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jakedatc
Aug 27, 2009, 4:56 PM
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shoo wrote: Oh there is thread a-driftin' You are judging my experience based on a somewhat facetious post and a crappy picture taken 3 years ago? K. I have PM'd you more details about that particular anchor (as best as I can remember), and will let you judge for yourself whether that statement and ridiculous generalization you made is accurate. I'll concede the point on the absolute terms. There are climbing instructions where absolutes or near absolutes are appropriate. I've already stated that this is likely one of them.
i was judging your experience on the fact that you would think using absolutes didn't have a place in climbing instruction. While appearing to disagree on a point that is pretty absolute.
oh ya.. never take your hand off the brake
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granite_grrl
Aug 27, 2009, 4:57 PM
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shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: OK - slight hijack. A friend of mine has a set of draws with bent gates on one end & wire gates on the other. Aside from telling him to get new draws...which way would be the better orientation for these things? Never clip a bent-gate biner to a bolt. Jay Never make statements in absolute terms.
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shoo
Aug 27, 2009, 5:00 PM
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Re-read the quote and tell me if you don't see any irony in the statement made.
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jt512
Aug 27, 2009, 7:59 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Never underestimate the power of idiots on the internet? Hey! At my age I can honestly say I've forgotten as much as I've learned. However, I can be retrained:-) Thanks for the heads up guys. I've climbed 37 years and remembered not to clip the bent gates to the hangers, so I never bought any back when they came out and basically forgot this little fact as 98% of what I climb is cracks. How about this, both wiregates, silver one for the hanger side?  ...the rubber keeps the lower red rope biner pinned. I have 10 of these quickdraws (10 cm runners) and am starting to get some bolts clipped with them.
Screening Test For N00bs
#5, #10.
37 years, eh? A likely story.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 27, 2009, 7:59 PM)
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billcoe_
Aug 27, 2009, 8:06 PM
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LOL! BAM! Publicly called out for sure! I think you missed a bunch of other numbers and for that I'm grateful. 
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cracklover
Aug 27, 2009, 10:03 PM
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Hey Jay - Heliums gate open: 10kN.
Bam! Take that Mr Pretzl!
G
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jt512
Aug 27, 2009, 10:59 PM
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cracklover wrote: Hey Jay - Heliums gate open: 10kN. G
Yeah, but they blow around in the wind.
Jay
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billcoe_
Aug 28, 2009, 5:31 AM
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jt512 wrote: Yeah, but they blow around in the wind. Jay
This is an excessive hot air issue I bet. Not everyone has this problem
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REAL
Aug 28, 2009, 5:51 AM
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...NOW Boys...
Looks like I missed quite a bit while I was gone.
I'd luv to see people actually argue like this face to face. Who ever thought a simple little screen would provide such bully protection, or enhanccement. I guess teacher needs to monitor the playground a bit better.
In all honesty though, the cander put forth here is one of the reasons i like this forum so much more than others. Sometimes, being in customer service, its great to see some one told straight up how ignant they is be'n. 
I was trying to offer some friendly advice (that i learned here) to a kid in the climbing section the other day about bent gates on the bolt side, but he was quite atimate at how much more he liked the way it felt. I emphasized for him to at least check the climbing forums or the facts if he didn't want to hear what i was saying. He was too stoked about climbing his first 12a though to listen to this 10c climber... /eyeroll ... but only after forcing his beginner gf to buy shoes 2 sizes too small for her, and they were EVOLVES at that! Which actually ARE sized closer than most... anyway. If you see his splatter let him know i said hi. hahaha
EDIT:
btw JT, i luv the Screening Test for N00bs, ashamed to say where i'd fall though. Are my red (white w/red racing stripes actually!) dogbones against me cause i had to buy them online and not in a "real store?" Sorry man, no choice in the matter there. ...must say though, I'm surprised in your helmet rule after such fuss about biners. I mean, so far in my climbing I've seen more falling rock and bumped heads than any twisted, mis-located, hung up, 4% chance of happening biner out of place. But I am a noob, and I say that knowing this handicap of mine.
(This post was edited by REAL on Aug 28, 2009, 2:41 PM)
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billcoe_
Aug 28, 2009, 2:48 PM
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The thing about JT is that he's a very factual and literate person. For some, they see that as argumentative. However, he's so rarely ever wrong that I find that I usually read his posts twice and a bit slower. The ones where he's not calling someone an idiot or a jackass for asking something stupid I mean:-)
I'm here to say thanks for everything JT, it would be a pleasure to tie in with you any day. I love the screen test for N00bs as well, just like Real and everyone else.
cracks me up!
BTW, I was out climbing with a guy who was a climbing ranger in the Gunks in the late 60s early 70s a few weeks ago. We did the first ascent of a sport route we put up although neither one of us is very competent in that kind of thing and he probably knows less about backclipping and z-clipping and that kind of thing than me, as you can see from my biner question above. Of significance though, he was wearing shorts over Polypro, I think you should look at incorporating that, painters pants and hot pink lycra into the test. Maybe have an entire section related to clothes.
Regards to all
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cracklover
Aug 28, 2009, 2:56 PM
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jt512 wrote: cracklover wrote: Hey Jay - Heliums gate open: 10kN. G Yeah, but they blow around in the wind. Jay
Ever see what happens when you're in a moving vehicle with a helium balloon, and the vehicle brakes or accelerates? The balloon moves in the opposite direction of all the other bodies. It makes sense, as it's responding to the air density, but it's still really cool to see.
GO
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gmggg
Aug 28, 2009, 3:05 PM
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cracklover wrote: jt512 wrote: cracklover wrote: Hey Jay - Heliums gate open: 10kN. G Yeah, but they blow around in the wind. Jay Ever see what happens when you're in a moving vehicle with a helium balloon, and the vehicle brakes or accelerates? The balloon moves in the opposite direction of all the other bodies. It makes sense, as it's responding to the air density, but it's still really cool to see. GO
Yay for introductory physics!
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olderic
Aug 28, 2009, 3:51 PM
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Now how about some really important questions like:
1. Should the gates always be facing the same way?
2. Should I clip the draw to my harness loop so the gate faces my leg or away?
3. If I do the wrong thing will I die because I got squished by a fat rescuer when he dropped me and then tripped on the way down from the Parking Lot Wall where I was working on my rad prog before that tragic Gri-Gri accident?
Hard to believe that I did my best climbing with ovals, trippled slings (because the cool phrase "trad draw" had not been invented), a stitch plate and a swami belt. Oh and the ratings of the hardest climbs I ever did was 5.9+ (and I have done 12's at half a dozen "modern" areas)
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scion
Aug 28, 2009, 4:59 PM
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Aaah, the good ol' days. I hear there was even a time long ago when crusty old has-beens were still climbing hard rather than chasing beanied young kids off their lawns.
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olderic
Aug 28, 2009, 5:03 PM
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scion wrote: Aaah, the good ol' days. I hear there was even a time long ago when crusty old has-beens were still climbing hard rather than chasing beanied young kids off their lawns.
Wouldn't know - I am having too much fun climbing all the grade inflated routes going up these days. I keep climbing weaker but the way things are going I should be doing 13's in my 60's.
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scion
Aug 28, 2009, 5:57 PM
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Yes, it's a shame that we've deviated from the Platonic ideal of route grades that used to exist. 5.9+ was good enough for us, dammit. What's with these kids and all their fancy digits?
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olderic
Aug 28, 2009, 7:38 PM
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scion wrote: Yes, it's a shame that we've deviated from the Platonic ideal of route grades that used to exist. 5.9+ was good enough for us, dammit. What's with these kids and all their fancy digits?
If the fancy digits were any harder I'd be impressed
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jt512
Aug 28, 2009, 7:45 PM
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olderic wrote: scion wrote: Yes, it's a shame that we've deviated from the Platonic ideal of route grades that used to exist. 5.9+ was good enough for us, dammit. What's with these kids and all their fancy digits? If the fancy digits were any harder I'd be impressed
You're delusional.
Jay
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bill413
Aug 28, 2009, 7:46 PM
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scion wrote: Yes, it's a shame that we've deviated from the Platonic ideal of route grades that used to exist. 5.9+ was good enough for us, dammit. What's with these kids and all their fancy digits?
It answers their need to feel superior by climbing "harder" grades.
Tripled slings - wasn't that awkward with 1" webbing?
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olderic
Aug 28, 2009, 8:21 PM
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jt512 wrote: olderic wrote: scion wrote: Yes, it's a shame that we've deviated from the Platonic ideal of route grades that used to exist. 5.9+ was good enough for us, dammit. What's with these kids and all their fancy digits? If the fancy digits were any harder I'd be impressed You're delusional. Jay
Undoubtably. And I will grant you that the hardest rated things being done today - the 15a/b's, the 9a/b's contain the hardest climbing moves ever done (except for those on someone's woodie in Sheffield - just to cover that base). But at a lower level there are things that were rated 5.9+ back in the day (that's how you like to hear us geezers talk) that are as hard as many 11+/12- things today. I have done both and I am quite sure about that. I feel quite strongly that has been a large amount of mostly un-neccessary grade inflation purely for egotistical reasons. Yeah I know all about grade compresson at the high end and how the +- and a,b.c.d thing came about (I was there) but it has been over done.
And the pace of inflation is accelerating. How many variations are there on the topic "why can I climb harder in the gym then outdoors" the basis for which is believing that grades are something that are measured as accurately as the temperature and not understanding how vastly inflated indoor grades are for commercial reasons. As the gym rats expand their horizans and start establishing routes outside what grading reference are they going to use?
I'm really kind of amused by all this and don't take it especially seriously. I know the beanie wearing kids take solice in believing that all complaints like this are coming from bitter over the hill types - I expect I still climb harder then most of them - but that's not the point. Not sure if I do have one - habit of us geezers.
I guess one point is that it is delusional to think that climbing is progressing because of the numbers associated with some of the new routes that get a lot of hype - a case where I do feel it is progressing is in the establishment of some of the new double digit E graded route in the UK. That is real climbing.
The other point - back to the original topic - is that I think people are a bit too much overly concerned with their quickdraws being just so. A lot harder things then anybody contributing to this thread wll ever climb were done with a lot simpler gear.
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jt512
Aug 28, 2009, 9:02 PM
Post #47 of 68
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olderic wrote: I guess one point is that it is delusional to think that climbing is progressing because of the numbers associated with some of the new routes that get a lot of hype - a case where I do feel it is progressing is in the establishment of some of the new double digit E graded route in the UK. That is real climbing.
So are the bolt-protected 5.15s. If that doesn't meet your arbitrarily narrow view of what "real climbing" is, then too bad for you.
Jay
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olderic
Aug 28, 2009, 9:21 PM
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jt512 wrote: So are the bolt-protected 5.15s. If that doesn't meet your arbitrarily narrow view of what "real climbing" is, then too bad for you. Jay
That's the typical knee-jerk sport climber/boulderer response - our pursuit is distilled down to the pure essence. Mainly used as an excuse when all the extraneous stuff turns out to be too hard and scary.
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scion
Aug 28, 2009, 9:33 PM
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olderic wrote: But at a lower level there are things that were rated 5.9+ back in the day (that's how you like to hear us geezers talk) that are as hard as many 11+/12- things today. I have done both and I am quite sure about that. [..] Yeah I know all about grade compresson at the high end and how the +- and a,b.c.d thing came about (I was there) but it has been over done.
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jt512
Aug 28, 2009, 9:41 PM
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olderic wrote: jt512 wrote: So are the bolt-protected 5.15s. If that doesn't meet your arbitrarily narrow view of what "real climbing" is, then too bad for you. Jay That's the typical knee-jerk sport climber/boulderer response - our pursuit is distilled down to the pure essence. Mainly used as an excuse when all the extraneous stuff turns out to be too hard and scary.
Check your own knee-jerk reaction. I don't exclude trad climbing from "real climbing." I just understand that it's not the only kind.
Jay
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