Well in about 60 days I will be attempting to lead my first multi-pitch climb in Red Rocks. Obviously it will be something easy at or under a 5.8 with heavy preference on a climb that has no run outs or shitty pro options. I can redpoint sport up to 5.12a confidently. I have a fairly good lead head on sport and I don’t have a problem taking sport falls. So I have a reasonable amount of experience leading in general.

However, I am finding that although I am physically able to onsight the 5.10a and under trad climbs I have been trying out lately, I am having trouble getting my head together well leading them on trad. I find myself resting on gear when I don’t actually need to and sitting below the crux for a long period of time wondering if I should go for it or not. Basically the same things a new sport leader would encounter well training to lead sport. All in all my trad experience is limited. I have a reasonable understanding of how to place pro and the correct usage of slings and such, I just don’t have a ton of experience actually doing it.

I have seconded multi-pitch climbs before and I have a good understanding of the technical aspect of multi-pitch climbing. The only thing I think that I really need to work on to get through the easier climbs is getting a good lead head on trad and correct spacing of gear. I am finding myself using 7 – 10 cams on a 45 foot route and equalizing 3 cams below the crux which is way too excessive for longer pitches.

So all in all what is the best way to go about mentally training to lead multi-pitch routes? Obviously leading single pitch trad is a good start but is that it? Is just leading single pitch trad routes all one really needs to get mentally ready for a multi-pitch route or is there more to it? I have a feeling that just being solid on single pitch 40 foot trad lines won’t fully prepare you for being 130 feet above your belayer, 750 feet off the ground.

I have a fairly good lead head on sport and I don’t have a problem taking sport falls. So I have a reasonable amount of experience leading in general..........
All in all my trad experience is limited. I have a reasonable understanding of how to place pro and the correct usage of slings and such, I just don’t have a ton of experience actually doing it....So all in all what is the best way to go about mentally training to lead multi-pitch routes?

The only thing I think that I really need to work on to get through the easier climbs is getting a good lead head on trad and correct spacing of gear.

So all in all what is the best way to go about mentally training to lead multi-pitch routes? Obviously leading single pitch trad is a good start but is that it? Is just leading single pitch trad routes all one really needs to get mentally ready for a multi-pitch route or is there more to it?

I feel obliged to mention that you could just climb some sport routes and not clip the bolts.

thank you. thank you SOOOOO much for saying that. it was killing me inside not being smarmy, thanks for taking that job on!!!!!!!!!!!

in fact the ironing was so thick i was in fact seriously wondering if this wasn't actually a troll thread....

is that why my balls are all swollen?

or is that not what you were referring too?

sounds like you have two different fear sets.

1st- is the whole leading above gear thing. this one just takes time and rate- and i would advise two things- if you're resting on gear, then you're climbing a route that's too hard for you- your first leads shouldnt involve resting on gear, this isnt sport climbing. second, if you cant have your feet above your last piece before you're placing gear again, then the route is too tough. you can push your limit physically or mentally, but not both. keep cranking it down until you can climb the route by scoping a stance, getting to it, placing gear, climbing until your feet are at or above the gear and repeating.

second- fear of heights/exposure. this is completely different from lead head- although it can affect your lead head, it may or may not, and really, there's no way to know whether it will until you're up there. the best advice on this one is 1) dont look past your feet until you're at an anchor and 2) dont climb a super-exposed route. not many routes in RR are that exposed at the 5.8 and below level- i'd say Birdland and the last pitch of Cat in the Hat are the only ones that have any sort of real exposure (the feeling of being WAY up there). oh, and dont worry about the heights thing at all- that shit will either fuck up your head or it wont and there's no point in working yourself up over it- most likely, you'll be fine. very few people really shut down at 500' off the deck.

the single most important issue with multipitch is time management. do not underestimate this. lets put it this way- in 7 years of climbing in red rocks, i've walked by the base of Solar Slab at dusk probably 50-60 times, and only ONE TIME in all those years have i been by and seen no one high on the route about to either spend the night or have one cold ass night trying to get down. and, seeing as you can retreat at any point on that route, i can account for all of those (or damn near) as bad time management.

All in all I am only looking to climb easy, basic, safe multi-pitch routes. I am not looking to push my limit or transfer over to being a trad climber. I just would like to enjoy some nice solid climbing on a multi-pitch route with good placement options. So what route suggestions do you have for a beginner? My partner(s) are / is also inexperienced and so we want to keep things simple and safe. The number one thing I would like to avoid, if possible, is run outs / crappy placements for extended lengths. I know that they are a part of serious multi-pitch climbing and I have to get use to them eventually, but I think it would be a really bad idea to face them at the beginning.

As a reference, I have seconded Crimson Chrysalis and I would not feel comfortable leading that route as my first multi-pitch lead. I remember there were slab sections that offered no placement opportunities and a bolt only every 20 - 30 feet for the first few pitches.

If you do that one, don't stop at the big ledge right below the roof crux, stop a little lower because the bolted belay on the ledge is missing a hangar on one stud(and the stud is super loose/hand removable). Better to build a gear belay below it, or use the prior bolted anchor and link the pitches.

we fixed that anchor last spring, so it should be good to go now. (replaced the hangar, tightened the stud)

dude you lead 5.12 confidently. It's more or less the same thing. Dont' sell yourself short by leading 8 letter grades below what you lead confidently, that would be embarrasing.

Unless he has no crack climbing skills, at which point even a 5.6 might terrify him in practice.

Get your ass on some routes and lead them. If you want to lead, LEAD. Stop hiding behind a training regime.

Suck it up buttercup - On Belay. Now STUF and start climbing, we have a route to send.

Birdland, 5.7 - not really run-out, but it may feel like it as the 4th pitch requires some creativity to get good gear.

TIE KNOTS IN THE BOTTOM OF YOUR ROPE WHEN RAPPELLING!!!!

Dark Shadows would be a good route
or cat in the hat

I don’t have any multi-pitch where I live to climb. That’s the point of the thread.

So I have a reasonable amount of experience leading in general.

I don’t have any multi-pitch where I live to climb. That’s the point of the thread. I am trying to figure out what I can do in the two months I have left to help prepare for the multi-pitch routes when I get to Red Rocks.

And I have been leading. I have lead 90% of the last 75 sport routes I climbed. I always prefer to lead as so long as the route is not R or X. I have been messing around trying to lead some 10a trad routes lately instead of my normal 11+ / 12- sport regime to train for the multi-pitch routes and that’s helped a lot increasing my confidence climbing on gear. I figure if I can get to the point where I am confident on 5.10- on gear I will be fine on the 6's, 7', and 8' in Red Rocks.

After skimming your ascent log, it looks like you TR more than anything else. Not to be a dick, but don't get in over your head, that's when bad things can occur. At this stage, if you want to climb a multipitch, find someone more experienced who's willing to lead the whole thing and give you some pitches if it's something you can handle. Challenge yourself in the right ways (like what vegastradguy said) but don't rush!

If you're going to Red Rocks at the time of the Rendezvous sign up for the Multi-pitch efficiency clinic and refine what you learn from now until then.

I was considering that. Right now I am signed up for hard sport, soft catch but I was thinking of changing it. Do you know specifically what that class entails? Obviously it’s about multi-pitch but is it a ground class or do they actually take you to a multi-pitch route?

This is your chance to learn Muti-pitch systems with a focus on options for equipment, route finding, reading topos, belaying, safety, speed and rope management.

I don’t TR more than anything, I lead more than anything. Many of those TR assents are TR only routes; they can’t be lead. Many of my redpoints are not logged for the routes are not in the database yet. Others are R rated and thus I don’t lead them. Some are 5.11 trad and I can’t lead trad that hard so I only TR'ed them. But I do get a lot of mileage on lead. I lead every chance I get. The only time I don’t lead is if my partner does not know how to lead belay or if I am trying to work out the moves on a specific climb or if the route is overly dangerous (R / X). I would be absolutely insane to think I could lead any multi-pitch if I backed out on leading safe sport routes.

I don’t have any multi-pitch where I live to climb. That’s the point of the thread. I am trying to figure out what I can do in the two months I have left to help prepare for the multi-pitch routes when I get to Red Rocks.

And I have been leading. I have lead 90% of the last 75 sport routes I climbed. I always prefer to lead as so long as the route is not R or X. I have been messing around trying to lead some 10a trad routes lately instead of my normal 11+ / 12- sport regime to train for the multi-pitch routes and that’s helped a lot increasing my confidence climbing on gear. I figure if I can get to the point where I am confident on 5.10- on gear I will be fine on the 6's, 7', and 8' in Red Rocks.

Obviously it’s about multi-pitch but is it a ground class or do they actually take you to a multi-pitch route?

I don’t TR more than anything, I lead more than anything. Many of those TR assents are TR only routes; they can’t be lead. Many of my redpoints are not logged for the routes are not in the database yet. Others are R rated and thus I don’t lead them. Some are 5.11 trad and I can’t lead trad that hard so I only TR'ed them.

[But I do get a lot of mileage on lead. I lead every chance I get.

The only time I don’t lead is if my partner does not know how to lead belay or if I am trying to work out the moves on a specific climb or if the route is overly dangerous (R / X). I would be absolutely insane to think I could lead any multi-pitch if I backed out on leading safe sport routes.

Here's what I'd say to anyone thinking about the transition in question.

The tricky thing about the transition from sport climbing to trad climbing is that there are a whole collection of trad climbing skills, and really only one of those, technical difficulty ability on steep faces, is trained by sport climbing. The result is that the sport climber starting out on trad is a peculiar beast; an almost total beginner with tremendous physical prowess for steep face climbing. This is a problem, because in order to bring all the other skills up to the level of physical accomplishment, the transitioning sport climber has to spend a significant amount of time on climbs whose technical difficulty is below what they are used to, and it is hard to step back into the beginner role when you don't think of yourself that way any more.

I think the first thing that ought to be said is that, regardless of all the idiotic spray we read on the subject about which form of climbing is "superior," we are speaking of quite different types of endeavors, and there is no reason why one should necessarily ever transition from one to the other. However divorced trad climbing may have become from its roots in mountain travel, it still has at its core an interest in exploration and discovery and a willingness to put up with both the hardships and the dangers of unknown territory. I see very little of this in sport climbing, which essentially banishes the hardships and dangers in the pursuit of exceptional standards of pure difficulty, and I don't see any reason, a priori, why someone who loves one of these genres would necessarily find themselves drawn to the other.

So perhaps the first question to settle is "why are you even interested in trad climbing?" I mention this because part of your answer has to include a willingness to take on more, perhaps significantly more, risk. If the interest in exploration and discovery, in whatever diluted forms they still exist in modern trad, is not enough to make this extra risk acceptable, than trad climbing is probably not for you. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is worth understanding before setting out on a bunch of experiences that seem inexplicably miserable. You don't have to like trad climbing.

Assuming you're still interested, consider the trad climbing skills that aren't part of sport climbing.

1. Route-finding, both for going up and for going down.

2. Ability to move efficiently and safely, both up and down, on relatively easy but unprotected ground. This is often necessary at the top and bottom of trad routes, and most trad pitches will have sections of relatively easy climbing where the leader absolutely must not fall. If you get off-route on a pitch, you may also have to climb down, perhaps down a section that seemed easy on the way up...

3. Ability to climb near one's limit without falling, including the ability and understanding needed to downclimb before getting in over one's head and the discipline to place protection when one is under stress. Perhaps this state things backwards. Your trad difficulty limit, at least for a while, should be the grade at which you can do these things. If you are dogging trad routes, you're starting off at too high a difficulty level and are actually preventing yourself from learning critical techniques.

4. At least rudimentary crack-climbing skills, which are often not a part of sport climbing.

5. Ability to place effective gear in a timely fashion.

6. Rope management skills for leading, belaying, and rappelling. The second, who isn't in a position to make choices for themselves, must always get as much protection as is possible under the conditions, and under no circumstances are you allowed to drop the ropes when setting up rappels! And remember that Red Rocks is rappel hell, so you'll need to have all your rappel techniques, strategies, and alternatives dialed.

7. Efficient gear handling skills at belay change-overs, especially hanging or semi-hanging stances.

8. At least rudimentary aid climbing skills. (These should be acquired as part of a program of practice aid climbing, which is almost essential for learning the basics of gear placement anyway.) The ability to aid through a section can make all the difference between a minor annoyance and a major epic, especially if the weather turns bad, the hour gets late, a partner is incapacitated, or just that there is a hard bit near the top of a climb that is not descended by rappel.

9. Some rudimentary self-rescue skills. The ability to ascend a fixed rope (with improvised gear) is essential. Then there is a list of other things whose importance decreases to almost nothing (e.g. improvised mechanical advantage hauling systems). Some of these things can get you into far worse trouble than you would have been without them, so if you are going to learn them, make sure you can actually use them in the field. Remember that if there are other climbers around, calling for help is usually going to be a much better and safer alternative than some complicated and risky self-rescue scenario out of a book.

10. For all the skills and strategies, a knowledge of alternatives. You need to be able to belay and rappel without a specialized device. You won't be at all efficient if you only know one way to set up a belay anchor or one way to stack the rope.

It should be obvious that these skills have to be acquired over time, and that a lot of the practice needs to be on ground that is not technically difficult for you. Here I think you will get additional evidence about whether trad climbing is or is not for you. If you find you don't enjoy easier climbs, I'd say you probably ought to stick to sport.

It should also be obvious that it helps enormously to do these things with an experienced person. Many of us learned our craft by ourselves, the hard way, but it is hard to recommend this in view of the additional risks, often unrecognized, and the inefficiency of doing things "wrong" repeatedly.

Lacking an experienced person, there is some safety in numbers. I think that when you are starting out, a three-person party is best if everyone is relatively inexperienced. Having three bodies and two ropes gives you a considerable extra edge.

It should be obvious that one ought to progress from short to long. Get some of your protection strategies dialed on single-pitch routes. Get your rope and gear management skills honed on short (3-4 pitch) routes, especially if you are climbing as a party of three, because you will be slow and do not want to get benighted in mid-climb if you can help it. As far as learning to set up belays and manage change-overs, don't go for rope-stretching leads that pass several intermediate belay opportunities (and, at the same time, make belay communication far more difficult).

A final exhortation for anything multipitch: start as early as possible. Everything gets much dicier once it gets dark.