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majid_sabet
Nov 2, 2010, 12:36 AM
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when I started hiking back in early 70s, I was told by older climbers that when you are descending and approaching an ascending climber, you should step aside and let them by pass you. The logic behind this rule was that the ascending climbers have harder time to restart their ascent and it was easier for you to down climb or hike down vs them who are on the move .
I mean, almost none of these rules and bylaws are written down anywhere but many climbers in different countries believe that calling yourself as a climbers comes with series responsibilities and these sort of rules varies from one place to another so if we want to list some of the rules, what would it be ?
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Nov 2, 2010, 9:51 PM)
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spikeddem
Nov 2, 2010, 12:50 AM
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I'm a bum. If I'm headed up a trail, I'll gladly step aside to sneak a rest while trying to make it look like I'm not panting heavily. 
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cruxstacean
Nov 2, 2010, 1:18 AM
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Don't through your rope down from the top of a popular crag without yelling "rope", especially if it is going to land three feet next to someone at the bottom in a huge heavy tangle 
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mckbill
Nov 2, 2010, 1:31 AM
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I was taught to make way for the people hiking uphill. If I'm going uphill I don't expect people to extend this courtesy, but I do thank them if they offer it.
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onwardupward
Nov 2, 2010, 1:48 AM
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I've found that a lot of people at the gym are just rude. The other day I was climbing on a rope next to this nasty woman who was falling all over the place and almost kicked me several times. I waited a minute, mistakenly thinking she would let me go after a few tries. She didn't and I ended up bailing. It's crowded people- show some courtesy.
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chadnsc
Nov 2, 2010, 2:57 AM
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That's nice and all onward but nothin' to do with conversation we were having.
From a backpacking standpoint on steep accents / decants it's typically thought to give the person descending right of way as they're typically going faster and it's thought harder for them to stop without possibly loosing their footing and rolling down hill taking you out with em'. 
(This post was edited by chadnsc on Nov 2, 2010, 3:04 AM)
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pendereki
Nov 2, 2010, 3:31 AM
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Backcountry ethics state that uphill has the right of way. They are working harder, have a more difficult time looking uphill to plan a rest spot and are moving slower so will have fewer options available to pull over. Downhill folks are cruisin' and not out of breath. They have it easy already. If uphill hikers want to pull over and rest--go ahead, but I will always give uphill the right of way.
I have seen this in books, I wish I could remember where so that I would sound more authoritative!
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dan2see
Nov 2, 2010, 3:39 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: when I started hiking back in early 70s, I was told by older climbers that when you are descending and approaching an ascending climber, you should step aside and let them by pass you...
Hiking on trails, I've never been able to make this work. I just don't get it -- who or why is supposed to do what.
So I let the situation tell me, and I always smile and say "Hi". Unless the oncoming hiker says "Hi" first, then I say "Lo". Now, that makes sense to me!
On the rocks, it's worse. Of course you're never on the same route as the guy coming down (well not usually). But any kind of courtesy just doesn't work. Sometimes the other guy is too busy with his gear or footwork, so anything I say or do is mis-understood. Or maybe I'm just a little to nervous about hanging on to my moves, so I'll just freeze until he passes.
Anyway it's all very nice for the "older climbers" to give you instructions. Until the club from the other side of town informs you how their rules are the correct version.
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j_ung
Nov 2, 2010, 12:57 PM
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Sounds more like a question of etiquette than ethics to me. Everything I need to know about climbing etiquette I learned in kindergarten.
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Dip
Nov 2, 2010, 1:12 PM
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I guess i knew this but forgot all about it until a couple weeks ago. I was hiking up and a couple older guys were coming down. I stepped aside to let them pass and as they thanked me they mentioned something about me having the right of way, which jarred my memory. As far as i'm concerned though, whoever's having the harder time of it should be given the courtesy of being allowed to continue, and that's not neccessarily the group moving up.
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Kartessa
Nov 2, 2010, 2:06 PM
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I learned in driver's ed that you should always pass oncoming on the right and slow-moving on the left.
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dan2see
Nov 2, 2010, 2:20 PM
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j_ung wrote: Sounds more like a question of etiquette than ethics to me. Everything I need to know about climbing etiquette I learned in kindergarten.
Dip wrote: I guess i knew this but forgot all about it until a couple weeks ago. I was hiking up and a couple older guys were coming down. I stepped aside to let them pass and as they thanked me they mentioned something about me having the right of way, which jarred my memory. As far as i'm concerned though, who-ever's having the harder time of it should be given the courtesy of being allowed to continue, and that's not necessarily the group moving up.
Now, that makes sense! It's really natural, isn't it?
But: up or down, stopped or moving, it's always correct to smile and say "Hi".
Unless you're on a runner's high, then it's just goofy.
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jt512
Nov 2, 2010, 5:43 PM
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Kartessa wrote: I learned in driver's ed that you should always pass oncoming on the right and slow-moving on the left.
What if they're slow moving and oncoming?
Jay
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Dip
Nov 2, 2010, 6:51 PM
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In reply to: What if they're slow moving and oncoming?
Duck and cover.
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sp115
Nov 2, 2010, 6:54 PM
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Random things I do, but not necessarily what you should do:
- If I'm hiking I typically let the ascending party pass, but will definitely let the situation decide what's most appropriate.
- First party that gets to the base of the route gets to climb it...unless I've got three seconds and the other party is an experienced pair and are going to move quickly, (and are polite), in which case I'll defer.
- I don't top-rope a popular lead climb at a crowded cliff, but I don't bitch about if somebody can't lead it and wants to take a few runs on it.
- Anyone who catches up to me while soloing get's to climb through (it's happened twice).
- When climbing with two seconds, I place the strongest climber as the third (I climb with double-ropes).
- I always double-check my partner and he/she always double-checks me, whether we're starting up, mid-climb, walking off, or rapping. Shit can go wrong and you need to be vigilant.
- I almost always choose the walk-off over rapping when there is an option to do so.
- I don't get casual about knocking things down on people and I always yell if I do.
- I don't throw the rope unless it's clear.
- I don't rap over anybody.
- At a busy rap station I typically offer a ride down my rope if the other party is waiting behind me and ready to go.
- I don't scream like a lunatic if my partner can't hear me. We both know what to do with rope commands before we leave the ground.
- I don't make my partner carry my crap, if I want it along on the climb, I should lug it.
- I don't chalk holds (but I'm willing to admit that occasionally I've been happy when the party before me has).
- I pay attention while belaying, and expect my second to do the same.
- I don't give beta/spray about routes I've never climbed.
- I speak up when things are unsafe, and I force myself to be polite even if the people being unsafe are cocky-twits that really need a kick in the god-damned head.
- If I don't know something I say so.
- And finally, I always, always, always, bring enough beer to share after the climb.
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milesenoell
Nov 2, 2010, 7:21 PM
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Always use your best judgment. That seems to work quite well for me.
Aside from that, learning what other people are particularly sensitive to seems to help, but meeting folks with eye contact and a smile seems to go a long way to smooth over the occasions when a faux pas (what's the plural of faux pas?) comes up.
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milesenoell
Nov 2, 2010, 7:29 PM
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Lest I come off as too easy going, if you throw a rope down that hits me while I am leading you can expect some direct insults to be hurled your way despite your best attempts to smile and make eye contact.
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milesenoell
Nov 2, 2010, 7:35 PM
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Kartessa wrote: I learned in driver's ed that you should always pass oncoming on the right and slow-moving on the left.
Now what I wish people (at least people in the Pacific Northwest) would learn is that if they aren't actively passing they should get the hell out of the left lane. I would so love to see people get ticketed for driving in the left lane when not passing. The two lanes are not equivalent!!
That's my own personal rant. Thanks for listening.
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seatbeltpants
Nov 2, 2010, 7:47 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Going up hill is always harder than moving down hill especially with a heavy pack so I do not see how it would to beneficiary to a hiker who is on the move like a locomotive to pull over, cool off and try to restart again.
i'm all in favour of stepping aside and lettng others pass regardless of direction, but the justification here seems a bit silly to me. when you're hiking uphill do you really have any momentum to maintain? really?
people talk about maintaining momentum when climbing (as in rock climbing) as well, which never really stuck me as realistic. you might have momentum when you're swinging from hold to hold on monkey bars, but anywhere else, aside from "psychological momentum"? nah, surely not.
though i may be wrong...
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chadnsc
Nov 2, 2010, 8:34 PM
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I just give the faster moving hiker the right of way, uphill, downhill, ect.
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majid_sabet
Nov 2, 2010, 9:19 PM
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chadnsc wrote: I just give the faster moving hiker the right of way, uphill, downhill, ect.
how about allowing faster rapping party to use your rope to rap while you are waiting for your team members to reach the rap station ?
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chadnsc
Nov 2, 2010, 9:44 PM
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Sure, but I thought we where talking about HIKING, you know, class three and below.
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majid_sabet
Nov 2, 2010, 9:50 PM
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chadnsc wrote: Sure, but I thought we where talking about HIKING, you know, class three and below.
no I was not talking about hiking. this thread is about what you do or don't while hiking or climbing.
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kennoyce
Nov 2, 2010, 10:18 PM
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milesenoell wrote: Kartessa wrote: I learned in driver's ed that you should always pass oncoming on the right and slow-moving on the left. Now what I wish people (at least people in the Pacific Northwest) would learn is that if they aren't actively passing they should get the hell out of the left lane. I would so love to see people get ticketed for driving in the left lane when not passing. The two lanes are not equivalent!! That's my own personal rant. Thanks for listening.
I'm with you there, I don't think that this problem is exclusive to the pacific northwest though. I have seen this all over the country, but nowhere have I seen it worse than in southern california. I think people in southern california have grown so accustomed to traffic (which causes all lanes to go very slowly), that they have forgotten that there is any difference between the lanes. This is in fact my biggest pet peeve in the entire world.
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