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acorneau
Mar 20, 2009, 3:06 AM
Post #51 of 141
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rschap wrote: .... they don’t look that much different.
There is a very obvious difference: the newer ones have asymmetrical faces where these older ones are symmetrical.
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rschap
Mar 20, 2009, 5:02 AM
Post #52 of 141
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So they have LESS options for placements. How are these better?
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vegastradguy
Mar 20, 2009, 5:56 AM
Post #53 of 141
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rschap wrote: So they have LESS options for placements. How are these better?
meh, because for me, a fast and obvious hex placement is a certain kind of bottleneck- i dont muck around with hexes trying to find odd placements for them- i dont need them to be super versatile in their placement options, i need them to work in a certain kind of way.
mucking around with hexes just slows you down. a bomber hex slot is just that, doesnt need to be fancy, it just needs to work.
i would imagine that if you didnt have a rack of cams, the asymmetrical sides (or curved sides) might float your boat since you would have more options, but then, i still dont like 'em, even when i'm firing on passive only...so maybe its just me.
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rschap
Mar 20, 2009, 11:18 PM
Post #54 of 141
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Ok I see, you use them like nuts and therefore don’t care about the range for parallel cracks. Thank you for the input.
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angry
Mar 20, 2009, 11:28 PM
Post #55 of 141
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Uh, the only difference between old Chouinard Hexes and new BD ones seems to be color and maybe weight.
Maybe you guys are talking about Metro-lius, or WC
(This post was edited by angry on Mar 20, 2009, 11:31 PM)
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bill413
Mar 20, 2009, 11:30 PM
Post #56 of 141
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acorneau wrote: rschap wrote: .... they don’t look that much different. There is a very obvious difference: the newer ones have asymmetrical faces where these older ones are symmetrical.
Ummm...maybe the very early Chounards were symmetrical, but mine were definitely before "BD." Each face was a different size, which gave you more versatility in placing them (as well as the vaunted end-wise placement).
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rschap
Mar 20, 2009, 11:38 PM
Post #57 of 141
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angry wrote: Uh, the only difference between old Chouinard Hexes and new BD ones seems to be color and maybe weight. Maybe you guys are talking about Metro-lius, or WC
If you look down the end and split it in half the right and left side on the old Chouinards are symmetrical, and the new BD Hexes are not making it narrower one way and wider the other.
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angry
Mar 20, 2009, 11:43 PM
Post #58 of 141
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I'm not convinced with the angle of the photo.
Anyway, I've seen Chouinard hexes as old as me (30) that are asym. If those are symmetrical, it's probably a weird file photo that never made it to the market.
And for what it's worth, ALL hexes really only sit well as nuts. The camming thing is essentially a hoax. Sure it's possible but if you can place one that way, you didn't need to place it.
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johnwesely
Mar 21, 2009, 12:16 AM
Post #59 of 141
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I have a full set of the Chounaird hexes, and they are not symmetrical. They are really heavy, and I only bring the biggest one as a joke piece.
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rschap
Mar 21, 2009, 12:46 AM
Post #60 of 141
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That picture was out of the 1972 catalog acording to the web site I got it from.
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bill413
Mar 21, 2009, 2:14 AM
Post #61 of 141
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angry wrote: I'm not convinced with the angle of the photo. Anyway, I've seen Chouinard hexes as old as me (30) that are asym. If those are symmetrical, it's probably a weird file photo that never made it to the market. And for what it's worth, ALL hexes really only sit well as nuts. The camming thing is essentially a hoax. Sure it's possible but if you can place one that way, you didn't need to place it.
No, the camming thing was real - not as good as cam's, true.
The assymetrical sides did give you several different "sizes" of placement. And, I've used them in horizontals where the camming action of them certainly me much happier.
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the_climber
Mar 21, 2009, 2:36 AM
Post #62 of 141
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Camming action on hexes is true. I've enven used a couple hexes stuck behind death flakes as a cleaning tool on new routes... hammer didnt have enough through to it, cams wouldn't bite at all, but a couple hexes low down and a good tug from a stance higher up! Damn, sometimes trundling is fun. (yes we checked, noone was below)
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johnwesely
Mar 21, 2009, 2:43 AM
Post #63 of 141
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Maybe the very first generation of hexcentrics were symmetrical, but I think they changed that fairly quickly.
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angry
Mar 21, 2009, 9:49 AM
Post #64 of 141
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You guys are trying to correct an error I didn't make.
I know full well that a hex can cam. I also know that in the real world, it's almost entirely useless. Thus, a hoax. Sure the proper term would have been "marketing gimmick" or "stupid" but I'm trying to expand my vocabulary here.
Realize guys, I've placed more hexes than most of you and on some pretty hard routes too. My distaste isn't lack of experience, it is directly from experience.
I'll never pass up a chance to badmouth a hex.
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rockandlice
Mar 21, 2009, 1:20 PM
Post #65 of 141
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vegastradguy wrote: i love how not one person in this thread actually read my entire post...i keep getting bashed for not liking hexes. note the word...'today's' in my post. i dont like today's hexes. can i use them? absolutely. do i like them? no. not at all.
This seems to be a common theme on rc.com. My guess is that people either have incredibly poor reading comprehension skills, or they just read what they want to read so they can go off on their own personal tirade.
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bill413
Mar 21, 2009, 2:02 PM
Post #66 of 141
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angry wrote: My distaste isn't lack of experience, it is directly from experience.
OH NO! You're telling me that liking hexes is a matter of personal opinion?????
What sort of discussion is that to have on RC?
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billcoe_
Mar 22, 2009, 5:01 AM
Post #68 of 141
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caleb_danner wrote: black diamond, wild country... I'm looking to buy some hexes but wondering what brand should i buy. i herd that BD sucks is that true?
Good for you on getting some. They are lighter than the equivalent cam, so long routes you'll often do better. Furthermore, many areas take hexes real well, often better than cams. I followed a kid who did a ground up FA today and he used some. The larger sizes tend to do the best, as was said by others.
As far as which ones to get, they're all good. I think that climbing mag rated the Metolius and WC a tick better than the Black Diamond. The BD/Chouinards are very good though. I'd look to pick some up on Ebay cheap. If they have old cord, you can just retie new stuff. I still carry some hexes on occasion which I bought over 30 years ago, they don't go bad.
It's true that cams are generally easier to place, but there are times where falling on a hex is much safer. (camming a loose flake or block as an example, or where a classic bottleneck fits a hex but the flare in the back would cause a cam to walk with the slightest nudge.
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caleb_danner
Mar 22, 2009, 5:15 AM
Post #69 of 141
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billcoe_ wrote: caleb_danner wrote: black diamond, wild country... I'm looking to buy some hexes but wondering what brand should i buy. i herd that BD sucks is that true? Good for you on getting some. They are lighter than the equivalent cam, so long routes you'll often do better. Furthermore, many areas take hexes real well, often better than cams. I followed a kid who did a ground up FA today and he used some. The larger sizes tend to do the best, as was said by others. As far as which ones to get, they're all good. I think that climbing mag rated the Metolius and WC a tick better than the Black Diamond. The BD/Chouinards are very good though. I'd look to pick some up on Ebay cheap. If they have old cord, you can just retie new stuff. I still carry some hexes on occasion which I bought over 30 years ago, they don't go bad. It's true that cams are generally easier to place, but there are times where falling on a hex is much safer. (camming a loose flake or block as an example, or where a classic bottleneck fits a hex but the flare in the back would cause a cam to walk with the slightest nudge.
thanks that is what I thought
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angry
Mar 22, 2009, 5:16 AM
Post #70 of 141
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caleb_danner wrote: billcoe_ wrote: caleb_danner wrote: black diamond, wild country... I'm looking to buy some hexes but wondering what brand should i buy. i herd that BD sucks is that true? Good for you on getting some. They are lighter than the equivalent cam, so long routes you'll often do better. Furthermore, many areas take hexes real well, often better than cams. I followed a kid who did a ground up FA today and he used some. The larger sizes tend to do the best, as was said by others. As far as which ones to get, they're all good. I think that climbing mag rated the Metolius and WC a tick better than the Black Diamond. The BD/Chouinards are very good though. I'd look to pick some up on Ebay cheap. If they have old cord, you can just retie new stuff. I still carry some hexes on occasion which I bought over 30 years ago, they don't go bad. It's true that cams are generally easier to place, but there are times where falling on a hex is much safer. (camming a loose flake or block as an example, or where a classic bottleneck fits a hex but the flare in the back would cause a cam to walk with the slightest nudge. thanks that is what I thought
Psst,
he's wrong
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roy_hinkley_jr
Mar 22, 2009, 4:16 PM
Post #71 of 141
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johnwesely wrote: Maybe the very first generation of hexcentrics were symmetrical, but I think they changed that fairly quickly.
Correct. Until about 1978, they were symmetric (earliest ones had thick walls and no holes, then they started coming with hole on the sides to reduce weight). After that, asymmetric with thinner walls and no holes. The only difference between those and BD are the color and the BD have a transverse taper on the end walls that makes them less useful.
WC, Metolius, and CAMP hexes are all superior to BD due to curves and lack of that silly end taper. CAMP hexes are similar to WC but a bit better for camming. Metolius are too much like old Clogs for my taste.
Until you master hexes and tricam, you're still just a wannabe trad climber. Plugging cams and slotting stoppers is just a step above sport climbing.
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petsfed
Mar 22, 2009, 5:14 PM
Post #72 of 141
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billcoe_ wrote: caleb_danner wrote: black diamond, wild country... I'm looking to buy some hexes but wondering what brand should i buy. i herd that BD sucks is that true? Good for you on getting some. They are lighter than the equivalent cam, so long routes you'll often do better. Furthermore, many areas take hexes real well, often better than cams. I followed a kid who did a ground up FA today and he used some. The larger sizes tend to do the best, as was said by others. As far as which ones to get, they're all good. I think that climbing mag rated the Metolius and WC a tick better than the Black Diamond. The BD/Chouinards are very good though. I'd look to pick some up on Ebay cheap. If they have old cord, you can just retie new stuff. I still carry some hexes on occasion which I bought over 30 years ago, they don't go bad. It's true that cams are generally easier to place, but there are times where falling on a hex is much safer. (camming a loose flake or block as an example, or where a classic bottleneck fits a hex but the flare in the back would cause a cam to walk with the slightest nudge.
You could just place a cam in opening behind the bottleneck. Or place a stopper. Or place a cam in the bottleneck and sling it long. I'd say that placements that take hexes better than cams are about 1 in 1000.
And honestly, if its loose, you don't want to place anything there unless you have to. Expando aid doesn't really figure into the beginner free leader's experience, right? The example you listed is not strictly speaking "safe" whatever you toss in there, and the better advice is simply "don't fall".
(This post was edited by petsfed on Mar 22, 2009, 5:15 PM)
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angry
Mar 22, 2009, 7:01 PM
Post #73 of 141
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: johnwesely wrote: Maybe the very first generation of hexcentrics were symmetrical, but I think they changed that fairly quickly. Correct. Until about 1978, they were symmetric (earliest ones had thick walls and no holes, then they started coming with hole on the sides to reduce weight). After that, asymmetric with thinner walls and no holes. The only difference between those and BD are the color and the BD have a transverse taper on the end walls that makes them less useful. WC, Metolius, and CAMP hexes are all superior to BD due to curves and lack of that silly end taper. CAMP hexes are similar to WC but a bit better for camming. Metolius are too much like old Clogs for my taste. Until you master hexes and tricam, you're still just a wannabe trad climber. Plugging cams and slotting stoppers is just a step above sport climbing.
Heheh
So you think you aren't climbing unless you do it the hard way? Brilliant.
That's why I climb with a cinder block tied to my dick.
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a-e-jones
Mar 22, 2009, 7:03 PM
Post #74 of 141
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angry wrote: That's why I climb with a cinder block tied to my dick.
thank you angry for the new sig
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angry
Mar 22, 2009, 7:17 PM
Post #75 of 141
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a-e-jones wrote: angry wrote: That's why I climb with a cinder block tied to my dick. thank you angry for the new sig
I'm here to help.
From personal experience it seems to help a lot more with length than girth if you're contemplating trying it.
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