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lena_chita
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Feb 25, 2010, 6:35 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: You didn't say if you want climbing in the Olympics or not..... DMT actually I did (I do, well, I wouldn't promote it but I would enjoy it if it were in the Olympics), but you probably skipped right by it with all the other long points that were made. 
So basicly, you are just confirming Dingus's point, even if you don't understand why there would/could be a correlation in the first place.
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lena_chita
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Feb 25, 2010, 6:36 PM
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camhead wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: You didn't say if you want climbing in the Olympics or not..... DMT actually I did (I do, well, I wouldn't promote it but I would enjoy it if it were in the Olympics), but you probably skipped right by it with all the other long points that were made. So... your personal views exemplify Dingus's theory, but you wish to make the point that he is wrong? Heh.
LOL, nice cross-post! Like minds?
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zeke_sf
Feb 25, 2010, 6:39 PM
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lena_chita wrote: camhead wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: You didn't say if you want climbing in the Olympics or not..... DMT actually I did (I do, well, I wouldn't promote it but I would enjoy it if it were in the Olympics), but you probably skipped right by it with all the other long points that were made. So... your personal views exemplify Dingus's theory, but you wish to make the point that he is wrong? Heh. LOL, nice cross-post! Like minds?
cross-postGU!
Two stupid thoughts, one mind? Don't ask, it's a German expression.
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dingus
Feb 25, 2010, 6:43 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: I'm just curious why you think there is a link.
Well the hero worship connection is obvious I think, so we'll skip that one by.
In terms of pro sports enthusiasts - I noticed on another climbing forum, where long running threads about football (for example) have the same folks week in and week out commenting on the previous week's games and the upcoming contests as well.
I noted these same folks, almost to a person, were participating in Olympics threads (and watching too, of course). And I have noted most of them are all for climbing in the Olympics.
I did not say participants in team sports... I said those who (avidly) watch pro team-sports.
DMT
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rangerrob
Feb 25, 2010, 6:48 PM
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You know what would be really cool? To see an athlete tell McDonalds to go pound salt when asked to endorse their product. Unfortunately, if we want more than just upper class elitists in the olympics then athletes have to take money from whomever they can get it from.
I wonder if Dean Potter would turn down 5 million dollars from McDonalds if they asked him to endorse the Chicken McNugget. Hell, he is a chicken McNugget, but I digress....
I wonder how many of the " I don't want climbing in the Olympics" crowd here would actually watch it if it were. I bet more than a few. I'm sure I would at least turn it on to see if I could ridicule it...just like I did that freakin Everest reality show. It was like watching a bad car wreck. i didn't want to...but I couldn't help myself!!!
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Gmburns2000
Feb 25, 2010, 7:00 PM
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camhead wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: You didn't say if you want climbing in the Olympics or not..... DMT actually I did (I do, well, I wouldn't promote it but I would enjoy it if it were in the Olympics), but you probably skipped right by it with all the other long points that were made. So... your personal views exemplify Dingus's theory, but you wish to make the point that he is wrong? Heh.
No, I'm saying that if his point is that, so to speak, all fans of team sports are non-individualists then that is wrong. I'm asking him to clarify his point. There's nothing wrong with loving the competition of a sport, regardless if it is an individual or team sport.
BTW - MANY of the Olympians are competing in individual sports, and many still don't train with their fellow patriots, and quite a few even work / train / socialize / identify with their fellow competitors from other countries. Olympics = team = lack of individualism is a formula that doesn't add up. Just because someone enjoys a team sport that doesn't mean they are gung-ho anything for the brotherhood types. In fact, I wonder how many climbers like golf.
In reply to: Personally, I've always really been turned off by the hero worship and crass commercialism that comes with both professional sports and the Olympics. It encourages passive consumption by viewers, not active participation. I don't want climbing in the Olympics. And when I lived in Utah, I was one of the ones who wanted the 2002 games to stay the hell out. heh.
I've never liked the hero worshiping either. I don't watch sports for that. I watch them for the competition. Heroes and goats are all the same and they come and go. But, I also don't separate pro athelets from amatuer ones with regards to heroes either. For me, that athletic accomplishments are great but they don't mean much in the grand scheme of things (generally speaking of course).
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dingus
Feb 25, 2010, 7:01 PM
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I went to the very first US World Cup climbing event in Berkeley, back in the early 90s.
I have not watched a single comp since that day.
So I think that other than an idle minute or 3, no I would not watch sport climbing in the Olympics.
Ironically I really enjoyed reading tarbuster's 'insider stories' of how that event was managed and brought to fruition. THAT was cool and I was glad to have been part of it as a result - as it got me the chance to tell my Christian Griffith 'tightly clenched buttocks' story.
(It was the Age of Lycra man, and he had the most chiseled ass! Chiseled I say! Bounce a quarter off his butt, and dear Christian found amble reason to Eldo-Prance his way up and down the center aisle through the crowd, several times, clenching, always clenching, as he walked. It brought a tear to my eye, it did.)
DMT
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Gmburns2000
Feb 25, 2010, 7:01 PM
Post #208 of 230
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lena_chita wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: You didn't say if you want climbing in the Olympics or not..... DMT actually I did (I do, well, I wouldn't promote it but I would enjoy it if it were in the Olympics), but you probably skipped right by it with all the other long points that were made. So basicly, you are just confirming Dingus's point, even if you don't understand why there would/could be a correlation in the first place.
no, see my response to camhead.
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dingus
Feb 25, 2010, 7:06 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: No, I'm saying that if his point is that, so to speak, all fans of team sports are non-individualists then that is wrong. I'm asking him to clarify his point.
No I am saying the activities associated with pro team sports enthusiasts, do align them with nationalistic events such as Olympics. Team US, Team Canada, etc.
Its fairly obvious, we don't need to wring our hands over it.
DMT
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Gmburns2000
Feb 25, 2010, 7:12 PM
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dingus wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: I'm just curious why you think there is a link. Well the hero worship connection is obvious I think, so we'll skip that one by. In terms of pro sports enthusiasts - I noticed on another climbing forum, where long running threads about football (for example) have the same folks week in and week out commenting on the previous week's games and the upcoming contests as well. I noted these same folks, almost to a person, were participating in Olympics threads (and watching too, of course). And I have noted most of them are all for climbing in the Olympics. I did not say participants in team sports... I said those who (avidly) watch pro team-sports. DMT
OK. That's a reasonable conclusion. For some reason I thought you were connecting it based on personality type or something like that and I wasn't seeing / buying that.
But as for hero worshipping - I think that's bogus. I think there's plenty of people out there who don't watch pro sports or the Olympics who look up to elite climbers (have there been any sharma conversations on here lately?  ). Personally, I don't worship athletes at all. Some of them may do great things (Hannah Teter deserves kudos, for instance), and that deserves mention, but I would never say that an athlete is my hero for that athlete's athletic accomplishments. I would say that there is still a fair amount of that in climbing despite it not being an over-commcercialized Olympic sport.
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dingus
Feb 25, 2010, 7:16 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: I'm just curious why you think there is a link. Well the hero worship connection is obvious I think, so we'll skip that one by. In terms of pro sports enthusiasts - I noticed on another climbing forum, where long running threads about football (for example) have the same folks week in and week out commenting on the previous week's games and the upcoming contests as well. I noted these same folks, almost to a person, were participating in Olympics threads (and watching too, of course). And I have noted most of them are all for climbing in the Olympics. I did not say participants in team sports... I said those who (avidly) watch pro team-sports. DMT OK. That's a reasonable conclusion. For some reason I thought you were connecting it based on personality type or something like that and I wasn't seeing / buying that. But as for hero worshipping - I think that's bogus. I think there's plenty of people out there who don't watch pro sports or the Olympics who look up to elite climbers (have there been any sharma conversations on here lately? ). Personally, I don't worship athletes at all. Some of them may do great things ( Hannah Teter deserves kudos, for instance), and that deserves mention, but I would never say that an athlete is my hero for that athlete's athletic accomplishments. I would say that there is still a fair amount of that in climbing despite it not being an over-commcercialized Olympic sport.
You seem to be confusing sets and subsets.
I did not say all hero worshipers.
Oh SHARMMMMMAAAAAAAAA!!!11111111111
Barbarosa!!!!!1111111
Its the hero worshipping pro sports fans I am talking about... like all those goddamned fools 'disappointed' in Tiger.
DMT
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camhead
Feb 25, 2010, 7:18 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: But as for hero worshipping - I think that's bogus. I think there's plenty of people out there who don't watch pro sports or the Olympics who look up to elite climbers (have there been any sharma conversations on here lately? ). Personally, I don't worship athletes at all. Some of them may do great things ( Hannah Teter deserves kudos, for instance), and that deserves mention, but I would never say that an athlete is my hero for that athlete's athletic accomplishments. I would say that there is still a fair amount of that in climbing despite it not being an over-commcercialized Olympic sport.
No, but Sharma gets more of that moronic hero worship than anyone else in climbing. Any time a non-American or lesser known climber puts up something really hard, there is always some idiot saying "when is Sharma goingto confirm the grade?" Look at AB's signature right now, "whoa, as soon as I heard Sharma got on it, I HAD to give it a try!"
Hell, there was a recent article in a magazine on some kid who got Sharma to sign his arm, and then went right out and got a tattoo of the sig!
It's passive fucking hero worship, grown out of our larger culture of consumption. yay.
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kaizen
Feb 25, 2010, 7:25 PM
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I tend to agree, but there are so many types of hero worship.
It's one thing to admire someone based solely on their athletic accomplishments, like almost all highly-paid and advertised athletes.
It's quite another thing to admire someone based on their characteristics or story (war heros, perserverance, etc.).
The only problem is many times the two overlap. And now I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore.
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Gmburns2000
Feb 25, 2010, 7:28 PM
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camhead wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: But as for hero worshipping - I think that's bogus. I think there's plenty of people out there who don't watch pro sports or the Olympics who look up to elite climbers (have there been any sharma conversations on here lately? ). Personally, I don't worship athletes at all. Some of them may do great things ( Hannah Teter deserves kudos, for instance), and that deserves mention, but I would never say that an athlete is my hero for that athlete's athletic accomplishments. I would say that there is still a fair amount of that in climbing despite it not being an over-commcercialized Olympic sport. No, but Sharma gets more of that moronic hero worship than anyone else in climbing. Any time a non-American or lesser known climber puts up something really hard, there is always some idiot saying "when is Sharma goingto confirm the grade?" Look at AB's signature right now, "whoa, as soon as I heard Sharma got on it, I HAD to give it a try!" Hell, there was a recent article in a magazine on some kid who got Sharma to sign his arm, and then went right out and got a tattoo of the sig! It's passive fucking hero worship, grown out of our larger culture of consumption. yay.
All I was saying regarding hero worshipping is that it exists in climbing and pro team sports as well. Maybe commercialization brings that stuff to the forefront more, and maybe the Olympics would increase the worshipping in climbing, but it definitely exists in climbing right now, too. That's all I was saying, and I don't think Sharma is the only one. I think there are other climbers who get the similar treatment for their athletic accomplishments, too.
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kriso9tails
Feb 25, 2010, 7:33 PM
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dingus wrote: Its the hero worshipping pro sports fans I am talking about... like all those goddamned fools 'disappointed' in Tiger.
I'm okay with pro sports when I can filter out the bulk of the 'pro'. No wait, does pro stand for professional, or for promotional?
For a friend's bachelor party/ pre-marriage whatever-a-thon we went to a CFL game. I'm not much of a handegg fan (CFL or NFL), but just to watch the game, it was kind of interesting. He's a really good friend, and he's really into the sport itself (and not so much the mountains of shit tacked onto it to move merchandise). Even so, I bet they had a corporate logo on every strand of artificial turf on the field, and it gets hard to stomach what is essentially more advertising than sport.
When you get rid of the branding, the scandals, the politics of trading players and paying them gajillions of dollars to get pumped full o' drugs and consistently lose anyway, the obsessive fanatics that won't stfu about last night's game when they know full well I don't really care, the gimped sense regional pride, the uh... wait, I don't remember what I was going for.
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Feb 25, 2010, 7:36 PM)
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dingus
Feb 25, 2010, 7:34 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: All I was saying regarding hero worshipping is that it exists in climbing and pro team sports as well.too.
Yes so if you have some Sharma-ass-sniffer who is also into pro sports its a very high probability they will want climbing in Olympics.
DMT
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johnwesely
Feb 25, 2010, 7:35 PM
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camhead wrote: Hell, there was a recent article in a magazine on some kid who got Sharma to sign his arm, and then went right out and got a tattoo of the sig!
Please shoot me.
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johnwesely
Feb 25, 2010, 7:41 PM
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I was there when that guy got the signature on his arm. If only I had known, I could have tried to help him.
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Gmburns2000
Feb 25, 2010, 7:50 PM
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dingus wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: All I was saying regarding hero worshipping is that it exists in climbing and pro team sports as well.too. Yes so if you have some Sharma-ass-sniffer who is also into pro sports its a very high probability they will want climbing in Olympics. DMT
OK: Lynn Hill, Tommy Caldwell, Steph Davis, John Bachar, Messner, Royal Robbins...I mean, do these people not have other climbers fawning over them? They're obviously not all sporties. I'd find it hard to believe these folks aren't worshipped by some anti-Olympic folks.
Look, I know we're speaking in over-generalizations here, but worshipping happens just about everywhere, regardless of commercialization and / or culture. I mean, the mere fact that there are anti-worshippers means that there's someone out there who started the whole anti-worshipping way of life. We all have our guiding lights (my hero is my Dad). Some people worship athletes, some don't. There are climbers out there who are worshipped, and I have a seriously hard time believing that they're all a part of the Olympics fan base culture. It might not be true for you (it isn't even true for me!), but it exists.
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dingus
Feb 25, 2010, 7:51 PM
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Have a nice day dude. Its clear we are failing to communicate. It makes me crabby so I'll leave you to your thread, with a smile!
Cheers Gym
DMT
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camhead
Feb 25, 2010, 7:53 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: OK: Lynn Hill, Tommy Caldwell, Steph Davis, John Bachar, Messner, Royal Robbins...I mean, do these people not have other climbers fawning over them? They're obviously not all sporties. I'd find it hard to believe these folks aren't worshipped by some anti-Olympic folks.
Admired, yes. I admire every one of those people, and Sharma.
Just speculate, though, Greg. What do you think would have happened to someone in Camp 4 circa 1980 if they had asked Bachar to sign their arm, let alone go get a damned tattoo of it?
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Gmburns2000
Feb 25, 2010, 8:02 PM
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camhead wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: OK: Lynn Hill, Tommy Caldwell, Steph Davis, John Bachar, Messner, Royal Robbins...I mean, do these people not have other climbers fawning over them? They're obviously not all sporties. I'd find it hard to believe these folks aren't worshipped by some anti-Olympic folks. Admired, yes. I admire every one of those people, and Sharma.
Oh yeah, admiration is OK. But I think some of them are worshipped, too. I think there are people out there who live by the ethics and words and athletic accomplishments of these people too.
In reply to: Just speculate, though, Greg. What do you think would have happened to someone in Camp 4 circa 1980 if they had asked Bachar to sign their arm, let alone go get a damned tattoo of it?
Oh hey, I'm not saying there wouldn't be an assault or two. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but where there are leaders there will be followers, and there's always a leader in climbing - all parts of climbing - just like there is in all other sports. But just because people weren't open about it then doesn't mean the fawning didn't happen privately. It doesn't mean someone didn't want or think that about a Bachar tattoo (or some other variation of worshipping).
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johnwesely
Feb 25, 2010, 8:02 PM
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I worship money.
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