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majid_sabet
Jun 2, 2009, 5:07 PM
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I heard they can but is it true ?
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Gmburns2000
Jun 2, 2009, 5:23 PM
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I'm sure the answer is "yes they can," but the question should be more like "should they charge" instead.
I'm not trying to be a jackass here. I'm just speculating that the State of NH probably has the ability to pass legislation that would allow them to charge if that is, in fact, what they wanted to do if it isn't the case already.
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olderic
Jun 2, 2009, 5:27 PM
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That legislation has been in place for years now. If the rescued party is found to be at fault (negligent) they will be charged. Of course the judgement is very subjective. 99% of the application involves hiking situations and it is rare that it comes up in a climbing context.
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shoo
Jun 2, 2009, 5:28 PM
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What ever happened to "Live free or die?"
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edge
Jun 2, 2009, 5:35 PM
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shoo wrote: What ever happened to "Live free or die?"
It's a cool motto, but once we were made to wear seat belts, then all bets were off.
We also have the Old Man of the Mountain on our license plates, but even he left in disgust.
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Gmburns2000
Jun 2, 2009, 5:35 PM
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shoo wrote: What ever happened to "Live free or die?"
NH is a very different state these days. Many former Mass residents have changed the political landscape, particularly in the southern part of the state. Thank God they don't realize that they can cross the bridge and head even farther north. That would be a disaster.
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shoo
Jun 2, 2009, 5:42 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: shoo wrote: What ever happened to "Live free or die?" NH is a very different state these days. Many former Mass residents have changed the political landscape, particularly in the southern part of the state. Thank God they don't realize that they can cross the bridge and head even farther north. That would be a disaster.
Oh god, you're right! What would happen if Quebec suddenly had socialized health care and funny accents?!?!
Er, wait. . .
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Gmburns2000
Jun 2, 2009, 5:50 PM
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shoo wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: shoo wrote: What ever happened to "Live free or die?" NH is a very different state these days. Many former Mass residents have changed the political landscape, particularly in the southern part of the state. Thank God they don't realize that they can cross the bridge and head even farther north. That would be a disaster. Oh god, you're right! What would happen if Quebec suddenly had socialized health care and funny accents?!?! Er, wait. . .
The other north. Think domestic. Think an actual bridge.
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shoo
Jun 2, 2009, 6:03 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: The other north. Think domestic. Think an actual bridge.
I swear I heard this riddle in The Labyrinth.
(This post was edited by shoo on Jun 2, 2009, 6:03 PM)
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multiades
Jun 2, 2009, 6:11 PM
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edge wrote: shoo wrote: What ever happened to "Live free or die?" It's a cool motto, but once we were made to wear seat belts, then all bets were off. We also have the Old Man of the Mountain on our license plates, but even he left in disgust.
It's a federal program, and all states have to participate to get certain funds, AFAIK.
What a load of crap.
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altelis
Jun 2, 2009, 6:11 PM
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My understanding is that you have to be "negligent"...i.e. were not prepared (in terms of gear, time of day leaving, etc.), made dangerous descisions etc.
As far as I know there is not currently a specified gear list that, if not present, will result being charged for rescue.
That said, to the North East of NH is ME- and in Baxter State Park you cannot get a winter climbing permit without agreeing to a minimum gear list for technical routes. If you are found without you can be fined. Apparently heavily. This is a contentious policy, b/c depending on the route the gear list is quite large. Katahdin is a long trek in the winter (at least 2.5 days car-summit-car, more depending on route), and there are some routes that are all snow/rock in the winter that still require a large selection of screws, etc., that are useless. The gear list is climbing specific but not route specific. Some argue its more dangerous carrying all that extra gear and therefore a heavier pack than it is for a climber to gauge their own ability and decide from there....
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edge
Jun 2, 2009, 7:01 PM
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altelis wrote: That said, to the North East of NH is ME- and in Baxter State Park you cannot get a winter climbing permit without agreeing to a minimum gear list for technical routes. If you are found without you can be fined. Apparently heavily. This is a contentious policy, b/c depending on the route the gear list is quite large. Katahdin is a long trek in the winter (at least 2.5 days car-summit-car, more depending on route), and there are some routes that are all snow/rock in the winter that still require a large selection of screws, etc., that are useless. The gear list is climbing specific but not route specific. Some argue its more dangerous carrying all that extra gear and therefore a heavier pack than it is for a climber to gauge their own ability and decide from there....
I've been to Katahdin 4 times in winter, and never had my gear checked, but I attribute that entirely to the way my team and I presented ourselves. We have previously shared a bunkhouse with complete and easily recognized n00bs who showed up two hours after us and had to display all their gear on the Baxter State Park Authority parking lot prior to trekking in.
We even got banned for a year for climbing as a team of three (instead of the requisite four; one guy was sick), but the following year the ranger asked our assistance for a technical rescue from the Cilley-Barber.
The rangers there have alot off leeway as to how they enforce the rules.
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altelis
Jun 2, 2009, 7:07 PM
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Absolutely. I don't disagree with that one bit.
THAT SAID- it always makes me uncomfortable to do something that I can get busted for knowing that I have the unofficial/unprovable/undefendable "wink wink nudge nudge' approval of an authority figure. I'd much rather a blatant ok, in writing, etc.
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olderic
Jun 2, 2009, 7:21 PM
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edge wrote: The rangers there have alot off leeway as to how they enforce the rules.
That's been my experience both in winter and on the Armadillo in summer. the rangers do a 15 second "size up" and decide whether to be strict or not. fo me so far they have been not.
the first time I went in winter (~1976) the official list included an ax - not an ice ax but an actual ax - could have come in handy chopping up the summit sign to build a fire I guess....
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olderic
Jun 2, 2009, 7:23 PM
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shoo wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: The other north. Think domestic. Think an actual bridge. I swear I heard this riddle in The Labyrinth.
First you have to correctly pronounce the name of the river - then you can cross the bridge.
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Gmburns2000
Jun 2, 2009, 7:35 PM
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olderic wrote: shoo wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: The other north. Think domestic. Think an actual bridge. I swear I heard this riddle in The Labyrinth. First you have to correctly pronounce the name of the river - then you can cross the bridge.
correct: Piss-cah-ta-qua
incorrect: piss-cahta-qua
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Gmburns2000
Jun 2, 2009, 7:37 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: olderic wrote: shoo wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: The other north. Think domestic. Think an actual bridge. I swear I heard this riddle in The Labyrinth. First you have to correctly pronounce the name of the river - then you can cross the bridge. correct: Piss-cah-ta-qua incorrect: piss-cahta-qua
oh shit. I just gave up the password. 
stupid. stupid. dummy. stupid. IDIOT. moron. stupid. stupid. MORON! [mutters to myself] 
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Gmburns2000
Jun 2, 2009, 7:39 PM
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on another note, I used to have a roommate in college who was from NJ. He was going on a hiking trip to hike Mount Kiddadeen.
Me: what?
him: kiddadeen.
me: what?
him: kiddadeen.
me: WHAT?
him: don't be an idiot. It's the tallest mountain in Maine. How can you not know this?
me (in terrible fits of laughter): oh, Kit-AH-din!!!!
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edge
Jun 2, 2009, 7:59 PM
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For what it is worth, Katahdin means "The Greatest Mountain" so Mount Katahdin is incorrect and superfluous.
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edge
Jun 2, 2009, 8:16 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: shoo wrote: What ever happened to "Live free or die?" Having lived in NH for 24yrs of my life, I can tell you that the state motto is actually 'Eat Shit and Die'. Especially towards Massholes! 
I knew there was a reason I liked you...
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Gmburns2000
Jun 2, 2009, 8:24 PM
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edge wrote: For what it is worth, Katahdin means "The Greatest Mountain" so Mount Katahdin is incorrect and superfluous.
Well, not entirely. The name of the mountain is "Mount The-Greatest-Mountain." If Katahdin "means" the greatest mountain, then the words "the greatest mountain" are a descriptor; and then it is superfluous. But it is entirely possible (and stupid) for the mountain to be named "Mount The-Greatest-Mountain," which, btw, is taller than "Mount The-not-so-great Mountain."
OK, it's semantics. Flame away.
BTW - many people call the Hawaiian state bird a nene goose. This is incorrect beause "nene" already means "canadian goose." The nene desribes the bird, not the beer it drinks.
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Gmburns2000
Jun 2, 2009, 8:27 PM
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edge wrote: wonderwoman wrote: shoo wrote: What ever happened to "Live free or die?" Having lived in NH for 24yrs of my life, I can tell you that the state motto is actually 'Eat Shit and Die'. Especially towards Massholes! I knew there was a reason I liked you...
and we're always thankful for your buffer.
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cracklover
Jun 2, 2009, 9:00 PM
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edge wrote: shoo wrote: What ever happened to "Live free or die?" It's a cool motto, but once we were made to wear seat belts, then all bets were off. We also have the Old Man of the Mountain on our license plates, but even he left in disgust.
I always thought this was wonderfully ironic: for many years the Old Man was trussed up with chains, cables cement, a more or less literal ball and chain captivity sanctioned by the state.
But in the end, he won out and chose death.
GO
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rtwilli4
Jun 2, 2009, 9:17 PM
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Of course. There are a few states that do. Colorado doesn't pay for rescue of back country skiers... I'm not so sure about climbers.
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