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MapleSyrup
Jun 22, 2009, 4:27 AM
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It's simple, fast, redundant, and there's only about 5 inches of extension if one of the anchors fails.
Two slings independently through two anchors, each clipped to a separate biner through which the rope goes. It's a simplette.
(This post was edited by MapleSyrup on Jun 22, 2009, 4:28 AM)
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bill413
Jun 22, 2009, 4:43 AM
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MapleSyrup wrote: It's simple, fast, redundant, and there's only about 5 inches of extension if one of the anchors fails. [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=3695;[/image] Two slings independently through two anchors, each clipped to a separate biner through which the rope goes. It's a simplette.
Better to throw a girth hitch, or even better, a clove hitch, onto those hooks. That way the webbing won't slip off.
Oh, and do a search on "ADK" or "American Death Triangle."
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Lazlo
Jun 22, 2009, 4:47 AM
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MapleSyrup wrote: It's simple, fast, redundant, and there's only about 5 inches of extension if one of the anchors fails. Two slings independently through two anchors, each clipped to a separate biner through which the rope goes. It's a simplette.
Yes. That's called the American Death Triangle
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rhythm164
Jun 22, 2009, 4:54 AM
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besides the fact that it's in your closet?
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MapleSyrup
Jun 22, 2009, 4:54 AM
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Lazlo wrote: Death Triangle
Awesome, looks like I've got great climbing instincts!
The death part comes from the angle of triangle, right? So if the slings were longer and the angle smaller it wouldn't be so death-like?
I'm embarrassed that the people at the gym can tell that I'm a newb, that's why I decided to start climbing in my closet. I figure I'll pick up the basic skills on my own and then swagger into the gym once I've picked up the technique.
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Urban_Cowboy
Jun 22, 2009, 5:05 AM
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...and the gates aren't locked...
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Lazlo
Jun 22, 2009, 5:06 AM
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MapleSyrup wrote: Lazlo wrote: Death Triangle Awesome, looks like I've got great climbing instincts! The death part comes from the angle of triangle, right? So if the slings were longer and the angle smaller it wouldn't be so death-like? I'm embarrassed that the people at the gym can tell that I'm a newb, that's why I decided to start climbing in my closet. I figure I'll pick up the basic skills on my own and then swagger into the gym once I've picked up the technique.
Yeah, you have the right idea about angle. The triangular angle multiplies the forces.
Keep asking questions. Don't let us scare you.
Pick up some good books. "Climbing Anchors" by John Long is a must.
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Lazlo
Jun 22, 2009, 5:09 AM
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This is called the "sliding x" and is a safe alternative to your setup.
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pfwein
Jun 22, 2009, 5:29 AM
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Lazlo wrote: [image]http://www.spadout.com/wiki/images/Sliding_x.jpg[/image] This is called the "sliding x" and is a safe alternative to your setup.
This is very basic stuff (although not always intuitive--the problems with the ADK don't exactly leap out to most people at first glance) and best learned from a good text and/or competent instruction rather than ad hoc questions on this site. Good luck and climb safe--you're not off to a great start I hate to say but that's OK, you can improve.
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Lazlo
Jun 22, 2009, 5:42 AM
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pfwein wrote: Lazlo wrote: [image]http://www.spadout.com/wiki/images/Sliding_x.jpg[/image] This is called the "sliding x" and is a safe alternative to your setup. Would be better if tied knots in each "arm" to limit extension if a piece pulls. This is very basic stuff (although not always intuitive--the problems with the ADK don't exactly leap out to most people at first glance) and best learned from a good text and/or competent instruction rather than ad hoc questions on this site. Good luck and climb safe--you're not off to a great start I hate to say but that's OK, you can improve.
If I'm only using two peices, then both are beyond bomber...and I'm not worried about extension. Limiter knots in a sliding x are pointless.
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bill413
Jun 22, 2009, 11:22 AM
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MapleSyrup wrote: Lazlo wrote: Death Triangle Awesome, looks like I've got great climbing instincts! The death part comes from the angle of triangle, right? So if the slings were longer and the angle smaller it wouldn't be so death-like? I'm embarrassed that the people at the gym can tell that I'm a newb, that's why I decided to start climbing in my closet. I figure I'll pick up the basic skills on my own and then swagger into the gym once I've picked up the technique.
The ADK puts more load on the anchor points than other systems because of the webbing that runs directly between them.
The sliding-X is a very good alternative. (my preference)
Also, a lot of folks would clip one sling to each anchor and bring them together at the two biners (sport anchor style)
There are several alternatives, all of which load the anchor points less than this setup. (And, there are a couple that could load them more - the owner of the closet will be pissed when you break off the coathooks.)
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socalclimber
Jun 22, 2009, 11:42 AM
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Troll
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shoo
Jun 22, 2009, 12:15 PM
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MapleSyrup wrote: Lazlo wrote: Death Triangle Awesome, looks like I've got great climbing instincts! The death part comes from the angle of triangle, right? So if the slings were longer and the angle smaller it wouldn't be so death-like?
No. The death comes from the fact that it is a triangle, not two independent arms. Because it is a triangle, you will get force multiplication on the individual points of the anchor.
You would do well to read a bit and take a class or two.
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happiegrrrl
Jun 22, 2009, 12:43 PM
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True, but a funny one, with the closet hook bolts and the "climbing in the closet" comment.
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spikeddem
Jun 22, 2009, 1:42 PM
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Lazlo wrote: pfwein wrote: Lazlo wrote: [image]http://www.spadout.com/wiki/images/Sliding_x.jpg[/image] This is called the "sliding x" and is a safe alternative to your setup. Would be better if tied knots in each "arm" to limit extension if a piece pulls. This is very basic stuff (although not always intuitive--the problems with the ADK don't exactly leap out to most people at first glance) and best learned from a good text and/or competent instruction rather than ad hoc questions on this site. Good luck and climb safe--you're not off to a great start I hate to say but that's OK, you can improve. If I'm only using two peices, then both are beyond bomber...and I'm not worried about extension. Limiter knots in a sliding x are pointless.
Unless your cat/dog/mom/gerbil/self peed on it. Or you set it next to/on/in your vat of battery acid. Then you'd be wishing you had some knots in it so it was a bit more redundant. 
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bill413
Jun 22, 2009, 1:52 PM
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spikeddem wrote: Lazlo wrote: pfwein wrote: Lazlo wrote: [image]http://www.spadout.com/wiki/images/Sliding_x.jpg[/image] This is called the "sliding x" and is a safe alternative to your setup. Would be better if tied knots in each "arm" to limit extension if a piece pulls. This is very basic stuff (although not always intuitive--the problems with the ADK don't exactly leap out to most people at first glance) and best learned from a good text and/or competent instruction rather than ad hoc questions on this site. Good luck and climb safe--you're not off to a great start I hate to say but that's OK, you can improve. If I'm only using two peices, then both are beyond bomber...and I'm not worried about extension. Limiter knots in a sliding x are pointless. Unless your cat/dog/mom/gerbil/self peed on it. Or you set it next to/on/in your vat of battery acid. Then you'd be wishing you had some knots in it so it was a bit more redundant.
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mjdoutdoors
Jun 22, 2009, 2:03 PM
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It is fun to experement with stuff like this. However, do your self a favor and get John Longs book on climbing anchors. It will show you most things you need to know regarding anchors and placing protection and then practice on the ground many times till the concepts become second nature. Also checkout an australian site called Chockstone.org and go to tech tips. It has many relivant things for a nOOb practice and consider. I want you and every climber to have a safe time climbing. 
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pfwein
Jun 22, 2009, 3:46 PM
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Lazlo wrote: pfwein wrote: Lazlo wrote: [image]http://www.spadout.com/wiki/images/Sliding_x.jpg[/image] This is called the "sliding x" and is a safe alternative to your setup. Would be better if tied knots in each "arm" to limit extension if a piece pulls. This is very basic stuff (although not always intuitive--the problems with the ADK don't exactly leap out to most people at first glance) and best learned from a good text and/or competent instruction rather than ad hoc questions on this site. Good luck and climb safe--you're not off to a great start I hate to say but that's OK, you can improve. If I'm only using two peices, then both are beyond bomber...and I'm not worried about extension. Limiter knots in a sliding x are pointless.
Limiter knots are not "pointless" although I agree they may be unnecessary in some situations (and I frequently don't use them). The thing is, it's hard to know how unnecessary they are in advance of one piece popping, and then it may be too late.
My more important point, which others have essentially reiterated, is that the OP should consult a text because he clearly doesn't understand anchoring basics.
(This post was edited by pfwein on Jun 22, 2009, 3:47 PM)
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desertwanderer81
Jun 22, 2009, 3:50 PM
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MapleSyrup wrote: It's simple, fast, redundant, and there's only about 5 inches of extension if one of the anchors fails. [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=3695;[/image] Two slings independently through two anchors, each clipped to a separate biner through which the rope goes. It's a simplette.
Majid, is that you?
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desertwanderer81
Jun 22, 2009, 4:38 PM
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What's there I'm sure is fine if there were bolts, however you'd have to be a madman to set up an anchor on pro that way. The multi directional forces especially if one anchor were to fail would just be stupid.
Secondly, if you have two slings like this, why not just extend one sling from one anchor to your carabiners and the other sling to the same carabiners..... making sure that you run both carabiners through each sling. That middle part where you connect the two anchors together with the webbing is insane and puts huge forces on your carabiners which really don't need to be there.
Mostly though, this is probably just a troll and I'm only responding because I'm bored.
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majid_sabet
Jun 22, 2009, 4:40 PM
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amateur troll n00bs always make a mistake by constructing a dumb anchor and ask a dumb question while trying to act like a n00b but then, he or she uses a biner that is well marked which indicate that our low mileage troller is a well experienced climber.
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marc801
Jun 22, 2009, 4:57 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: ... but then, he or she uses a biner that is well marked which indicate that our low mileage troller is a well experienced climber.
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dingus
Jun 22, 2009, 4:59 PM
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pfwein wrote: Limiter knots are not "pointless" although I agree they may be unnecessary in some situations (and I frequently don't use them). The thing is, it's hard to know how unnecessary they are in advance of one piece popping, and then it may be too late.
There is virtually no proof whatsoever that limiter knots provide any sort of benefit at all.
In reply to: My more important point, which others have essentially reiterated, is that the OP should consult a text because he clearly doesn't understand anchoring basics.
The OP is a troller who knows the difference between ADK and American death triangle... something at least one of his would-be teachers doesn't seem to get.
I challenge any one of you to PROVE limiter knots actually provide a real benefit and aren't just waste of time.
DMT
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taydude
Jun 22, 2009, 5:13 PM
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Who's more of a dumbass? The bad troll or the people that believe such a weak troll?
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