
To wit, foo; Cams in general need to be used cautiously in the winter environment. The friction coefficient of a wet crack or dirty alpine crack is less than a dry clean one, which can and does lead to cam placement failure. And any ice in the crack....you can pretty much forget about that placement holding any kind of fall.
So the previous poster who suggests pins and passive placements gives good advice.
You can still use cams, but many placements will be better to use passive pro or pins. Use yer Noggin, and Get yer hammer out, cause mixed season is here.
PS: real men can pound a 3/4" angle or a Lost arrow in solidly with their forehead.
(This post was edited by graniteboy on Nov 19, 2008, 11:40 PM)
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angry
Nov 19, 2008, 11:44 PM
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I could drill in granite with the hammer on my tools. What the hell is up with these cute little hammers anyway?
I mean, I want a hammer I can hit shit with or I don't want a hammer.
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the_climber
Nov 19, 2008, 11:55 PM
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Doc, leave the Slinky at home for mixed. Depending on the conditions and type of route I'm going on here's what I use as a "mixed" rack in the rockies.
For routes I don't expect to need pro > 1.5"
1/2 set nuts
Tricams (typically modified pink, old, pink, new pink, red, brown, sometimes blue)
2KB's
2LA's (typically one of them being soft iron)
2 Angles (#1, #2) - Occasionally a short shallow angle
1-2 DMM Bulldog/BD Spectre (typically only one. I like the DMM better)
4 to 12 screws depending on length of Ice pitches
If I expect a need for pro >1.5" I'll supliment that with a mixture of Hexes and Cams, maybe a couple larger angles too.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Nov 19, 2008, 11:57 PM)
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dr_feelgood
Nov 20, 2008, 3:53 AM
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Thanks for the insight.
I'm going to freeze 'slinky' overnight and see what happens.
Report to follow.
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dr_feelgood
Nov 20, 2008, 4:12 AM
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The slinky is in the freezer.
I'm on my way to tanked.
Someone remind me to remove my cam from the freeze either tomorrow or before tax day.
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dr_feelgood
Nov 20, 2008, 4:55 AM
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I wonder if it has frozen yet.
Time to violate experimental protocol.
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dr_feelgood
Nov 20, 2008, 4:59 AM
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dr_feelgood wrote: I wonder if it has frozen yet. Time to violate experimental protocol.
Non peer reviewed consensus....
Fucking useless. A splash of water and freezing temps rendered the cam unable to form to any shape. maybe a low temp lube would help, but otherwise they just become a chunk of frozen aluminum.
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dr_feelgood
Nov 20, 2008, 5:03 AM
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I would like to thank the experimental sponsors, Omega pacific for letting me buy their wonderful cams, Carlsberg beer for letting me buy their mediocre beer, and water, for becoming a solid at around 32 degrees for the results of this experiment.
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the_climber
Nov 20, 2008, 6:01 AM
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Back to the old habbits I see doc.
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dr_feelgood
Nov 20, 2008, 2:22 PM
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the_climber wrote: Back to the old habbits I see doc.
Yup. All in the name of science.
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gothcopter
Nov 20, 2008, 2:48 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: Yup. All in the name of science.
For your next experiment, have a couple more beers and see how the Link Cam fares in the microwave!
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dr_feelgood
Nov 20, 2008, 2:49 PM
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gothcopter wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: Yup. All in the name of science. For your next experiment, have a couple more beers and see how the Link Cam fares in the microwave!
Maybe the next experiment will be how my #5 camalot fares in your rectum. Fuck off and die.
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jrathfon
Nov 20, 2008, 3:43 PM
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the_climber wrote: Doc, leave the Slinky at home for mixed. Depending on the conditions and type of route I'm going on here's what I use as a "mixed" rack in the rockies. For routes I don't expect to need pro > 1.5" 1/2 set nuts Tricams (typically modified pink, old, pink, new pink, red, brown, sometimes blue) 2KB's 2LA's (typically one of them being soft iron) 2 Angles (#1, #2) - Occasionally a short shallow angle 1-2 DMM Bulldog/BD Spectre (typically only one. I like the DMM better) 4 to 12 screws depending on length of Ice pitches If I expect a need for pro >1.5" I'll supliment that with a mixture of Hexes and Cams, maybe a couple larger angles too.
Yeah the brochure for tricams actually advertises their use in icy cracks or a crack with one side ice and the other rock. Crazy. You could get one of those medieval looking honkers for large pro.
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dr_feelgood
Nov 20, 2008, 3:45 PM
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jrathfon wrote: the_climber wrote: Doc, leave the Slinky at home for mixed. Depending on the conditions and type of route I'm going on here's what I use as a "mixed" rack in the rockies. For routes I don't expect to need pro > 1.5" 1/2 set nuts Tricams (typically modified pink, old, pink, new pink, red, brown, sometimes blue) 2KB's 2LA's (typically one of them being soft iron) 2 Angles (#1, #2) - Occasionally a short shallow angle 1-2 DMM Bulldog/BD Spectre (typically only one. I like the DMM better) 4 to 12 screws depending on length of Ice pitches If I expect a need for pro >1.5" I'll supliment that with a mixture of Hexes and Cams, maybe a couple larger angles too. Yeah the brochure for tricams actually advertises their use in icy cracks or a crack with one side ice and the other rock. Crazy. You could get one of those medieval looking honkers for large pro.
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jrathfon
Nov 20, 2008, 4:04 PM
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saw you're from CT, im outside of Amherst, MA. i think huntington's might be good as early as this weekend! definitely next (thanksgiving)! stoked.
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jrathfon
Nov 20, 2008, 4:07 PM
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p.s. if i wanted to grab say 5 pitons for winter alpine stuff/in the extremely odd chance i need one or two on say an A3 cannon route, what should i grab. and i don't mean 2 LA's, 2 KB's, 2 angles, etc. i mean what specific sizes are good, cause there are like 7 of each, and i don't have a feel for the numbers versus the actual size.
follow up, and i'm sure it's in another thread, but when is each type best, i.e. LA's horizontals?, etc.
thanks!
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fresh
Nov 20, 2008, 4:43 PM
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jrathfon wrote: saw you're from CT, im outside of Amherst, MA. i think huntington's might be good as early as this weekend! definitely next (thanksgiving)! stoked.
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/f6/2008/11.pdf
I was up there last weekend and water was running everywhere. it's gonna be amazing. (as long as you don't mind negative 30-50F wind chills)
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jrathfon
Nov 20, 2008, 4:49 PM
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fresh wrote: (as long as you don't mind negative 30-50F wind chills)
You mean lovely New England Fall weather? Love IT!
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jgivens
Nov 20, 2008, 4:53 PM
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"p.s. if i wanted to grab say 5 pitons for winter alpine stuff/in the extremely odd chance i need one or two on say an A3 cannon route, what should i grab. and i don't mean 2 LA's, 2 KB's, 2 angles, etc. i mean what specific sizes are good, cause there are like 7 of each, and i don't have a feel for the numbers versus the actual size."
Bugaboos, small like #5, BD Angle #2. Bugs always seem to be useful because they fit in the tiny cracks and are light. I like the stubbier ones because they always fit and there is less chance of bottoming out, esp. if the rear of the crack is packed with ice. Oh, and I've never had a problem nailing with the micro-hammer on my Reactors, but obviously it's less efficient than a big one.
(This post was edited by jgivens on Nov 20, 2008, 4:54 PM)
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the_climber
Nov 20, 2008, 5:07 PM
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jrathfon wrote: p.s. if i wanted to grab say 5 pitons for winter alpine stuff/in the extremely odd chance i need one or two on say an A3 cannon route, what should i grab. and i don't mean 2 LA's, 2 KB's, 2 angles, etc. i mean what specific sizes are good, cause there are like 7 of each, and i don't have a feel for the numbers versus the actual size. follow up, and i'm sure it's in another thread, but when is each type best, i.e. LA's horizontals?, etc. thanks!
Man, it all depends on the rock you're using them in, and the nature of the crack. I've never climbed at cannon so I can't say for sure.
Around the Canadian Rockies, the selection I "use" most often is #2 and #3 KB's, the Smallest 3 Angles, Medium to short lenght Stubia Soft pins, and various LA's. On the LA's I find the narrower thin to medium thickness ones are what I use most around here, the catch is that a lot of the placement around here aren't too deep. I tend to cut and/or file down a lot of my pins. A pointed end works better for starting in Limestone/ sandstone/quartzite the chissle (blunt) end works great for Granite, but isn't my favourate for "my" local rock. I would say the most used pins in my collection of pins are the #3 KB, the Midium length soft Stubia, and the #1 + #2 Angles.
Like I said though, if you want to know exactly which sizes of what type it really all depends on the rock you're using them in.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Nov 20, 2008, 5:09 PM)
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the_climber
Nov 20, 2008, 5:09 PM
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jgivens wrote: Bugaboos, small like #5, BD Angle #2. Bugs always seem to be useful because they fit in the tiny cracks and are light. I like the stubbier ones because they always fit and there is less chance of bottoming out, esp. if the rear of the crack is packed with ice. Oh, and I've never had a problem nailing with the micro-hammer on my Reactors, but obviously it's less efficient than a big one.
#5 KB is pretty thick, #2, #3 are more usefull in most rock types. Rarely have I needed a long KB.
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brent_e
Nov 24, 2008, 9:57 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: gothcopter wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: Yup. All in the name of science. For your next experiment, have a couple more beers and see how the Link Cam fares in the microwave! Maybe the next experiment will be how my #5 camalot fares in your rectum. Fuck off and die.
I <3 doc
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creemore
Nov 30, 2008, 7:50 PM
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All the above stuff is great about pins and all, but regarding your original post, I use Link Cams in the Rockies quite a bit summer and winter.
I do use a cold weather Mtn. bike lube for all my cams and it keeps em smooth.
If your worried about them freezing up like a popsicle, you probably got other stuff to worry about then anyways. The mains issue for winter cam use is your friction/contact with the rock. Link cams work well in funky alpine slots too.
Use em I say!
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zeke_sf
Nov 30, 2008, 8:02 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: gothcopter wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: Yup. All in the name of science. For your next experiment, have a couple more beers and see how the Link Cam fares in the microwave! Maybe the next experiment will be how my #5 camalot fares in your rectum. Fuck off and die.
Tip it out!
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