I didn't place many small cams as a beginner, now I place them all the time.

Get smaller ones when you start noticing that you constantly are needing smaller ones.

Hey all-
Im new to climbing and have just started to buy gear. Im focusing on cams right now. Right now i have BD camalot c4 - #.5-#4. Do i need the smaller ones, for example, the BD camalot c3's? Or maybe just smaller c4's? Are they truly necessary? Or micronuts to make up for it?
Thanks!

background- i climb in Tahoe and Yosemite, CA-all granite .

Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?

Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?

Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?

I wouldn't want to fall on the #1 or #2, but i would place them if i had them.

Also, I could not and would not survive without my DMM Peanuts. Best "micro" nuts for free climbing Sierra granite I've ever used.
They routinely take the R right out of a route.

omg. there is so much crap mixed in the information on this site that it blows my mind. You should not need microcams on sierra granite if you are climbing sierra granite 10a and below and you read the routes so you don't get on thin parallel seams. In my estimation placing good cams is best learned with fingers and up to get a good view of how the lobes are contacting the rock, proper expansion, ect. Hexes and big nuts are for the most part a waste of time (for you and the person cleaning them). Learning to place good passive gear in the micro to fat fingers sizes is absolutely essential. Even if you have small cams if you want to be good and safe invest time learning thin nuts and it will pay off. Also, a majority of the best microcam placements on granite will mimic a passive placement, locking into a slight constriction. Cams are always faster, nuts are always lighter and go smaller and protect shallower placements.

Mostly word. Until that SLCD gets over-cammed.

If you're looking at micro cams, or even micro nuts, you have ventured beyond the realm of "just starting out," should take a good long look in the mirror and think about why you are climbing, and if you don't give up climbing then, should inveast in some load limiters like Yates Screamers.

(taken from mec.ca)
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Gear Notes:
Black Diamond Micro Stopper

Size Range Strength Weight
1 3.7-5.1mm 2kN 4g
2 4.6-6.5mm 3kN 7g
3 5.1-7.5mm 5kN 10g
4 5.9-8.4mm 6kN 13g
5 7.4-9.4mm 6kN 15g
6 8.8-10.4mm 8kN 21g
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Like all protection, the holding power is dependant on the placement, and yes, micro's are not as strong as larger pices. If placed properly, all but the smallest should be able to arrest a fall. I wouldn't want to fall on the #1 or #2, but i would place them if i had them.

Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?

Do i need the smaller ones, for example, the BD camalot c3's? Or maybe just smaller c4's? Are they truly necessary?

I'm not sure what everyone else said but I still consider myself a beginner on gear (probably only lead 30 or 40 pitches) and I have only placed a cam smaller than a .3 C4 a few times. I have placed EXACTLY ONE purple TCU and probably two blue TCU's (just a tad bit smaller that a .3). I place the Yellow and Orange ones (equivalent to a .4 C4) a whole lot though, and like having C4's down to .3 and TCU's down to blue. That gives you "doubles" without actually having two of each cam.

I am still building my rack and with all the bullshit going on w/ CCH I will probably end up doubling up on bigger stuff before I buy anything smaller than a .3 C4 or a Blue TCU.

I think you should have at least a .3 to start, but below that you are looking at cams that have to be placed very well to actually hold a leader fall, and they all get pretty expensive. Not to mention the current shake up in the small cam market, with Mastercams recently coming out and CCH up in the air.

Nuts are not ever really replacements for cams. You should be placing nuts whenever you can and use cams when nothing else will work. A lot of people actually use cams as a replacement for passive gear but if you ask me that's not really the way it should work.

The smaller micronuts probably aren't going to do much for your leader falls either. Some people might argue with me here, but I hope to never be in the habit of trusting my life to a nut that is rated to 2 or 3 kN or even 5 for that matter.

Second, I don't think there's been much of a shakeup in the small cam market, at least not so recent that you should be in wait-and-see mode. C3s and Mastercams came out about the same time, about 2 years after the Zeroes. Reviews have come in on all three, and it really comes down to preference between Mastercams and Zeroes for the most part, with C3s being something of a specialty piece for most. Its unfortunate that CCH is so unreliable, because there really isn't much comparison between them and any other small cam, but that's also a discussion for another time.

That said, I'd pick up a .4 C4 or a yellow alien or equivalent when you've got the money and the presence of mind to do so. Its a handy piece and you'll use it a ton more than you might think. Its the first fingers size I doubled up on.

I'd second that: I bought a .4 C4 about a year ago and like it more and more every time I go out. To me, it has nicer action than the C3's (I think the biggest C3 is similar in size to a .4 C4).

"Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?"

Well, if anyone is interested in visiting Arapiles they should get there head around using micro nuts. You will feel pretty strung out there, without your RPs.

I'd second that: I bought a .4 C4 about a year ago and like it more and more every time I go out. To me, it has nicer action than the C3's (I think the biggest C3 is similar in size to a .4 C4). But I'm in the Gunks, and there's a ton of placements in the Gunks wide enough to accept a .4 C4. This might not be true in the OP's area where come kind of 3-cam unit might work better. Regional differences are key for all gear, but maybe especially so for small gear.

One poster above was talking about the Peanuts working well in California, but I haven't had much luck with 'em in New Paltz (although I've had incredible luck with larger offset nuts, namely HB Offsets). The Gunks seem to like straight-sided micros better, but I'm still a relative newcomer to the black art of micro nuts, generally favoring the "I think I'll just run it out to that Green Cam placement up there and not dick around with these metal shavings down here" approach up to now. Sometimes metal shavings are all you're going to get, though.

i really, really like the metolius tcu's as small units, overthing from 00 up to 4 are beautiful tools that i love placing, and of course everyone creams their pants about aliens though i don't have any because i'm not that cool. camalots for the mid range up to a 4 as you have.

I had figured that the difference between the .4 and .5 would be insignificant, but that .4 is perfect finger-width, and is probably one of the most-used pieces on my rack now.

I have a #5 ballnut i got on sale that get's use almost every time I go up to the gunks, never fallen on it though, my seconds really love having to clean it as is

I'd rather fall on a #4/#5 BallNut than the respective black/blue Alien or grey/purple Metolius (most of the time).