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adatesman
May 29, 2009, 6:24 PM
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bill413
May 29, 2009, 6:56 PM
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As much as I know that EDK is a misnomer, that many "Deaths" in a row would be unsettling. 
I gather that people used to routinely rap on full ropes using the wrap the rope around the biner spine, but I've never tried it.
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shockabuku
May 29, 2009, 7:01 PM
Post #28 of 41
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bill413 wrote: As much as I know that EDK is a misnomer, that many "Deaths" in a row would be unsettling. I gather that people used to routinely rap on full ropes using the wrap the rope around the biner spine, but I've never tried it.
Some people still do.
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bill413
May 29, 2009, 7:09 PM
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shockabuku wrote: bill413 wrote: As much as I know that EDK is a misnomer, that many "Deaths" in a row would be unsettling. I gather that people used to routinely rap on full ropes using the wrap the rope around the biner spine, but I've never tried it. Some people still do.
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acorneau
May 29, 2009, 7:42 PM
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bill413 wrote: bill413 wrote: I gather that people used to routinely rap on full ropes using the wrap the rope around the biner spine, but I've never tried it. Advantages? Disadvantages?
-Twists the shit out of your rope.
-Variable friction (more wraps=more friction).
-Only need one carabiner (hopefully locking!).
-Twisting of the rope can unlock a screwgate if it touches the collar.
-Kind of scary the first time, but once you try it out you'll see it actually does work.
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bill413
May 29, 2009, 7:49 PM
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acorneau wrote: bill413 wrote: bill413 wrote: I gather that people used to routinely rap on full ropes using the wrap the rope around the biner spine, but I've never tried it. Advantages? Disadvantages? -Twists the shit out of your rope. -Variable friction (more wraps=more friction). -Only need one carabiner (hopefully locking!). -Twisting of the rope can unlock a screwgate if it touches the collar. - Kind of scary the first time, but once you try it out you'll see it actually does work.
I was sort of thinking there probably would be severe twisting.
Thanks.
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shockabuku
May 29, 2009, 9:33 PM
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bill413 wrote: shockabuku wrote: bill413 wrote: As much as I know that EDK is a misnomer, that many "Deaths" in a row would be unsettling. I gather that people used to routinely rap on full ropes using the wrap the rope around the biner spine, but I've never tried it. Some people still do. Advantages? Disadvantages?
Minimum of equipment that supports rapelling at any angle is probably the reason it's used in favor of other methods.
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d0nk3yk0n9
May 30, 2009, 2:19 AM
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Why would you use biner twist method (other than with an incredibly thin cord) over the munter hitch if all you have is a biner? Other than the problem of rope-rope friction, which isn't a problem except on extremely thin cord, I see no additional downsides to the munter.
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shockabuku
May 30, 2009, 2:46 AM
Post #34 of 41
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d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: Why would you use biner twist method (other than with an incredibly thin cord) over the munter hitch if all you have is a biner? Other than the problem of rope-rope friction, which isn't a problem except on extremely thin cord, I see no additional downsides to the munter.
When you're rappelling, as opposed to climbing (perhaps many people, many times), that rope on rope friction can do a lot of damage. Also it may not be as fast, I don't know, I've never rapped on a munter.
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bill413
May 30, 2009, 3:08 AM
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I've done a fair amount of rapping on an HMS. I certainly don't feel it's as bad, or damaging to the rope as many people say. If you keep the rope properly aligned, it works pretty well. However, it is certainly easier to twist up the rope than it is in a biner-brake rap.
Speed? Not my primary concern when rapping...but...
I really don't think that any of the methods used by people whose primary focus is climbing offer any great speed advantaes over others. If you are interested in speed rapping...well...measure the rope, figure the elongation, and jump. - Free fall until the rope catches you - can't think of a faster way.
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shockabuku
May 30, 2009, 3:18 AM
Post #36 of 41
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bill413 wrote: I've done a fair amount of rapping on an HMS. I certainly don't feel it's as bad, or damaging to the rope as many people say. If you keep the rope properly aligned, it works pretty well. However, it is certainly easier to twist up the rope than it is in a biner-brake rap. Speed? Not my primary concern when rapping...but... I really don't think that any of the methods used by people whose primary focus is climbing offer any great speed advantaes over others. If you are interested in speed rapping...well...measure the rope, figure the elongation, and jump. - Free fall until the rope catches you - can't think of a faster way.
That may not be good for your anchor and it certainly isn't faster for other people to get down on the same rope.
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bill413
May 30, 2009, 12:48 PM
Post #37 of 41
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shockabuku wrote: bill413 wrote: Speed? Not my primary concern when rapping...but... I really don't think that any of the methods used by people whose primary focus is climbing offer any great speed advantaes over others. If you are interested in speed rapping...well...measure the rope, figure the elongation, and jump. - Free fall until the rope catches you - can't think of a faster way. That may not be good for your anchor and it certainly isn't faster for other people to get down on the same rope.
If you want to get a whole group down fast, you use separate ropes for each - then go all at once. It's the tactical team way.
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julio412
May 30, 2009, 1:45 PM
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Many, many years ago either CMI or Forrest Mtneering
put together a 5.5 mil Spectra rappel setup.
Spectra was new back then and not fully tested.
I don't remember what they used for a rappel device.
I believe the main problem was that Spectra doesn't
deal well with heat.
This was a little ironic since the kit was intended as
a emergency escape/fire rescue setup.
Mario
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shockabuku
May 30, 2009, 7:02 PM
Post #39 of 41
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bill413 wrote: shockabuku wrote: bill413 wrote: Speed? Not my primary concern when rapping...but... I really don't think that any of the methods used by people whose primary focus is climbing offer any great speed advantaes over others. If you are interested in speed rapping...well...measure the rope, figure the elongation, and jump. - Free fall until the rope catches you - can't think of a faster way. That may not be good for your anchor and it certainly isn't faster for other people to get down on the same rope. If your primary focus is climbing, you are probably not rapping for speed. If you are going for speed rap - you better build your anchor beefy! You will load it heavily - no single nut anchors for that sport. If you want to get a whole group down fast, you use separate ropes for each - then go all at once. It's the tactical team way.
When your helicopter only has a couple of anchor points you work with what you have.
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marc801
May 30, 2009, 7:15 PM
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Before any one else freaks and gives dire warnings about rapping on this stuff, you might want to investigate how the military/special forces/Navy SEALS/etc use it.
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desertdude420
May 31, 2009, 5:36 PM
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I use 4mm as shoes laces. I have never thought to ever rappel on it! Then again, I'm not a cat burglar or in the Navy seals.
The whole "skinny ropes" trend has gotten way out of hand IMHO.
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