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SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre
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Partner j_ung


Jan 28, 2011, 8:41 PM
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Re: [jon06] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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jon06 wrote:
You probably knew the guy, in which case I have no right arguing with you.

If you didn't, than I would say you are wrong.

Seems to me he would have
a) punched lama in the face, chopped his route, and done the route ground up.

or, more likely

b) would have snatched the route out from under lama via a ground up ascent in the first place.

I would love to see some hard man do either of the above!

It pains me when climbers, who thrive in the outdoors, want to industrialize it.

OUTLAW RAP BOLTING IN THE BACK COUNTRY!!!

Okay, wait. What do you mean by "outlawed?" Are you speaking metaphorically? Or are you actually saying legislatures should pass laws to govern climbing and police agencies should enforce them? Cause I have to tell you, if it's the latter, you might be a moron.


Partner j_ung


Jan 28, 2011, 8:47 PM
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Re: [jbro_135] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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jbro_135 wrote:
j_ung wrote:
jon06 wrote:
I was number 999!

Rap bolting should be outlawed in the back country!

If you feel otherwise, you should stay out of the back country.

WWJBD? (what would john bachar do?)

He certainly wouldn't call for laws to regulate climbing.

the petition doesn't either?

I haven't read it and none of the links appear to work right now, but the description in the OP certainly didn't say anything about legislation to stop lama from rap bolting.


jon06


Jan 28, 2011, 9:17 PM
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Re: [j_ung] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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about 75% metaphorically

and 25% literally


fresh


Jan 28, 2011, 9:23 PM
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Re: [jon06] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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jon06 wrote:
OUTLAW RAP BOLTING IN THE BACK COUNTRY!!!
metaphorical or not, this is a terrible sentiment. I'd rather david lama rap bolt his line and have a bunch of pissed climbers, than have some outside authority block him from climbing in his way.

I am all for, however, the authorities ensuring that they fucking clean up after themelves.


erisspirit


Jan 28, 2011, 9:47 PM
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Re: [j_ung] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
jon06 wrote:
You probably knew the guy, in which case I have no right arguing with you.

If you didn't, than I would say you are wrong.

Seems to me he would have
a) punched lama in the face, chopped his route, and done the route ground up.

or, more likely

b) would have snatched the route out from under lama via a ground up ascent in the first place.

I would love to see some hard man do either of the above!

It pains me when climbers, who thrive in the outdoors, want to industrialize it.

OUTLAW RAP BOLTING IN THE BACK COUNTRY!!!

Okay, wait. What do you mean by "outlawed?" Are you speaking metaphorically? Or are you actually saying legislatures should pass laws to govern climbing and police agencies should enforce them? Cause I have to tell you, if it's the latter, you might be a moron.

+1 The nanny state is already ruining the fun in everything else... Don't really want that can of worms opened :(


Partner j_ung


Jan 28, 2011, 10:16 PM
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Re: [erisspirit] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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Not that it isn't already happening to some extent. Unfortunately, governing bodies rarely make a distinction in how bolts are placed. They just ban fixed anchors entirely.


Gmburns2000


Jan 30, 2011, 3:40 PM
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Re: [highcamp] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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Sorry, haven't read the entire thread, so hopefully I'm not making too much of a fool of myself here.

I signed it. Having moved to Santiago and met climbers who frequent the area, I have learned that folks down here care A LOT about this issue. It is so much so that I'd be surprised if he isn't met with crobars down there. People really don't like what he has done or plans to do. It appears to be a complete disrespect for the local ethics and the community.

As for the argument of not telling people how to climb, we do that all the time with our own local ethics: no bolts in Scotland, bolts on previous gear routes at Rumney, no bolts in IC, no retro-bolting routes that others would find dangerous. However we've decided on whatever rules we've established is irrelevant; they're rules and we're supposed to abide by them.

For me, I'm supporting those who feel this goes against their local ethics. I hope more people do the same.


Partner j_ung


Jan 30, 2011, 4:00 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
As for the argument of not telling people how to climb, we do that all the time with our own local ethics: no bolts in Scotland, bolts on previous gear routes at Rumney, no bolts in IC, no retro-bolting routes that others would find dangerous. However we've decided on whatever rules we've established is irrelevant; they're rules and we're supposed to abide by them.

I don't follow a local ethic. I follow my own, which happens to be in line with what you could call a local ethic. When traveling, however, I make sure my actions are equal to or better than whatever that ethic might be.


Gmburns2000


Jan 30, 2011, 4:17 PM
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Re: [j_ung] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
As for the argument of not telling people how to climb, we do that all the time with our own local ethics: no bolts in Scotland, bolts on previous gear routes at Rumney, no bolts in IC, no retro-bolting routes that others would find dangerous. However we've decided on whatever rules we've established is irrelevant; they're rules and we're supposed to abide by them.

I don't follow a local ethic. I follow my own, which happens to be in line with what you could call a local ethic. When traveling, however, I make sure my actions are equal to or better than whatever that ethic might be.

I think that's really just a technicality, to be honest. OK, it's your choice to follow the local ethic, but you do try to find out what the ethic is and do try to follow it. In my mind, that's really no different than simply following it.

I get your point, but I think the reality of the situation is that even for folks who decide to follow the local ethic they are still respecting that ethic. Lama is choosing not to, OK, so you're OK with him making that decision (and maybe not the decision itself, if I am allowed to guess). Personally, I agree with that because individual liberties, in my opinion, should reign supreme, but that doesn't mean climbers as a collective group should stand by without opinions.

I dunno, I guess like anything, it depends. Activism, in my mind, is a matter of convenience; we're only willing to go as far as we're willing to go. I belive very firmly in individual liberties, but sometimes those liberties infringe on the community. I have personally decided to defer my be belief in individual libertities to the community in this instance, mainly because the community is very strong and cares a lot.


qwert


Jan 31, 2011, 12:15 PM
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Re: [highcamp] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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New Developements!

http://www.david-lama.com/...pi1%5Bnewsuid%5D=220

Seems like David Lama has decided not to rap bolt the headwall!
More to be found here:
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/...torre-good-news.html

qwert


(This post was edited by qwert on Jan 31, 2011, 12:16 PM)


potreroed


Jan 31, 2011, 12:24 PM
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Re: [gmggg] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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gmggg wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
I say just say no to pro climbing. Keep climbing poor, keep it weird, keep it hard and make sure it stays a participant sport rather than a spectator sport with name brand athletes.

+1

Well said.

It's way too late for that. There have been professional climbers ever since mountain climbing began.


zealotnoob


Jan 31, 2011, 1:55 PM
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Re: [qwert] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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qwert wrote:
New Developements!

http://www.david-lama.com/...pi1%5Bnewsuid%5D=220

Seems like David Lama has decided not to rap bolt the headwall!
More to be found here:
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/...torre-good-news.html

qwert

Yay!


boymeetsrock


Jan 31, 2011, 2:05 PM
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Re: [qwert] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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Good on David for listening to the community. And good on the community for speaking up and policing ourselves.

Now I going to go grab a redbull and knock off this sick redpoint on my new Mammut rope.


TarHeelEMT


Jan 31, 2011, 3:47 PM
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Re: [qwert] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.


spikeddem


Jan 31, 2011, 4:04 PM
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Re: [TarHeelEMT] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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TarHeelEMT wrote:
Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.


dynosore


Jan 31, 2011, 4:48 PM
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Re: [spikeddem] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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spikeddem wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.


There's nothing to suggest it didn't either. Find something to do besides post on these threads you supposedly don't care about.


spikeddem


Jan 31, 2011, 4:49 PM
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dynosore wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.


There's nothing to suggest it didn't either.
I have some blinker fluid to sell to you.


rainman0915


Jan 31, 2011, 6:23 PM
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Re: [spikeddem] SIGN PETITION to Lama's sponsors; no support for bolting Cerro Torre [In reply to]
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spikeddem wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.

Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats!


spikeddem


Jan 31, 2011, 7:14 PM
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rainman0915 wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.

Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats!
You need blinker fluid, too.


airscape


Feb 1, 2011, 7:48 AM
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rainman0915 wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.

Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats!

You seem to be rather passionate about shit.

Does it really matter?

Are you going to climb it or have you ever climbed it?


airscape


Feb 1, 2011, 7:55 AM
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Who of you guys have ever been there?


rainman0915


Feb 2, 2011, 10:41 PM
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airscape wrote:
rainman0915 wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.

Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats!

You seem to be rather passionate about shit.

Does it really matter?

Are you going to climb it or have you ever climbed it?

have i ever? no. will i ever? im gona try. does is it matter? yes it does.


airscape


Feb 3, 2011, 6:30 AM
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rainman0915 wrote:
airscape wrote:
rainman0915 wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.

Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats!

You seem to be rather passionate about shit.

Does it really matter?

Are you going to climb it or have you ever climbed it?

have i ever? no. will i ever? im gona try. does is it matter? yes it does.

So no one has physically seen the actual disfigurement of the mountain?

That is very interesting.

So out of the 100000 or so users on this site, maybe about 10 people have actually ever been there, but eveyone should care about a few bolts on this huge ass mountain where almost no one ever goes.

I think the only people that should be concerned about this are people that HAVE climbed there.

THey could all go sit around a table with some coffe and discuss it between the 5 of them.


The problem with this type of hype is that in certain places this shit brings unwanted attention to climbing areas.
Politicians for instance hear "BOLTING MOUNTAINS" without knowing what that means and they make laws. I'm sure this has closed a lot of areas because some asshole wanted people to sign petitions.

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