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JokerRick
Dec 21, 2010, 2:16 PM
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I'm 39, but brand new to climbing, been doing it for 2 weeks now at a gym. I like it, but it's harder than I thought (made it up a couple of 5.6's and 2/3rds of the way up a 5.7  ).
I have all the gear I need for now: harness, shoes, chalk/bag. Since the pro for real climbing is so expensive, I am considering buying a piece at a time to build up a rack for the day when I'm good enough.
One thing holding me back from starting that journey is that I get a knot in my chest just looking at pictures of people on big walls. I certainly have a bit of fear of heights, but I don't find it bothers me at the gym, even at the top of a 40', because I feel secure in the harness/ropes. I kinda doubt that would be the case on a real wall.
Did any of you come from having a fear of heights, and slowly overcome it? Is that part of the thrill? I'm afraid it would paralyze me.
(This post was edited by JokerRick on Dec 21, 2010, 2:50 PM)
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socalclimber
Dec 21, 2010, 2:28 PM
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JokerRick wrote: I'm 39, but brand new to climbing, been doing it for 2 weeks now at a gym. I like it, but it's harder than I thought (made it up a couple of 5.6's and 2/3rds of the way up a 5.7 ). I have all the gear I need for now: harness, shoes, chalk/bag. Since the pro for real climbing is so expensive, I am considering buying a piece at a time to build up a rack for the day when I'm good enough. One thing holding me back from starting that journey is that I get a knot in my chest just looking at pictures of people on big walls. I certainly have a bit of fear of heights, but I don't find it bothers me at the gym, even at the top of a 40', because I feel secure in the harness/ropes. I kinda doubt that would be the case on a real wall. Did any of you come from having a fear of heights, and slowly overcome it? Is that part of the thrill? I'm afraid it would paralyze me.
It really depends on the individual. I used to hate working close to edges without a rope, so I always tied in. Now, I routinely work right on the edge in my sandals no problem. I'm really careful of course, and if I feel the need to tie in I do.
The real point I see here is your concern of it paralyzing you. This is bad. Fear is a good thing in climbing, it keeps ya honest as long as you can manage it. Don't let anyone feed you bullshit about conquering or mastering your fear. It's crap. Over time most learn to manage their fear a contain it so it won't overwhelm them into panic.
Once you hit panic, you pretty much in real trouble. Your ability to deal with the situation at hand will drop to zero in a hurry.
Take your time. You don't need to climb El Cap tomorrow, or ever for that matter. Only you will be able to tell what your "zone" is or isn't.
There are people out there who largely only top rope. They still have fun. Don't let others pressure you into a situation you are not up for. Fuck'em.
Your just beginning, there is so much you have to learn at this point.
When I first started out some 20 years ago, I was scared at first, then I was bold and lead hard routes (for me). Now that I'm pushing 50, my shoulders aren't so great anymore, my ankles are trashed and I have a knee that's becoming an issue, I find my confidence to lead hard just isn't there.
So I don't!
Have fun, be smart, be safe!
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kachoong
Dec 21, 2010, 2:46 PM
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Welcome to the lifestyle, Rick. I won't say sport cuz, to me, it's not really lumped in with sports; instead it's a way of life.
I'm sure there are many climbers here who had (maybe even still have) an instinctive fear of heights. One of the reasons some, like me, started climbing was to reduce or even eliminate that innate fear. For me, just like diving reduced my fear of the ocean, climbing has been a great way to embrace heights.
These days I couldn't imagine myself not climbing and not loving being on the edge. In a way it's the imagination that can play with your fears, as just like, I think it was, Amundsen who described his exploration of the Northern ice sheets; that his fear of all those noises and cracks during the night was fueled by his imagination and what could potentially happen. Every now and then I find myself staring at a belay, with all the creaks and movement, when my partner is rapping off and imagine all sorts of chaotic things... fear can really be driven by many personal feelings but these same feelings can be stuffed away easily, with much exposure, into the "who cares" file of your brain.
Keep at it... it will take time, but you will find yourself being able to manage your fears just as well as your ability to manage your gear. Not being afraid will eventually become instinctive.
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spikeddem
Dec 21, 2010, 2:49 PM
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Don't buy a rack (or pieces of one) until you know you want to do it. You may find that you enjoy a different kind of climbing, or that you don't like climbing as much as you thought you did once the novelty wears off.
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Gmburns2000
Dec 21, 2010, 2:50 PM
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I think a lot of climbers have a fear of heights, not all, but a lot. There are times when I'm afraid of heights and times when I'm not. I don't know why there is a difference, but there is and that's just the way it is. I accept the ebb and flow as a normal part of being human.
Don't worry about El Cap right now. Give yourself time to grow. You'll figure out what you want to climb as you go along. It's all about what you want to get out of climbing; if you want something then you'll probably find a way to go get it, and if not then you won't. It's no big deal, just do what you want to do and let things take care of themselves. You're new to the game, so be patient.
Welcome to climbing, where the head game is probably the most important mystery.
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kobaz
Dec 21, 2010, 2:55 PM
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JokerRick wrote: ...brand new to climbing, been doing it for 2 weeks now at a gym....I am considering buying a piece at a time to build up a rack for the day when I'm good enough
Welcome to the sport... it's fun and exciting and... well... really hard too. Don't feel bad if you can only climb 5.6 for your first several months. And to avoid injury, don't go number chasing just yet. Stick with stuff that's fun and mostly within your limits because there's a lot of muscles and tendons that need to strengthen up.
I would totally hold up on buying more gear than what you presently have. Unless you really really have this burning passion to climb outside on your own stuff. There will be plenty of people you can head out with who will have more than enough gear for what you want to do. Gear adds up quickly, as you can probably already see. Just your harness and shoes was probably $100+. I've spent about $3,000 on gear.
There's nothing worse for me than seeing someone outside at a cliff with a bucketload of gear, still with the tags on everything... setting up a climb dangerously wrong. Just make sure you get some good instruction before heading out into the unknown. It's easy to kill yourself.
With all that said... let me tell you about my introduction to climbing. I was never particularly afraid of heights... I always liked looking over cliffs when hiking. My brother brought me to a gym and with a bit of effort I clawed my way up the easy wall. At the top I hear the words "let go". Wtf?, let go? "Yeah... let go, you have the rope". After a few more routes I got more comfortable with the height.
After climbing for about two months I heard about this other, bigger gym that was outside of town...we went there. I went through the height paranoia all over again. The walls were twice as high and the area was bigger so you had quite the view at the top. Getting lowered back down was really freaky. After a few more days at the bigger gym, I was fine with being lowered.
One of my main climbing partners is terrified of heights, and loves climbing. It's a matter of how much mental effort you are willing to exert in fighting your fears.
If you are super dead set on buying gear... get gear in this order:
Helmet.
- 1 inch tubular webbing. and some biners. You'll know what lengths to get based on what climbing areas are like locally.
- Nuts and and nut tool and some more biners
- Cams and more biners
- More cams and more biners
- Second set of nuts
And by this point after buying all that, you'll probably have an idea of what else to buy
And seriously... I wouldn't recommend going out and using any of this stuff until you've had good instruction on how everything all works, and how to use everything properly.
Edited to fix quite tag
(This post was edited by kobaz on Dec 21, 2010, 2:56 PM)
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JokerRick
Dec 21, 2010, 3:04 PM
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Thanks for the thorough replies. I guess one of my main reasons for wanting to start buying pieces is that it might motivate me to not give up. I'd be damned if I had spent several hundred bucks on gear and not use it. 
However, I guess the right-thinking is probably the fact that I would be going out with a seasoned lead climber when I do start, and they'd have most of the (especially expensive) gear that we'd need.
But it all looks so cool too... 
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kachoong
Dec 21, 2010, 3:14 PM
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JokerRick wrote: Thanks for the thorough replies. I guess one of my main reasons for wanting to start buying pieces is that it might motivate me to not give up. I'd be damned if I had spent several hundred bucks on gear and not use it. However, I guess the right-thinking is probably the fact that I would be going out with a seasoned lead climber when I do start, and they'd have most of the (especially expensive) gear that we'd need. But it all looks so cool too...
Get a little bit at a time. It's what keeps the fun in getting gear, fulfilling your birthdays and christmas's for years to come. First few purchases usually start with a set of draws, a set of nuts, and some hand-sized cams (perhaps 0.75, 1 and 2 C4's), then work your way to getting a sturdy 10-10.5mm rope, smaller and larger cams and specialty pieces as the years progress.
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rockrah
Dec 21, 2010, 4:33 PM
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JokerRick wrote: Thanks for the thorough replies. I guess one of my main reasons for wanting to start buying pieces is that it might motivate me to not give up. I'd be damned if I had spent several hundred bucks on gear and not use it. However, I guess the right-thinking is probably the fact that I would be going out with a seasoned lead climber when I do start, and they'd have most of the (especially expensive) gear that we'd need. But it all looks so cool too...
Hey, I haven't been climbing long either, A few months now. I have a fear of heights, unlike you mine starts around 15ft in the gym. I have found that although I get a tingly feeling looking down, the fear is mitigated the more I climb. I have frozen and got stuck, but you can overcome your fear, and work with it. For me, the realisation of what was possible for me to do if I overcame the fear, has helped me progress very quickly grade wise.
Your probably find also as you progress, that you grow to love the challenges and physiological aspect of climbing more and more, And before you know it you'll inadvertently acquire some gear anyway without
thinking too much about the money. Also I boulder alot and glimb in a gym top roping. Also joind a club, the gear is there for you to use as and when required, plus you meet lot's of other people I defiantly recommend you go bouldering and join a club, Great fun! Anyway, good luck on your journey, and have fun!
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socalclimber
Dec 21, 2010, 4:52 PM
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JokerRick wrote: Thanks for the thorough replies. I guess one of my main reasons for wanting to start buying pieces is that it might motivate me to not give up. I'd be damned if I had spent several hundred bucks on gear and not use it. However, I guess the right-thinking is probably the fact that I would be going out with a seasoned lead climber when I do start, and they'd have most of the (especially expensive) gear that we'd need. But it all looks so cool too...
Although well intentioned, this place is LOADED with bad advice.
Simple, for now, make sure you have the following:
Helmet
Harness
Shoes
Chalk Bag
Belay Device
Headlamp
4 or 5 shoulder length slings
5 or 6 locking biners
5 or 6 non-locking biners
Personal Clothing (something wind proof, something warm, something water proof)
ROPE
Buying cams, stoppers, hexs etc is a waste of money at this point. Simply having your own personal gear, and A DECENT ROPE will get you miles as you're looking for partners. The conversation is as follows:
"I'm a new climber, I have my own gear, and I HAVE A ROPE. Will you climb with me?"
This means that the person with the rack will be far more inclined to go with you since you have something to add to the mix rather than showing up with a shopping bag with just your harness and shoes. Don't laugh, I've seen it happen.
You are far to new to be buying rack style gear at this point. Learn off of other peoples gear. As time goes on, you will start to find what you like, and what you don't like as far as the rack goes. If you buy gear now, you are only going to be buying blind.
Some webbing and cordelette can't hurt either.
Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150.
New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE
It's just how the game goes.
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spikeddem
Dec 21, 2010, 4:58 PM
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socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes.
Don't ever spend $200 on a rope. Sheesh.
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erisspirit
Dec 21, 2010, 5:17 PM
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JokerRick wrote: Thanks for the thorough replies. I guess one of my main reasons for wanting to start buying pieces is that it might motivate me to not give up. I'd be damned if I had spent several hundred bucks on gear and not use it. However, I guess the right-thinking is probably the fact that I would be going out with a seasoned lead climber when I do start, and they'd have most of the (especially expensive) gear that we'd need. But it all looks so cool too...
Fall in love with the sport first...
then buy gear.
Having gear be your reason not to give up, won't keep you motivated enough to keep going.
You can climb with more experienced partners who have gear for awhile before buying it all yourself.
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socalclimber
Dec 21, 2010, 5:26 PM
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spikeddem wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. Don't ever spend $200 on a rope. Sheesh.
Well, while there is some truth to that, it's not the end all. In my end of the game, cheap ropes mean new ropes every few months.
I can't afford that, even with all the pro deals I get.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Dec 21, 2010, 5:27 PM)
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jedasmith
Dec 21, 2010, 5:47 PM
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Hello!
In response to the fear part of your query. I have been climbing for a handful of years-- -both inside and outside. I am very, very afraid of heights. I get nothing out of the "thrill"-- I climb for different reasons. I like the movement, the grace, and the challenge of climbing as well as the different beautiful places it has taken me. The good news is--at least for me-- that the being scared part does get easier. I am still not as comfortable as most of my partners, but it is manageable most of the time. The bad news is that it can flare up at any given time, and the fear does tend to hold me back from climbing at my limit. It is still all worth it though. Take it slow-- don't put any pressure on yourself. And as a close friend of me reminds me on a daily basis, keep your eyes on your own paper. Best of luck!
Jen
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blkela
Dec 21, 2010, 7:08 PM
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JokerRick wrote: One thing holding me back from starting that journey is that I get a knot in my chest just looking at pictures of people on big walls. I certainly have a bit of fear of heights, but I don't find it bothers me at the gym, even at the top of a 40', because I feel secure in the harness/ropes. I kinda doubt that would be the case on a real wall. Did any of you come from having a fear of heights, and slowly overcome it? Is that part of the thrill? I'm afraid it would paralyze me.
If the fear of heights really gets to you (like froze up can't get over it fear/panic) I would say invest in a crash pad and boulder if you want to continue with climbing.
A friend of mine won't tie in but can crank out moves like its nobodies business at the local boulder garden.
Also, you are new, do not worry about leading on a "wall" anytime soon, or following for that matter.
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michael1245
Dec 21, 2010, 7:32 PM
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I have an INCREDIBLE fear of heights.
I trust the gear and my partners. It's not so much a fear of falling but the fear of going higher. It has definitely been the biggest obsticle for me to overcome. It's also a HUGE part of the thrill factor.
I'm the guy on the roller coaster with his eyes shut, stomach in knots, gripping the saftey bar with white knuckles...when the ride is over, then I'm smiling.
I just keep at it...it's something I know I need to overcome. If I climb a route halfway or three-quarters and bug out and decide to go back down...well, it's better than nothing I suppose. Some of us have genuine fears. It's all about trying to overcome. So yes, I feel your pain...but, nothing makes you feel more alive than facing a fear and getting through it.
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bearbreeder
Dec 21, 2010, 8:51 PM
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- only more climbing will moderate the fear ... climb as much as you can
- climbing outside brings and entirely new fear ... do it as soon as possible with someone experienced
- dont buy gear until you climb a few times outside or take a course and figure out what you need
- learn from someone experienced or a guide on how to build top rope anchors outside
and just go climb !!!
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dindolino32
Dec 23, 2010, 2:49 AM
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I was definitely scared my first few times and am continually scared until I get going on the climb. I don't get to go as much as I would like because I live in Nebraska. It leads to long drives if I want to climb. BUT, Climbing outside has more to offer. You can do lower angled climbs rated at 5.6 that will keep your fear under control and they can still be fun. I started while I lived near the sierras and the area was completely undeveloped. My climbing experienced was different from most other climbers as there were no sport climbs. I read a book, read it again with a highlighter, read another book and then began climbing. I started on EASY trad climbs (5.4-5) and worked my way up. I found that made sport routes rarel scary because I was used to relying on trad gear. If you have some experienced climbing friends, have them get you outside.
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sp115
Dec 23, 2010, 1:11 PM
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socalclimber wrote: Simple, for now, make sure you have the following: Helmet Harness Shoes Chalk Bag Belay Device Headlamp 4 or 5 shoulder length slings 5 or 6 locking biners 5 or 6 non-locking biners Personal Clothing (something wind proof, something warm, something water proof) ROPE Buying cams, stoppers, hexs etc is a waste of money at this point. Simply having your own personal gear, and A DECENT ROPE will get you miles as you're looking for partners. The conversation is as follows: "I'm a new climber, I have my own gear, and I HAVE A ROPE. Will you climb with me?" This means that the person with the rack will be far more inclined to go with you since you have something to add to the mix rather than showing up with a shopping bag with just your harness and shoes. Don't laugh, I've seen it happen. You are far to new to be buying rack style gear at this point. Learn off of other peoples gear. As time goes on, you will start to find what you like, and what you don't like as far as the rack goes. If you buy gear now, you are only going to be buying blind. Some webbing and cordelette can't hurt either. Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes.
I like this advice. Notice the first piece of equipment on the list? I won't take a new climber out without one. I have no idea of your abilities and truthfully, neither do you. Don't skip the helmet.
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jolery
Dec 23, 2010, 6:19 PM
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JokerRick wrote: I'm 39, but brand new to climbing, been doing it for 2 weeks now at a gym. I like it, but it's harder than I thought (made it up a couple of 5.6's and 2/3rds of the way up a 5.7 ). I have all the gear I need for now: harness, shoes, chalk/bag. Since the pro for real climbing is so expensive, I am considering buying a piece at a time to build up a rack for the day when I'm good enough. One thing holding me back from starting that journey is that I get a knot in my chest just looking at pictures of people on big walls. I certainly have a bit of fear of heights, but I don't find it bothers me at the gym, even at the top of a 40', because I feel secure in the harness/ropes. I kinda doubt that would be the case on a real wall. Did any of you come from having a fear of heights, and slowly overcome it? Is that part of the thrill? I'm afraid it would paralyze me.
I used to be terrified of heights - I would get major anxiety on an 8' ladder - yeah, ridiculous. Now I am comfortable with heights although I don't hang out on cliff edges in my sandals unroped. Like others have said, it's basically desensitizing yourself to heights. The more you are exposed to heights, the less fearful you will be, at least that's the concept. As far as taller stuff is concerned, when I was beginning I found that after a certain point, for me around 200 feet, more height didn't mean more anxiety - it was all just...really fucking high.
Oh yeah, welcome to rock climbing!
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socalclimber
Dec 23, 2010, 9:15 PM
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Hey Rick,
Great topic by the way!!!
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rtwilli4
Dec 23, 2010, 10:01 PM
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The cool thing about climbing is that you can have fun doing any kind of climbing at any grade. Most people build a rack piece by piece because of their budget. If you can lead 5.6 then you can lead 5.6. You need just as many pieces to make a 5.6 safe as you do a 5.10.
The big wall thing is how everyone feels. While I have been on numerous 700-1200 foot climbs, I've never been on a "big wall" and I still wonder how I'll feel when I get the chance to do it. You might wonder how you'll feel when you get on a 700 foot climb. There is only one way to find out... pick the right climb and the right partner and get out there. Once you are prepared of course.
Take things slow, and enjoy climbing. Don't look too far into the future and don't spend to much time evaluating your progress. Just do what is fun and focus on enjoying yourself. Every time you climb you will become more comfortable, and someday you'll find yourself on a big committing climb. Sure you'll be a bit nervous, but that's part of the fun. Just make sure you prepare yourself for any climbs that you want to do so when you are up there you won't be questioning your abilities or skills.
The most important thing for me was/is to have climbing partners that compliment my abilities. When I was learning, I made a point of always climbing with more experienced climbers. Now that I am a seasoned climber and am trying to climb harder grades, I climb with partners with different styles. In both cases I'm learning new things every time I go out. My point is, your partners are very important. They will instill ideas, techniques and a style in you that you will carry for a long time.
Finally, climbing inside is good training, but like you said, the "real climbing" is out of doors.
Have Fun!
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goofey8grape
Dec 24, 2010, 12:22 AM
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I'm feeling just like you joker! Although I just got some way better epuipment for Christmas. I can't wait to go!!!
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oldsalt
Dec 28, 2010, 3:52 AM
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jolery wrote: I used to be terrified of heights - I would get major anxiety on an 8' ladder - yeah, ridiculous. Now I am comfortable with heights although I don't hang out on cliff edges in my sandals unroped. Like others have said, it's basically desensitizing yourself to heights. The more you are exposed to heights, the less fearful you will be, at least that's the concept. As far as taller stuff is concerned, when I was beginning I found that after a certain point, for me around 200 feet, more height didn't mean more anxiety - it was all just...really fucking high. Oh yeah, welcome to rock climbing!
I didn't invent this, and I can't give proper credit for it, but...
Most non-climbers have a fear of heights which prevents them from wanting to climb. A number of climbers, if not most of them, when standing on the edge of a 100'+ drop have a fear of jumping.
I love the view from the top, and I don't freeze up. However, I do find myself thinking about how easy it would be to jump. Believe me, I am not suicidal. The mental process is a spontaneous sensation and not a desire.
I have only had one significant lead fall. I clearly recall the moment that I lost my stance, but not of feeling fear. I caught my foot on slab and flipped onto my back head first. I fell about 50' in total, but my thoughts were very clear...
How long am I going to keep falling?
When will one of the pieces that I placed do its job?
Will it hurt when I hit the ground?
I was not hurt. My belayer was alert and able to compensate for the blown piece. I did not hit the ground.
Looking back, circumstances have dictated that I have only done solo leads since then. I feel fear but I don't enjoy it. I enjoy the intense concentration involved in protecting a climb.
In any event, I have not been the same climber since. Until you take a big fall, you really don't believe that the worst can happen to you. I do think about falling now.
Introspection is brutal, if you are honest with yourself.
[I have written more about this in an older post. I still re-experience it all. I still climb, but it is different. Oh yeah, I started climbing 8 years ago at age 53.]
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JokerRick
Dec 29, 2010, 12:21 AM
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oldsalt wrote: Looking back, circumstances have dictated that I have only done solo leads since then.
I know I'm new, but I've been reading a lot trying to learn all the right vocabulary. I still don't understand what this means, "solo leads."
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oldsalt
Dec 29, 2010, 12:53 AM
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A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route. It is not a routine part of climbing and never recommended. Do not assume that soloing is in any way a next step in the climbing skills progression.
Also, this is different from "free soloing," which means climbing without a rope.
In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy, but free soloing is suicidal. Most people who free solo don't spray about it...it is a private thing. Ours not to judge.
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jt512
Dec 29, 2010, 8:26 AM
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oldsalt wrote: A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route.
Actually, what you are referring to is called a "roped solo."
In reply to: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . .
No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Dec 29, 2010, 8:30 AM)
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bearbreeder
Dec 29, 2010, 12:58 PM
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jt512 wrote: which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay
tell that to colin haley when he did the first solo ascent of Cerro Standhardt
I left the Niponino bivouac very early Saturday morning, and at four am arrived at the Standhardt-Bifida col, where the Exocet route (500m, WI5, 5.9) begins. In the dark I self-belayed the slabby mixed terrain of the first pitch, and then in the morning sunlight soloed across the large ramp system that rises across Standhardt's east face.
After traversing the ramps, the defining feature of Exocet rises straight above: the vertical and largely-blank granite wall is split by a deep chimney, choked with ice in the back. The chimney is four pitches long, with difficulties of about WI4, WI5, WI5, and WI4. The first two pitches of the chimney I free-soloed, hauling my pack up behind me. I climbed quite slowly, making sure that every tool placement was absolutely bomber. Although the third pitch is no harder than the second (and in fact a bit easier I think), I chose to self-belay it, as I could feel my arms getting tired. The fourth pitch I free-soloed except for a ten-meter step that I self-belayed with a back-loop.
Above the chimney is another slabby mixed pitch which I self-belayed, and I then continued up to summit mushroom, which goes with an easy and straightforward pitch of AI3. I reached the summit at 4pm, twelve hours after beginning, and began my descent. The descent of Exocet is one of the easiest and most straightforward in Patagonia because it is almost entirely on ice and clean slabs, so there is very little for the rappel ropes to catch on. I stumbled back to my tent at Niponino, arriving very tired shortly after dark, and the weather window broke down as I slept through the night. On Sunday the rain didn't let up for a single minute on the long hike from Niponino back to town.
This was the first solo ascent of Cerro Standhardt. In 1994, Tommy Bonapace soloed most of the Exocet route, but was forced to turn back at the top of the ice chimney because of a bad storm.
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2010/11/exocet-solo.html
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michael1245
Dec 29, 2010, 2:16 PM
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oldsalt wrote: jolery wrote: Oh yeah, I started climbing 8 years ago at age 53.] you're awesome
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oldsalt
Dec 29, 2010, 3:07 PM
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jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route. Actually, what you are referring to is called a "roped solo." In reply to: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . . No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay
I feel odd challenging one of your posts, Jay, but...
Roped soloing is more generic than just leading. It is a class of activities that distinguishes (or un-distinguishes depending on your point of view) solo TR where you belay yourself up a fixed rope from solo leading where you belay yourself from the ground up while placing gear or clipping bolts.
Solo TR requires nothing more than an ascender, while solo leading requires a suitable device that will pass rope or arrest a fall as needed.
Either method satisfies the need to climb when you must go alone. The risks involved are quite different, and they are magnified by the absence of outside assistance when you are alone on the rock.
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jt512
Dec 29, 2010, 8:37 PM
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oldsalt wrote: jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route. Actually, what you are referring to is called a "roped solo." In reply to: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . . No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay I feel odd challenging one of your posts, Jay, but... Roped soloing is more generic than just leading.
Maybe in Florida. I've never heard anyone refer to "toprope soloing" as anything other than just that, nor have I ever heard anyone use the term "roped solo" to mean anything other than leading.
Jay
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aaronh
Dec 29, 2010, 8:58 PM
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Read the Rock Warriors way
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theapollo
Jan 4, 2011, 6:07 PM
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socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes.
There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point
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jt512
Jan 4, 2011, 6:18 PM
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theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.).
What constitutes an "entry level rope"?
In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point
Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high.
Jay
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theapollo
Jan 4, 2011, 6:23 PM
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jt512 wrote: theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). What constitutes an "entry level rope"? In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high. Jay
Cheap and at least semi durable. It's like beginner shoes, it's gonna wear out quickly so just get it as cheap as possible (keeping safety in mind of course) until the person knows what they're doing
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boymeetsrock
Jan 4, 2011, 6:39 PM
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I'll second Spikeddem and Socialclimber. I've seen plenty of people drop hundreds of dollars because they are SO INTO climbing, and then never make it out again after the first summer.
Take your time. Enjoy the new hobby. Learn the ropes and gear. Learn the different styles of climbing. Read, read, read.
Once you have an understanding of the gear and styles and basic techniques, you will know what you need to buy to go in the direction that suits you.
As for the fear, that is a battle we all face on our own. In time you will learn to process the fear or not. If you can't process the fear then you will probably get over climbing pretty quickly. If you enjoy the fear side of the game to some extent you may become hooked on climbing for life. All in good time. Two weeks is but a flash in the pan.
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boymeetsrock
Jan 4, 2011, 6:45 PM
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jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . . No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay
Both of these statements are incorrect.
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socalclimber
Jan 5, 2011, 2:32 AM
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theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point
I have no problems with that. My whole point is don't spend a ton of money on really good ropes for a while. They will just get trashed.
Entry level ropes, these are just ropes that are not super expensive and not as durable. I think the proper term is price point ropes. They are just fine, especially for beginners. Nobody is putting out ropes that are shit just because they are "cheap" by comparison to the top end.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jan 5, 2011, 2:36 AM)
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curt
Jan 5, 2011, 5:16 AM
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jt512 wrote: theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). What constitutes an "entry level rope"? In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high. Jay
Well, that's strange. In my first year of climbing I somehow managed to wander up quite a few 300 foot high climbs and somehow get back down with a single 50 meter rope.
Curt
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bearbreeder
Jan 5, 2011, 5:25 AM
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boymeetsrock wrote: I'll second Spikeddem and Socialclimber. I've seen plenty of people drop hundreds of dollars because they are SO INTO climbing, and then never make it out again after the first summer. Take your time. Enjoy the new hobby. Learn the ropes and gear. Learn the different styles of climbing. Read, read, read. Once you have an understanding of the gear and styles and basic techniques, you will know what you need to buy to go in the direction that suits you.
thirded ... a cheap 60m 10-10.5mm rope will last you yr first year or two .. yr likely going to use it top ropping quite a bit, and falling on sport leads ... no need for dry ropes when starting out ... you can find ropes for close to $100 if you shop around
i see people with expensive dry mammuts top ropping all the time ...
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 6:01 AM
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A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out.
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 5:16 PM
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JokerRick wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. This is my concern precisely. I can climb a 40' wall at the gym because, heck, I'm just staring at the wall and the holds. Sure I look down at my feet, but my focus never really leaves my vicinity. I'll just have to see what it's like when I get there. It will surely be some time before I get to anything big outside anyway. I've resisted buying any additional equipment except a couple of cordeletttes and carabiners to learn knot/hitch tying with. Heck even if I end up not getting into real rock climbing I can always use those to tie stuff down on my roof-rack.
Knots are fun, but I never seem to use more than a few tried and true ones.
Edited to add:...I never learned a trucker's hitch until I climbed, but that is a great knot to know despite the fact that I'll never use it when climbing.
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Jan 5, 2011, 9:48 PM)
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Gmburns2000
Jan 5, 2011, 5:37 PM
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milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out.
I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out.
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 6:31 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out.
I had hoped my writing was clear enough that that had been implied.
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 6:38 PM
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JokerRick wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. This is my concern precisely. I can climb a 40' wall at the gym because, heck, I'm just staring at the wall and the holds. Sure I look down at my feet, but my focus never really leaves my vicinity. I'll just have to see what it's like when I get there. It will surely be some time before I get to anything big outside anyway. I've resisted buying any additional equipment except a couple of cordeletttes and carabiners to learn knot/hitch tying with. Heck even if I end up not getting into real rock climbing I can always use those to tie stuff down on my roof-rack.
In regards the section I bolded, I think this is one of the most common ways that climbers manage fear while still tuning into the climb. It's really kind of like a zen exercise to just be focused on that which you can act upon. The threats may be real, but the important part for you is to focus on just the parts that you have control over.
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Gmburns2000
Jan 5, 2011, 7:03 PM
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milesenoell wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out. I had hoped my writing was clear enough that that had been implied.
sorry! I think it was the word "hilarious" that threw me off, because that is not only what tends to happen to me, but it is also part of the reason I climb. So I find that to be less funny and more therapeutic, I guess.
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 7:12 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out. I had hoped my writing was clear enough that that had been implied. sorry! I think it was the word "hilarious" that threw me off, because that is not only what tends to happen to me, but it is also part of the reason I climb. So I find that to be less funny and more therapeutic, I guess.
Sorry if I sounded snippy.
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Gmburns2000
Jan 5, 2011, 7:18 PM
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milesenoell wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out. I had hoped my writing was clear enough that that had been implied. sorry! I think it was the word "hilarious" that threw me off, because that is not only what tends to happen to me, but it is also part of the reason I climb. So I find that to be less funny and more therapeutic, I guess. Sorry if I sounded snippy.
esta bien
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Jooler
Jan 5, 2011, 8:38 PM
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Hey Rick,
I too am afraid of heights. One thing I focus on when climbing taller routes (and boulder problems) is to look no further down than my feet. That way I know in the back of my mind that I am quite high off the ground, however without visually seeing it, it doesn't "paralize" me.
This works for me, it may also help you too!
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reg
Jan 5, 2011, 8:48 PM
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i could tell you some stories! i was deathly afraid when i started. i have come a long way. trust the gear and the people and gain knowledge about safety and systems. you'll come around. climb more
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 9:56 PM
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curt wrote: jt512 wrote: theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). What constitutes an "entry level rope"? In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high. Jay Well, that's strange. In my first year of climbing I somehow managed to wander up quite a few 300 foot high climbs and somehow get back down with a single 50 meter rope. Curt
A local sport crag near me has anchors set so that my 60m rope generally lowers the climber to about 3 feet off the deck (with a small, efficient tie in knot). It's annoying having to deal with mismatches between gear and rocks, so why add to it with a shorter than normal rope?
Edited.
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Jan 5, 2011, 9:58 PM)
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 10:14 PM
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jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route. Actually, what you are referring to is called a "roped solo." In reply to: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . . No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay I feel odd challenging one of your posts, Jay, but... Roped soloing is more generic than just leading. Maybe in Florida. I've never heard anyone refer to "toprope soloing" as anything other than just that, nor have I ever heard anyone use the term "roped solo" to mean anything other than leading. Jay
I'm calling BS. Every thread I've ever seen on here that deals with "roped soloing" has involved confusion over soloing on TR or lead.
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curt
Jan 6, 2011, 2:55 AM
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milesenoell wrote: curt wrote: jt512 wrote: theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). What constitutes an "entry level rope"? In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high. Jay Well, that's strange. In my first year of climbing I somehow managed to wander up quite a few 300 foot high climbs and somehow get back down with a single 50 meter rope. Curt A local sport crag near me has anchors set so that my 60m rope generally lowers the climber to about 3 feet off the deck (with a small, efficient tie in knot). It's annoying having to deal with mismatches between gear and rocks, so why add to it with a shorter than normal rope?
I suppose that's also why nobody heads up El Capitan without a 2,000 meter rope.
Curt
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jt512
Jan 6, 2011, 3:35 AM
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milesenoell wrote: jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route. Actually, what you are referring to is called a "roped solo." In reply to: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . . No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay I feel odd challenging one of your posts, Jay, but... Roped soloing is more generic than just leading. Maybe in Florida. I've never heard anyone refer to "toprope soloing" as anything other than just that, nor have I ever heard anyone use the term "roped solo" to mean anything other than leading. Jay I'm calling BS. Every thread I've ever seen on here that deals with "roped soloing" has involved confusion over soloing on TR or lead.
Well, if they're confused about it on rockclimbing.com . . .
Jay
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jt512
Jan 6, 2011, 3:38 AM
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curt wrote: milesenoell wrote: curt wrote: jt512 wrote: theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). What constitutes an "entry level rope"? In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high. Jay Well, that's strange. In my first year of climbing I somehow managed to wander up quite a few 300 foot high climbs and somehow get back down with a single 50 meter rope. Curt A local sport crag near me has anchors set so that my 60m rope generally lowers the climber to about 3 feet off the deck (with a small, efficient tie in knot). It's annoying having to deal with mismatches between gear and rocks, so why add to it with a shorter than normal rope? I suppose that's also why nobody heads up El Capitan without a 2,000 meter rope. Curt
El Cap isn't exactly a sport crag.
Jay
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curt
Jan 6, 2011, 3:54 AM
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jt512 wrote: curt wrote: milesenoell wrote: curt wrote: jt512 wrote: theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). What constitutes an "entry level rope"? In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high. Jay Well, that's strange. In my first year of climbing I somehow managed to wander up quite a few 300 foot high climbs and somehow get back down with a single 50 meter rope. Curt A local sport crag near me has anchors set so that my 60m rope generally lowers the climber to about 3 feet off the deck (with a small, efficient tie in knot). It's annoying having to deal with mismatches between gear and rocks, so why add to it with a shorter than normal rope? I suppose that's also why nobody heads up El Capitan without a 2,000 meter rope. Curt El Cap isn't exactly a sport crag. Jay
True enough. However it's the post by milesenoell that is non-responsive, as the OP never asked about proper equipment for a sport crag.
Curt
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milesenoell
Jan 6, 2011, 8:58 PM
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curt wrote: In reply to: El Cap isn't exactly a sport crag. Jay True enough. However it's the post by milesenoell that is non-responsive, as the OP never asked about proper equipment for a sport crag. Curt
I was just responding to the comment on rope lengths, not trying to steer the whole thread. As for bringing up sport, that tends to be where your chosen rope length becomes a significant concern.
Edited to fix cheesetit.
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Jan 6, 2011, 8:59 PM)
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markc
Jan 6, 2011, 10:00 PM
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I was also afraid of heights when I started climbing. The first couple times anxiety stopped me from finishing routes that were around 40-50 feet and within my abilities. Some routes weren't a problem, but the combination of an awkward move at height would throw me off mentally. A general nervousness would settle in at a certain height, but as I kept climbing that height progressively bumped higher.
It took me a while to get into sport climbing, and to have nerves settle down once I did. I probably had a season or two of sport climbing under my belt before I followed someone up a multipitch route. Following a friend up easy routes at Seneca really changed things.
Since that time, I've been able to get on progressively taller routes. I've climbed just a little bit at Yosemite, including Royal Arches. That's by far the tallest thing I ever climbed, and the height wasn't a problem. I never imagined climbing something 1,400 feet when I was struggling up a 40' route, and it was a gradual process.
Regarding gear, I bought it as I needed it. I had personal gear and had been going out with a group of experienced friends. One day none of my partners with ropes were available, so I bought a rope, webbing, and a handful of biners. (I had experience rigging anchors, as did my other ropeless friend.) I bought quickdraws as I got into sport, gradually expanding the number of draws as I could afford to. After seconding traditional routes for a while, I went in on a rack with my housemate.
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Dadonate
Jan 8, 2011, 6:57 PM
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Try not to think of it as overcoming fear but dealing with it if any climber says they are not scared they are lying it wouldnt be fun without the fear but remember whats safer than falling way off of the ground tied into gear thats not going to rip have fun
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Greggle
Jan 8, 2011, 9:45 PM
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Dadonate wrote: Try not to think of it as overcoming fear but dealing with it if any climber says they are not scared they are lying it wouldnt be fun without the fear but remember whats safer than falling way off of the ground tied into gear thats not going to rip have fun
An inauspicious first post...
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saint_john
May 5, 2011, 3:44 PM
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Greggle wrote: Dadonate wrote: Try not to think of it as overcoming fear but dealing with it if any climber says they are not scared they are lying it wouldnt be fun without the fear but remember whats safer than falling way off of the ground tied into gear thats not going to rip have fun An inauspicious first post...
not to mention a run on sentence.
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climber49er
May 9, 2011, 4:59 PM
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I don't seem to be terribly afraid of heights, but I am VERY afraid when I think about the results of a fall. I tend to focus on the wall in front of me and I'm fine that way. It's when I look down that my legs turn to butter and I can't hardly breath.
I have a problem fully trusting the pro, even though I have had a couple big falls and everything was fine.
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cacalderon
May 10, 2011, 1:56 AM
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i suffered from fear of heights when i started climbing years ago.
It took me a long long time to beat my fear and start leading (~1 year). Once leading i would concentrate on the "3' x 3' piece of rock" in front of me and just forget the rest. The more a climbed the better I got at controlling my fear. With time this fear, as you know it, will just pretty much disappear.
I agree with so me of the other posts, fear is good and you need practice to learn how to control your fear so that it does not turn into panic (losing control).
Keep at it and have fun.
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