You guys managed to ruin a perfectly good thread.

and what setting is that? as more and more cracks are sent, the faces are what is left. They get bolted. On slabs, handdrilling from a stance is an option, but on steep terrain, it isn't. Bolting could be done on lead, with bolts 3' feet apart. Is that somehow better than rapbolting?

I could understand the uproar if Lama was bolting a crack.

it IS black and white, until you nobs overthinking overcomplicate and overdo the whole thing. its a bolt. its chalk. get over it.

Oh come now. Don't get all upset and start calling people who are better traveled and more experienced than you noobs.

What you don't seem to understand is that your militant stance of 'local ethics don't matter' is just as much of an ethic as those that you're rebelling against.

My question to you do you even know the reason behind those local ethics that you rebelling against?

yes. do you.

You guys managed to ruin a perfectly good thread.

Ah, spoken like a man who is in over his head. I'm sorry that you don’t know anything about the local ethics you’re rebelling against.

With your 'me first attitude' you sound like an incredibly lazy and self centered person who just stepped off the plastic.

now is when i ask you to point out a local ethic i've broken. go.

I never said you did. However you've stated that local ethics should be ignored. I find it very hard to believe that you would state such a thing so strongly and yet never have done so.

Besides, I know some of the people you climb with and I know about your last boudering trip up on the North Shore. . . . (small world huh?)

Well it was noteworthy because of the copious amounts of chalk that you used.

As to wear you went I belive it was Sawmill. Then again the pictures looked a lot like Section 13.

As tempting as it is to play the part, I can't do that, and I'll have to end the last few pages of fun right here.

Oh I know who you are . . . . Joel. How's your newborn?

You've also climbed at Palisade head with Forest, Phillip, and several others . . . .

As for trolling . . . good for you but do you think I'd keep talking with someone as stupid as you claim to be if I didn't think you where simply providing some entertainment? I mean you've never acted this obtuse before but then again I suppose you could have just been drunk for the past few days.

That's ok, you don't have to answer that. You can keep on thinking that you've trolled me good. It's better for your ego.

Awwww, man! It is like I got sucked into a soap opera pilot, and now it's been suddenly canceled.

A child? Definitely not me. Not that I know of.

Oh come now Joel. We both know the newborn is your nephew.

We live in Minnesota, not Alabama.

We live in Minnesota, not Alabama.

True but your name is Joel Connor.

You've climbed with Harvest, Pete, and Canadian Brian to name just a few.

I know about your slip up with the chalk on Sawmill and Palisaide Head. Hell I was there for it.

This is like watching the South Park episode about John Edward....

No.

Back on track - well I guess that depend on what teach you are interested in. Anyhoo - lets make a big assumption - assume that Lama is successful in what he is trying to do - rap bolts and sends. What will the results be? He will get lots of press - positive and negative. He will move on to the next big thing. The route will sit there and eventually get repeated. Ultimately it might get repeated in what most consider better style - skipping the bolts and placing trad gear instead. This has happened on a number of sport climbs at regular old sport areas and its probably inevitable that it will happen on alpine routes like this one would be. Probably be an evolutionary process - skip a few bolts - discover a variation that takes gear for part of a pitch and so on - until eventually the whole thing went on natural gear. A proud effort if it were to occur but most likely it would only get a footnote in history. Now assume instead that Lama - well we know it wouldn't be him - but a peer - spent years - decades maybe - with many attempts to really explore and get to know the face and eventually figured a way to link the whole thing on natural gear ground up. The actual climbing might be about the same (except the first case would still be marred by the chicken bolts) but in one case its just an interesting foot note and in the other it would be what most people would hail as one of the greatest feats in climbing history. Lama is robbing someone of that opportunity.

Hehehehe, keep on sayin' half truths there Joel.