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dbogardus
Apr 7, 2010, 1:43 PM
Post #26 of 63
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Ralph Stover?
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kaizen
Apr 7, 2010, 2:13 PM
Post #28 of 63
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I had a friend who ended up 40 feet off the deck on an overhanging 11a sport route right at the crux when she realized she wasn't clipped in to any of the draws below her. Apparently her friend had led up to the crux but couldn't finish, so she lowered and let my friend lead up (still through all the QDs). She unclipped as she climbed higher, and accidentally unclipped the top draw. Stupid on many levels, no doubt.
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mojomonkey
Apr 7, 2010, 2:51 PM
Post #29 of 63
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bkalaska wrote: I tie in with a "yosemite finish" when I lead. I once saw a person tie it with a little loop "so it is easier to untie," and it seemed like a good idea. A few months later I built an anchor, clipped in, double checked everything before calling off belay and found that I had clipped through the little loop not my rope and belay loop. No more little loop for me.
How are you anchoring? What are you clipping the loop of your figure 8 tie in to? I guess I can't imagine why I'd want to anchor by clipping the loop of my figure 8 tie-in, so maybe I am misunderstanding. It seems it would load the knot non-optimally, pulling the two strands leaving the 8 apart (you on one side, the anchor on the other) and creating an opportunity to roll.
And are you clipping it right to the power point then? Seems like that wouldn't usually put you in a comfy position. Why not clip a knot tied from the rope? Or if you are using some PAS/sling to clip yourself to the anchor, why not clip your belay loop? (or just skip that and use the rope instead...)
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bkalaska
Apr 7, 2010, 3:01 PM
Post #30 of 63
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I usually use a clove hitch so I can adjust the length when trad climpbing. This was a sport climb (I don't sport climb much, and I was clipping into the anchor on draws to properly build an anchor for TRing. Since my figure 8 loop and my belay loop are together I usually just clip both in that situation, but was on auto pilot and clipped the wrong point. That seems to be the problem with many accidents. I am glad I make it a point to double check everything. I don't see how a backed up figure 8 or any figure eight that is tight and properly dressed would roll off the end of the rope. Especially if the belay loop is also clipped which would certainly be checked as I would be untying soon after. Clipping in through the 8 in generakl does not get in the way while untying, but is a bit redundant and not necessary since I am going to untie it. I was just providing it as an example of something that could go wrong when assuming youare clipped into a solid loop and it is just a spare loop of slack for "ease of untying."
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clausti
Apr 7, 2010, 4:46 PM
Post #31 of 63
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mojomonkey wrote: bkalaska wrote: I tie in with a "yosemite finish" when I lead. I once saw a person tie it with a little loop "so it is easier to untie," and it seemed like a good idea. A few months later I built an anchor, clipped in, double checked everything before calling off belay and found that I had clipped through the little loop not my rope and belay loop. No more little loop for me. How are you anchoring? What are you clipping the loop of your figure 8 tie in to? I guess I can't imagine why I'd want to anchor by clipping the loop of my figure 8 tie-in, so maybe I am misunderstanding.
from his post it sounded like clipping into the loop of his figure 8 was the error, not the intention.
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mojomonkey
Apr 7, 2010, 6:35 PM
Post #32 of 63
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clausti wrote: mojomonkey wrote: bkalaska wrote: I tie in with a "yosemite finish" when I lead. I once saw a person tie it with a little loop "so it is easier to untie," and it seemed like a good idea. A few months later I built an anchor, clipped in, double checked everything before calling off belay and found that I had clipped through the little loop not my rope and belay loop. No more little loop for me. How are you anchoring? What are you clipping the loop of your figure 8 tie in to? I guess I can't imagine why I'd want to anchor by clipping the loop of my figure 8 tie-in, so maybe I am misunderstanding. from his post it sounded like clipping into the loop of his figure 8 was the error, not the intention.
I thought we were talking about two loops - the normal "tie in" loop of the figure eight, and a second loop made by tucking the tail back in as a yosemite finish, but not pulling it snug. Sounds like he meant to clip the tie in one (and the belay loop), but instead clipped the finish tail loop.
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Scooter12ga
Apr 8, 2010, 5:40 PM
Post #33 of 63
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TarHeelEMT wrote: While I had always been aware of the possibility as an abstraction, this weekend at Table Rock, NC, I saw a two-foot thick tree with slings and rappel rings that had fallen down to the access trail beneath the crag.
Piedpiper wrote: ...My partner began to lower the tools clipped to the end of the rope with a locking biner (just to make sure). Everything was going fine until they managed to clip themselves to a quick draw on an ice screw halfway up the pitch...
Now that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about! Sorry, my intro got a bit wordy and I kind of lost the spirit of the idea.
Henceforth let's call this "Random stuff you'd never expect, and probably couldn't reproduce in a million years, even if you tried"
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hafilax
Apr 8, 2010, 6:02 PM
Post #34 of 63
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You just want random improbable stuff?
I had to rescue a girl in the group I was climbing with who somehow managed to cam her elbow into the crack and couldn't get it out. I helped from below while my partner who just topped out pulled the rope up and rappelled down to her to get her free. Must have taken 15 minutes or so to finally reverse the sequence that got her elbow in that position.
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clausti
Apr 8, 2010, 6:28 PM
Post #35 of 63
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hafilax wrote: You just want random improbable stuff? I had to rescue a girl in the group I was climbing with who somehow managed to cam her elbow into the crack and couldn't get it out. I helped from below while my partner who just topped out pulled the rope up and rappelled down to her to get her free. Must have taken 15 minutes or so to finally reverse the sequence that got her elbow in that position.
i've heard of that with knees.
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Scooter12ga
Apr 8, 2010, 6:44 PM
Post #36 of 63
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clausti wrote: just because you kicked your nut or your rope doesn't mean it wasn't a good placement.
Like I said, my example sucks, and trust me when I say I didn't kick it or the rope. It was all rope wiggle.
Would it have held a fall right then and there...probably. Would it have held a fall two moves up....who knows.
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clausti
Apr 8, 2010, 7:07 PM
Post #37 of 63
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Scooter12ga wrote: clausti wrote: just because you kicked your nut or your rope doesn't mean it wasn't a good placement. Like I said, my example sucks, and trust me when I say I didn't kick it or the rope. It was all rope wiggle. Would it have held a fall right then and there...probably. Would it have held a fall two moves up....who knows.
so the placement was good enough to resist a test pull down, left and right. and you slung it with a 24" runner. and then you climbed more or less "up." and you DIDN'T kick the rope. and yet the nut magically fell out.
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bill413
Apr 8, 2010, 7:15 PM
Post #38 of 63
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clausti wrote: Scooter12ga wrote: clausti wrote: just because you kicked your nut or your rope doesn't mean it wasn't a good placement. Like I said, my example sucks, and trust me when I say I didn't kick it or the rope. It was all rope wiggle. Would it have held a fall right then and there...probably. Would it have held a fall two moves up....who knows. so the placement was good enough to resist a test pull down, left and right. and you slung it with a 24" runner. and then you climbed more or less "up." and you DIDN'T kick the rope. and yet the nut magically fell out.
I always worry about angry spiders throwing my gear out of the rock.
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shimanilami
Apr 8, 2010, 7:23 PM
Post #39 of 63
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Climbing on El Cap on a high wind day will teach you something about rope management. I once had my rope get stuck on a flake at least 50 feet to the right of the route we were rapping down. Nowadays, if it's windy, I bring the rope down with me.
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matterunomama
Apr 9, 2010, 2:51 AM
Post #40 of 63
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!. Being so stoked to finish a multipitch that you rappell at dusk walk down the trail in the dark. And the trail is loose scree-much scarier than the climb itself.
2. Climber droppping a draw attached to the rope, forgetting that here was no gear below it to catch it-slam!
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darkgift06
Apr 9, 2010, 3:30 PM
Post #41 of 63
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I was top roping a girl for her first or 2nd time out & didn't see that she had a standard biner attaching her chalk bag to her harness, 1/2 way up at the tricky bit of climbing the biner got hooked to my side of the rope & as she went up it started pulling her off the rock.. didn't take much to fix but an un seen issue none the less.. now we tape the biner shut.
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airscape
Apr 10, 2010, 7:03 AM
Post #42 of 63
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I passed a climber on a path once on the way to another route and a draw on my harness clipped to one of his. I got swung around and dropped my rope in the dirt..
I've tried to let it happen on purpose a few times after that, seems a great way to meet chicks.
"Hey baby, looks like we clicked."
"We are draw together"
Or something stupid like that.
EDIT: it doesn't work on purpose.
(This post was edited by airscape on Apr 10, 2010, 7:03 AM)
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grahamh
Apr 11, 2010, 2:48 AM
Post #43 of 63
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Grand Titon, Wyoming, 1998. A 4 am start was not early enough. It's late Augest, 3pm. I've climbed sport fearlessly for a year but only lead trad once. There's a beautiful 100+ foot tower we decide to climb. Rock, paper, scizors and I get the lead. Starts 5.9ish but with a #4 nut bellow me it turns 11ish fast as I quickly throw a cam in with probable good placement just a bit higher. I go for it and fall. The cam pops. the pop flings a bite of rope around my arm. 30 feet later I'm hanging 10 feet above an ankle breaking ledge on a #4 chock holding me. A chunk of my inner bicept had ripped from it's conection to my collar bone along with rope burn in the arm pit.
Many lessons learned as a trad beginer including:
1) while zen is great most of the time, sometimes put the head a bit ahead of the body.
2) it was a damn early leason on how strong a tiny nut can be in granite.
Mostly the cause was just inexperience but in a strange way, as close as it was, it gave me more convidence in my pro in the future.
I never went to the doctor and the shriveled up chunk of bicept naturally healed back into the rest of the muscle with little notice in strength reduction after one month's healing
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blondgecko
Moderator
Apr 11, 2010, 8:15 AM
Post #44 of 63
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Scooter12ga wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: While I had always been aware of the possibility as an abstraction, this weekend at Table Rock, NC, I saw a two-foot thick tree with slings and rappel rings that had fallen down to the access trail beneath the crag. Piedpiper wrote: ...My partner began to lower the tools clipped to the end of the rope with a locking biner (just to make sure). Everything was going fine until they managed to clip themselves to a quick draw on an ice screw halfway up the pitch... Now that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about! Sorry, my intro got a bit wordy and I kind of lost the spirit of the idea. Henceforth let's call this "Random stuff you'd never expect, and probably couldn't reproduce in a million years, even if you tried"
Weirdest (and most painful) example of this I've heard of happened ten years or so ago in Townsville, Australia. Short story is that a guy took a fall off a straightforward, short sport route. Said fall went horribly awry, and he ended up hanging upside down from a quickdraw clipped behind his achilles tendon! Brief mention of it (and a picture of the offending biner after the fact) here.
Not in the same league, but certainly a "D'Oh!" moment for me:
Climbing in Werribee Gorge, near Melbourne - all short, fairly chossy sport routes. Towards the end of the day, pretty worn out, I decide to get on one more climb. This one has a fairly large ledge about four metres from the top. I reach this ledge pumped stupid. The last few moves to the top-out are reasonably straightforward, but I'm at the point where I don't trust myself to do them - and the last bolt is (stupidly) not clippable from the ledge. However, there's a large crack at the back, with a head-sized chockstone. Looked pretty solid, so I slung it. Didn't have a long sling, so I ended up with a pretty big "V" in the rope.
Anyway, topped out uneventfully in the end, and set up to bring up the second. All's going well until, a few metres off the deck, he comes off. Suddenly I have a whole lot of slack, he's sitting on his butt back on the ground, and people are screaming "rock!"
Just like a slingshot. Damn thing landed a good few metres outward from where it started. Certainly made me feel stupid, and rather contrite.
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dingus
Apr 11, 2010, 12:45 PM
Post #45 of 63
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airscape wrote: I passed a climber on a path once on the way to another route and a draw on my harness clipped to one of his. I got swung around and dropped my rope in the dirt.. I've tried to let it happen on purpose a few times after that, seems a great way to meet chicks. "Hey baby, looks like we clicked." "We are draw together" Or something stupid like that. EDIT: it doesn't work on purpose.
Dude! You SO need one of THESE: (on a stick maybe?)
Its like a friggin Chinese finger cuff!
DMT
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couloir98
Apr 13, 2010, 10:06 PM
Post #47 of 63
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What a tragedy that was so preventable. The analysis was somewhat bizarre blaming the weather when it was actually the incredible sheer incompetence in the decision making process from start to finish. Some of the rationalizations from the trip report author I have never heard before. Not sure why the surviving partner gets a free pass on the analysis If the point is for people to learn from these forums. I apologize for the insensitivity but it irks me today as much as it did right after it happened. (Reclimbing pitches on multipitch, Rapping off the front of Cathedral ignoring the standard descent, thinking they would haul their packs with extra rope. Hiding packs 100' up face of climb) I've never heard of this stategy on Cathedral or any other free alpine route ever!! Hopefully, author has figured this out and doesn't endanger anyone else in the future.
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summerprophet
Apr 13, 2010, 11:04 PM
Post #48 of 63
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Most of the dangers can be looked at in three fashions:
1. You are not prepared
For weather, for a 5.6 offwidth to be f#^%king BURLY for a 5.10 climber, for darkness, for heat, for slow parties ahead of you.
In my Humble opinion (as a rescue professional, as a climbing guide, as a climber with 18 years experience) every party more than a ropelength off the ground should have full pockets or a small pack with them.
EXAMPLE: Me and my partner were climbing strong, and had just done East Butt of Middle Cathedral in Yosemite the week before. We were going to dash up Royal Arches, and link to North Dome for a Mega Epic Day. The plan was climb fast and light, and Simul climb everything. Great Plan until we come across the father and son team way over their heads, and ready to have a major epic.
We had planned on taking an hour to do arches, and after joining parties, we began the rappells 13 hours later.... out of water and with darkness approaching. We got them down safe and sound, but ONLY because we were prepared with water, headlamps and wind jackets.
2. Failure to check / review systems
It has happened to everyone, and thankfully for the large majority of us, fate smiled upon us the first time, and we learned a valuble lesson.
From unlocked carabiners, halfwrapped knots, and poor anchors, the simple act of double checking before commiting to a system has probably killed more technical rockclimbers than everything else put together. We are at fault for this one. I advise this to everyone looking for free guide advice on anchors. If you are unsure... make sure everyone you are climbing with agrees it is safe,... that way when it fails, no individual is to blame, you are all at fault.
EXAMPLE: 18 years and 50 lbs ago, we were getting ready to toprope a short 5.11. While my partner ran around to rag an anchor and toss the ropes, my girlfriend at the time decided it was the perfect opportunity to check me for wood. I was understandable light headed by the time my climbing partner came down. Itied in and started climbing, and was easilly 10 feet up when my partner pointed out my harness was undone.
My fault YES! His fault YES! failure to double check each other is Both your faults.
3. Just Plain bad luck
rock fall, instantaneous storm clouds, stolen car, any number of unpredictable variables, some of which you can prepare for, some of which you cannot.
This kills us across the board, from the rank amature to Jim Halberl and Alex Lowe.
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angry
Apr 14, 2010, 1:04 AM
Post #49 of 63
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I won't count knees stuck in cracks, that's just business as usual.
Twice, I've got my fingers stuck in a finger crack so desperately that I had to clip into gear and haul a water bottle up so I could wet the crack and get my fingers out.
One time at band camp, I was leading this dihedral and the loop of my shoe clipped the cam below me. Since it was a hard size to downclimb, I kicked the shoe off (slipper) and finished the route one shoed.
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areyoumydude
Apr 14, 2010, 1:08 AM
Post #50 of 63
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angry wrote: One time at band camp, I was leading this dihedral and the loop of my shoe clipped the cam below me. Since it was a hard size to downclimb, I kicked the shoe off (slipper) and finished the route one shoed.
What instrument did you play?
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