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gunkiemike
Apr 25, 2010, 6:24 PM
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It almost goes without saying that some of what appears here, and on other climbing sites is 100% BS. Here's my list of the biggest turds.
In no particular order...
- When fitting shoes, the tighter the better. But hey, it keeps those sweet deals coming on EBay.
- Never take rope in when catching a leader fall. Foot, meet ledge.
- Nylon loses 5% of its strength each year due solely to age. Quick, someone alert the rope manufacturers!
- Dropped gear must be retired due to the risk of microfractures. A perennial tackle box favorite.
- Fall Factor determines the peak load on gear, the climber, and belayer. Yup, that's it; nothing else matters.
- Toproping on static rope will get you injured. A classic case of, "No, I haven't actually done it. I just know it's a no-no."
- Expensive cams are safer than the cheap ones. Usually something along the lines of, "You don't want to look down that long run-out and see a $29 unit down there." Hey buddy, I got a $200 cam to sell ya.
- Home-made or modified gear will kill you. Riiight. There are no more improvements possible. Ever.
- Gasoline, oil, WD-40 will damage nylon. Caution is prudent. Blowing smoke out your a$$ when you don't know what you're talking about OTOH...
- TR self-belay with a toothed cam ascender will shred the rope. (see TR on static rope.)
- Place Tricams and large SLCDs with the rails or wider lobes on the bottom. Like tipping over is even possible!
- Never clip metal-to-metal. Pitons and bolt hangers = instant flying biner shards.
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Dynosoarus
Apr 25, 2010, 7:00 PM
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AGREED
About the tight shoes comment
everyone online said to get the five ten anasazi moccasyms 1 to 1 1/2 smaller than my street shoe. I ended up having to send mine back for a replacement of one size bigger than my street shoe.
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johnwesely
Apr 25, 2010, 7:07 PM
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gunkiemike wrote: - When fitting shoes, the tighter the better. But hey, it keeps those sweet deals coming on EBay.
I hear that more at the gym then anywhere else.
In reply to: - Dropped gear must be retired due to the risk of microfractures. A perennial tackle box favorite.
I hear that one way way more at the crag than online where almost everyone agrees that micro fractures are not real.
In reply to: - Expensive cams are safer than the cheap ones. Usually something along the lines of, "You don't want to look down that long run-out and see a $29 unit down there." Hey buddy, I got a $200 cam to sell ya.
I don't think anyone says that.
In reply to: - Never clip metal-to-metal. Pitons and bolt hangers = instant flying biner shards.
Once again, something I hear at the crag but rarely online.
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malcolm777b
Apr 25, 2010, 7:12 PM
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gunkiemike wrote: - Never take rope in when catching a leader fall. Foot, meet ledge.
In reply to: - Toproping on static rope will get you injured. A classic case of, "No, I haven't actually done it. I just know it's a no-no."
In reply to: - Place Tricams and large SLCDs with the rails or wider lobes on the bottom. Like tipping over is even possible!
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jt512
Apr 25, 2010, 7:19 PM
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Dynosoarus wrote: AGREED About the tight shoes comment everyone online said to get the five ten anasazi moccasyms 1 to 1 1/2 smaller than my street shoe. I ended up having to send mine back for a replacement of one size bigger than my street shoe.
Congratulations on owning a completely worthless pair of Maccasyms.
Jay
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curt
Apr 25, 2010, 7:19 PM
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I agree with most of the things on your list, but suspect that many of them were myths either before or independent of the internet. I also think a couple of items on your list are a little questionable, at least the way you have worded them.
For example, top-roping on a static rope may not get you killed, but isn't necessarily a good idea--unless the route being top-roped is so high that the stretch from a normal dynamic rope could result in the climber decking near the start of the climb.
Also, your comment on fall factors is worded somewhat curiously. Fall factor does determine the forces involved in a fall--with all other things held constant. Naturally, a 50kg climber and a 100kg climber will generate different forces even if the fall factor is the same.
Good list though.
Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Apr 26, 2010, 5:54 AM)
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adatesman
Apr 25, 2010, 7:20 PM
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jt512
Apr 25, 2010, 7:23 PM
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curt wrote: For example, top-roping on a static rope may not get you killed, but isn't necessarily a good idea--unless the route being top-roped is so high that the stretch from a normal dynamic rope could result in the climber decking near the start of the climb.
Every gym I've climbed in uses static ropes for TR routes. Technically, they're "low-stretch" ropes, but they're what climbers typically refer to as "static ropes."
Jay
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curt
Apr 25, 2010, 7:39 PM
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jt512 wrote: curt wrote: For example, top-roping on a static rope may not get you killed, but isn't necessarily a good idea--unless the route being top-roped is so high that the stretch from a normal dynamic rope could result in the climber decking near the start of the climb. Every gym I've climbed in uses static ropes for TR routes. Technically, they're "low-stretch" ropes, but they're what climbers typically refer to as "static ropes." Jay
Sounds unnecessarily painful to me. Why? Do they just last longer?
Curt
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johnwesely
Apr 25, 2010, 7:40 PM
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adatesman wrote: johnwesely wrote: gunkiemike wrote: - Expensive cams are safer than the cheap ones. Usually something along the lines of, "You don't want to look down that long run-out and see a $29 unit down there." Hey buddy, I got a $200 cam to sell ya. I don't think anyone says that. Check any of the threads regarding Rock Empire or KROK (those Ukrainian cams on Ebay). It's rare to see anyone not say it.
You are right about the Kroks, but are people saying that about the REs too. I am pretty sure most people say they are not a nice cam but not that they are unsafe.
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jt512
Apr 26, 2010, 2:58 AM
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curt wrote: jt512 wrote: curt wrote: For example, top-roping on a static rope may not get you killed, but isn't necessarily a good idea--unless the route being top-roped is so high that the stretch from a normal dynamic rope could result in the climber decking near the start of the climb. Every gym I've climbed in uses static ropes for TR routes. Technically, they're "low-stretch" ropes, but they're what climbers typically refer to as "static ropes." Jay Sounds unnecessarily painful to me. Why? Do they just last longer? Curt
Yes, they last longer. I don't think it's all that painful. They stretch enough for a top rope fall. I wouldn't want to take a lead fall on one, though.
Jay
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rainman0915
Apr 26, 2010, 9:38 AM
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johnwesely wrote: adatesman wrote: johnwesely wrote: gunkiemike wrote: - Expensive cams are safer than the cheap ones. Usually something along the lines of, "You don't want to look down that long run-out and see a $29 unit down there." Hey buddy, I got a $200 cam to sell ya. I don't think anyone says that. Check any of the threads regarding Rock Empire or KROK (those Ukrainian cams on Ebay). It's rare to see anyone not say it. You are right about the Kroks, but are people saying that about the REs too. I am pretty sure most people say they are not a nice cam but not that they are unsafe.
All brand new cams are completely safe. RE cams go through the same rating tests as Friends, Camelots, Master cams, etc. and pass just fine. the only difference is durability, a camelot may last for many years if you take care of it, whereas an RE cam may last a much shorter time period depending on use
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johnwesely
Apr 26, 2010, 11:37 AM
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rainman0915 wrote: johnwesely wrote: adatesman wrote: johnwesely wrote: gunkiemike wrote: - Expensive cams are safer than the cheap ones. Usually something along the lines of, "You don't want to look down that long run-out and see a $29 unit down there." Hey buddy, I got a $200 cam to sell ya. I don't think anyone says that. Check any of the threads regarding Rock Empire or KROK (those Ukrainian cams on Ebay). It's rare to see anyone not say it. You are right about the Kroks, but are people saying that about the REs too. I am pretty sure most people say they are not a nice cam but not that they are unsafe. All brand new cams are completely safe. RE cams go through the same rating tests as Friends, Camelots, Master cams, etc. and pass just fine. the only difference is durability, a camelot may last for many years if you take care of it, whereas an RE cam may last a much shorter time period depending on use
That is not at all the only difference. It is not even a difference at all. There is no reason that a RE would be less durable.
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hugepedro
Apr 26, 2010, 11:46 AM
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jt512 wrote: curt wrote: jt512 wrote: curt wrote: For example, top-roping on a static rope may not get you killed, but isn't necessarily a good idea--unless the route being top-roped is so high that the stretch from a normal dynamic rope could result in the climber decking near the start of the climb. Every gym I've climbed in uses static ropes for TR routes. Technically, they're "low-stretch" ropes, but they're what climbers typically refer to as "static ropes." Jay Sounds unnecessarily painful to me. Why? Do they just last longer? Curt Yes, they last longer. I don't think it's all that painful. They stretch enough for a top rope fall. I wouldn't want to take a lead fall on one, though. Jay
Last longer, and cheaper price, usually.
I've seen guides using them outdoors with large groups. New belayers + new climbers + 60' toprope route = potential injury on a dynamic rope if the climber falls before they get 10 feet off the ground.
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yokese
Apr 26, 2010, 12:38 PM
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jt512 wrote: curt wrote: jt512 wrote: curt wrote: For example, top-roping on a static rope may not get you killed, but isn't necessarily a good idea--unless the route being top-roped is so high that the stretch from a normal dynamic rope could result in the climber decking near the start of the climb. Every gym I've climbed in uses static ropes for TR routes. Technically, they're "low-stretch" ropes, but they're what climbers typically refer to as "static ropes." Jay Sounds unnecessarily painful to me. Why? Do they just last longer? Curt Yes, they last longer. I don't think it's all that painful. They stretch enough for a top rope fall. I wouldn't want to take a lead fall on one, though. Jay
Probably they are cheaper too.
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 26, 2010, 12:48 PM
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How about:
"Cordelletes are BAD, don't use em!"
or
"Sliding X's are BAD, don't use em!"
Whatever!
Josh
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granite_grrl
Apr 26, 2010, 1:09 PM
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rainman0915 wrote: johnwesely wrote: adatesman wrote: johnwesely wrote: gunkiemike wrote: - Expensive cams are safer than the cheap ones. Usually something along the lines of, "You don't want to look down that long run-out and see a $29 unit down there." Hey buddy, I got a $200 cam to sell ya. I don't think anyone says that. Check any of the threads regarding Rock Empire or KROK (those Ukrainian cams on Ebay). It's rare to see anyone not say it. You are right about the Kroks, but are people saying that about the REs too. I am pretty sure most people say they are not a nice cam but not that they are unsafe. All brand new cams are completely safe. RE cams go through the same rating tests as Friends, Camelots, Master cams, etc. and pass just fine. the only difference is durability, a camelot may last for many years if you take care of it, whereas an RE cam may last a much shorter time period depending on use
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 26, 2010, 1:16 PM
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Ouch. Sumwonz votid mez wunz starrz!!! Meez sadz
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adatesman
Apr 26, 2010, 1:17 PM
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qtm
Apr 26, 2010, 1:39 PM
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Lost City is a secret crag.
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swoopee
Apr 26, 2010, 1:40 PM
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jt512 wrote: curt wrote: jt512 wrote: curt wrote: For example, top-roping on a static rope may not get you killed, but isn't necessarily a good idea--unless the route being top-roped is so high that the stretch from a normal dynamic rope could result in the climber decking near the start of the climb. Every gym I've climbed in uses static ropes for TR routes. Technically, they're "low-stretch" ropes, but they're what climbers typically refer to as "static ropes." Jay Sounds unnecessarily painful to me. Why? Do they just last longer? Curt Yes, they last longer. I don't think it's all that painful. They stretch enough for a top rope fall. I wouldn't want to take a lead fall on one, though. Jay
I'm with you. Every gym I've ever climbed in uses static ropes for toprope because they are much cheaper and last much longer. And yes they are fine for toprope. I have even climbed on static rope outdoors when someone else was using one.
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angry
Apr 26, 2010, 1:57 PM
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Not sure where people are getting this notion that a cheap cam is as durable. Hell no they are not.
I've fallen every bad way on Aliens, Camalots, and Friends you can imagine. I've only one rendered a blue alien unusable. In fact, it'd be fine for $8 if CCH was still in business.
I've had a lot of RE Pulsar cams. They didn't last as long. One of them I broke the aluminum keeper bar in a single fall. This rendered it useless but yes, it was still just as strong. The other ones stopped pulling smoothly once the cable got even the tiniest bit of tweak. 2 days of dirt also made them nearly impossible to use.
This is side by side to Camalots and Friends and Aliens that got cleaned up once every couple years and withstood way more abuse.
Certification strength is not any sort of guarantee that you're buying good gear. Just that your gear won't break when you fall on it.
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camhead
Apr 26, 2010, 2:19 PM
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angry wrote: Not sure where people are getting this notion that a cheap cam is as durable. Hell no they are not. I've fallen every bad way on Aliens, Camalots, and Friends you can imagine. I've only one rendered a blue alien unusable. In fact, it'd be fine for $8 if CCH was still in business. I've had a lot of RE Pulsar cams. They didn't last as long. One of them I broke the aluminum keeper bar in a single fall. This rendered it useless but yes, it was still just as strong. The other ones stopped pulling smoothly once the cable got even the tiniest bit of tweak. 2 days of dirt also made them nearly impossible to use. This is side by side to Camalots and Friends and Aliens that got cleaned up once every couple years and withstood way more abuse. Certification strength is not any sort of guarantee that you're buying good gear. Just that your gear won't break when you fall on it.
Not to mention that it is almost always easier to get a more expensive cam to fit properly in a placement (BD is the most obvious but not the only, example).
Beyond "Never die," I have found that "ALWAYS" and "NEVER" statements regarding rock climbing tend to be in the realm of the gumby.
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angry
Apr 26, 2010, 2:24 PM
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adatesman wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Safety and quality standards aren't the same for every cam manufacturer..... The ones that are UIAA certified are.  
It's definitely misleading to have you, the gear guy, essentially say that all UIAA certified cams are the same.
Not trying to start anything here but from what I've seen of your climbing tastes, your cams see less action in years than mine see in a month in Utah. Not necessarily an elitist statement, just think of our gear use as two points on a bell curve.
BTW, if you want to see what your designs can do for a couple punks in Greenland, I'll give you my address and pay shipping. I'll even throw in a Bermuda T-shirt or coconut or some pink sand or something.
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sidepull
Apr 26, 2010, 2:26 PM
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gunkiemike wrote: It almost goes without saying that some of what appears here, and on other climbing sites is 100% BS. Here's my list of the biggest turds. In no particular order... - When fitting shoes, the tighter the better. But hey, it keeps those sweet deals coming on EBay. - Never take rope in when catching a leader fall. Foot, meet ledge. - Nylon loses 5% of its strength each year due solely to age. Quick, someone alert the rope manufacturers! - Dropped gear must be retired due to the risk of microfractures. A perennial tackle box favorite. - Fall Factor determines the peak load on gear, the climber, and belayer. Yup, that's it; nothing else matters. - Toproping on static rope will get you injured. A classic case of, "No, I haven't actually done it. I just know it's a no-no." - Expensive cams are safer than the cheap ones. Usually something along the lines of, "You don't want to look down that long run-out and see a $29 unit down there." Hey buddy, I got a $200 cam to sell ya. - Home-made or modified gear will kill you. Riiight. There are no more improvements possible. Ever. - Gasoline, oil, WD-40 will damage nylon. Caution is prudent. Blowing smoke out your a$$ when you don't know what you're talking about OTOH... - TR self-belay with a toothed cam ascender will shred the rope. (see TR on static rope.) - Place Tricams and large SLCDs with the rails or wider lobes on the bottom. Like tipping over is even possible! - Never clip metal-to-metal. Pitons and bolt hangers = instant flying biner shards.
Most interdweebs or internoobs don't know what a tricam is or have any idea what self-belay means (other than thinking it's some reference masturbation). This list = FAIL from a humor standpoint. You only really nailed it on the first one and as several people have mentioned, you're perhaps more likely to hear some sales person at REI say that than you are if you ask that in the gear forum (almost everyone their, zombie-like, tells you to get what fits, which can be equally bad advice).
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