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vegastradguy
Mar 1, 2011, 5:05 AM
Post #51 of 61
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: guangzhou wrote: I have to agree with the above, I don't see anything about the original post, what I found unprofessional was posting the internal email of this gym's operation. Personally, I think the OP is the only who is truly bother by this individual, everyone else just seems to except her. I get the feeling this is more of a personal grudge. Back on on the email posting, if I had sent that to one of my employees and he posted it online, I would lose trust in that person. If I can't trust your confidentiality, then I wouldn't want you working for me. It's not your gym, you're not the manager, so if the manager and the owners are fine with the way things are going, and you have spoken, emailed , or communicated with them you grievances about the situation and they don't think they need to take any action, you have couple of choice. QUIT Continue to work there and put up with it. Either way, the choice to be there or not is yours. I go back to a leadership seminar I was at a few years back and the advice given was "the boss never has a bad day". You can have problems, issues, even a crisis, but never a bad day. The shadow a leader casts sets what a whole business achieves. With the technology the way it is today, the shadow doesn't stop at the door, it extends well beyond. Your customers know how you treat your employees because the information on it won't be contained. It can't. Neither the employee nor the employer should ever presume that anything stored electronic is confidential. Just as everything in public is being filmed. Both employer and employe should assume their bad behavior will not be hidden. As for the just quit logic, life its not so simple. We are citizens of the world, let us not pretend we are otherwise. And from a peer, the advice of quit or shut up is OK. From a boss it is bullying.
its not so much about bad behavior as it is the expectation that something like conflicts between employees can be handled by management if management is at least told of the problem before the employees bitch about it to the internetz.
as an employer, i recognize that my employees have the freedom and the right to air their grievances, but i also expect that they allow me to do my part as well- which comes back to my point about professionalism in the workplace.
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jbro_135
Mar 1, 2011, 6:55 PM
Post #52 of 61
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wikileaks bro, your shit is going on the net whether you like it or not
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Gmburns2000
Mar 1, 2011, 7:19 PM
Post #53 of 61
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: guangzhou wrote: I have to agree with the above, I don't see anything about the original post, what I found unprofessional was posting the internal email of this gym's operation. Personally, I think the OP is the only who is truly bother by this individual, everyone else just seems to except her. I get the feeling this is more of a personal grudge. Back on on the email posting, if I had sent that to one of my employees and he posted it online, I would lose trust in that person. If I can't trust your confidentiality, then I wouldn't want you working for me. It's not your gym, you're not the manager, so if the manager and the owners are fine with the way things are going, and you have spoken, emailed , or communicated with them you grievances about the situation and they don't think they need to take any action, you have couple of choice. QUIT Continue to work there and put up with it. Either way, the choice to be there or not is yours. I go back to a leadership seminar I was at a few years back and the advice given was "the boss never has a bad day". You can have problems, issues, even a crisis, but never a bad day. The shadow a leader casts sets what a whole business achieves. With the technology the way it is today, the shadow doesn't stop at the door, it extends well beyond. Your customers know how you treat your employees because the information on it won't be contained. It can't. Neither the employee nor the employer should ever presume that anything stored electronic is confidential. Just as everything in public is being filmed. Both employer and employe should assume their bad behavior will not be hidden. As for the just quit logic, life its not so simple. We are citizens of the world, let us not pretend we are otherwise. And from a peer, the advice of quit or shut up is OK. From a boss it is bullying.
I'm still having a hard time understanding where you're getting the idea that the boss behaved poorly. Am I simply misinterpreting your statement?
Regardless of whether stuff gets out there or not, it is not professional to allow spats to become public. Try to handle them first in-house before engaging other parties.
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guangzhou
Mar 2, 2011, 1:02 AM
Post #54 of 61
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Gmburns2000 wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: guangzhou wrote: I have to agree with the above, I don't see anything about the original post, what I found unprofessional was posting the internal email of this gym's operation. Personally, I think the OP is the only who is truly bother by this individual, everyone else just seems to except her. I get the feeling this is more of a personal grudge. Back on on the email posting, if I had sent that to one of my employees and he posted it online, I would lose trust in that person. If I can't trust your confidentiality, then I wouldn't want you working for me. It's not your gym, you're not the manager, so if the manager and the owners are fine with the way things are going, and you have spoken, emailed , or communicated with them you grievances about the situation and they don't think they need to take any action, you have couple of choice. QUIT Continue to work there and put up with it. Either way, the choice to be there or not is yours. I go back to a leadership seminar I was at a few years back and the advice given was "the boss never has a bad day". You can have problems, issues, even a crisis, but never a bad day. The shadow a leader casts sets what a whole business achieves. With the technology the way it is today, the shadow doesn't stop at the door, it extends well beyond. Your customers know how you treat your employees because the information on it won't be contained. It can't. Neither the employee nor the employer should ever presume that anything stored electronic is confidential. Just as everything in public is being filmed. Both employer and employe should assume their bad behavior will not be hidden. As for the just quit logic, life its not so simple. We are citizens of the world, let us not pretend we are otherwise. And from a peer, the advice of quit or shut up is OK. From a boss it is bullying. I'm still having a hard time understanding where you're getting the idea that the boss behaved poorly. Am I simply misinterpreting your statement? Regardless of whether stuff gets out there or not, it is not professional to allow spats to become public. Try to handle them first in-house before engaging other parties.
In this case, the boss told one of his volunteer staff members that he knew about the situation and why he was tolerating it.
I don't see anything wrong with this reaction either.
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Gmburns2000
Mar 2, 2011, 2:02 AM
Post #55 of 61
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guangzhou wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: guangzhou wrote: I have to agree with the above, I don't see anything about the original post, what I found unprofessional was posting the internal email of this gym's operation. Personally, I think the OP is the only who is truly bother by this individual, everyone else just seems to except her. I get the feeling this is more of a personal grudge. Back on on the email posting, if I had sent that to one of my employees and he posted it online, I would lose trust in that person. If I can't trust your confidentiality, then I wouldn't want you working for me. It's not your gym, you're not the manager, so if the manager and the owners are fine with the way things are going, and you have spoken, emailed , or communicated with them you grievances about the situation and they don't think they need to take any action, you have couple of choice. QUIT Continue to work there and put up with it. Either way, the choice to be there or not is yours. I go back to a leadership seminar I was at a few years back and the advice given was "the boss never has a bad day". You can have problems, issues, even a crisis, but never a bad day. The shadow a leader casts sets what a whole business achieves. With the technology the way it is today, the shadow doesn't stop at the door, it extends well beyond. Your customers know how you treat your employees because the information on it won't be contained. It can't. Neither the employee nor the employer should ever presume that anything stored electronic is confidential. Just as everything in public is being filmed. Both employer and employe should assume their bad behavior will not be hidden. As for the just quit logic, life its not so simple. We are citizens of the world, let us not pretend we are otherwise. And from a peer, the advice of quit or shut up is OK. From a boss it is bullying. I'm still having a hard time understanding where you're getting the idea that the boss behaved poorly. Am I simply misinterpreting your statement? Regardless of whether stuff gets out there or not, it is not professional to allow spats to become public. Try to handle them first in-house before engaging other parties. In this case, the boss told one of his volunteer staff members that he knew about the situation and why he was tolerating it. I don't see anything wrong with this reaction either.
hmmm...I didn't get that impression. I got the impression he was trying to find a way to deal with it, but that may be just the way I read it.
But either way, that's acceptable, too.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 3, 2011, 1:35 AM
Post #56 of 61
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Gmburns2000 wrote: guangzhou wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: guangzhou wrote: I have to agree with the above, I don't see anything about the original post, what I found unprofessional was posting the internal email of this gym's operation. Personally, I think the OP is the only who is truly bother by this individual, everyone else just seems to except her. I get the feeling this is more of a personal grudge. Back on on the email posting, if I had sent that to one of my employees and he posted it online, I would lose trust in that person. If I can't trust your confidentiality, then I wouldn't want you working for me. It's not your gym, you're not the manager, so if the manager and the owners are fine with the way things are going, and you have spoken, emailed , or communicated with them you grievances about the situation and they don't think they need to take any action, you have couple of choice. QUIT Continue to work there and put up with it. Either way, the choice to be there or not is yours. I go back to a leadership seminar I was at a few years back and the advice given was "the boss never has a bad day". You can have problems, issues, even a crisis, but never a bad day. The shadow a leader casts sets what a whole business achieves. With the technology the way it is today, the shadow doesn't stop at the door, it extends well beyond. Your customers know how you treat your employees because the information on it won't be contained. It can't. Neither the employee nor the employer should ever presume that anything stored electronic is confidential. Just as everything in public is being filmed. Both employer and employe should assume their bad behavior will not be hidden. As for the just quit logic, life its not so simple. We are citizens of the world, let us not pretend we are otherwise. And from a peer, the advice of quit or shut up is OK. From a boss it is bullying. I'm still having a hard time understanding where you're getting the idea that the boss behaved poorly. Am I simply misinterpreting your statement? Regardless of whether stuff gets out there or not, it is not professional to allow spats to become public. Try to handle them first in-house before engaging other parties. In this case, the boss told one of his volunteer staff members that he knew about the situation and why he was tolerating it. I don't see anything wrong with this reaction either. hmmm...I didn't get that impression. I got the impression he was trying to find a way to deal with it, but that may be just the way I read it. But either way, that's acceptable, too.
Did the boss do something wrong? Yes. The boss (and I’ll assume it is a she) didn’t act as if the spate wasn’t going to end up on the interweb. She needs to assume that her behavior will end up fodder for public commentary. It used to be that only the rich and famous got that kind of treatment, now we all get to share in the “fun”. Smoking dope at a party? Post that photo of Mr. Phelps. Call a heckler ‘nigger’? Watch youtube eat that up. Now anyone can walk into a fountain while texting, and the next day you are simply known as “texting fountain lady”. You (and me) need to act at all times as if the camera is on and the messages are being recorded. Because they are.
Management expecting problems to be brought first to them? Really? How many cell phones do you see at your gym where people are filming their kids climbing? Don’t you think they capture employee rudeness? Do you think they share it first with you or the web?
Confidentiality is such a quaint notion of days gone by. Your phone knows where you have been, your DVR recorded everything you watched and which adds you skipped through, companies ask for your zip code so they can match up your credit card with their mailing list, and we haven’t even begun to talk about what google knows about you (and isn’t telling, but is selling).
Public and private have merged. “Private” is only a public item that no one cares about.
But, could the boss have done anything different? Probably not. However, reacting with indignation that what used to be private and now is public is to blame the messenger and not the medium.
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guangzhou
Mar 3, 2011, 2:28 AM
Post #57 of 61
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: guangzhou wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: guangzhou wrote: I have to agree with the above, I don't see anything about the original post, what I found unprofessional was posting the internal email of this gym's operation. Personally, I think the OP is the only who is truly bother by this individual, everyone else just seems to except her. I get the feeling this is more of a personal grudge. Back on on the email posting, if I had sent that to one of my employees and he posted it online, I would lose trust in that person. If I can't trust your confidentiality, then I wouldn't want you working for me. It's not your gym, you're not the manager, so if the manager and the owners are fine with the way things are going, and you have spoken, emailed , or communicated with them you grievances about the situation and they don't think they need to take any action, you have couple of choice. QUIT Continue to work there and put up with it. Either way, the choice to be there or not is yours. I go back to a leadership seminar I was at a few years back and the advice given was "the boss never has a bad day". You can have problems, issues, even a crisis, but never a bad day. The shadow a leader casts sets what a whole business achieves. With the technology the way it is today, the shadow doesn't stop at the door, it extends well beyond. Your customers know how you treat your employees because the information on it won't be contained. It can't. Neither the employee nor the employer should ever presume that anything stored electronic is confidential. Just as everything in public is being filmed. Both employer and employe should assume their bad behavior will not be hidden. As for the just quit logic, life its not so simple. We are citizens of the world, let us not pretend we are otherwise. And from a peer, the advice of quit or shut up is OK. From a boss it is bullying. I'm still having a hard time understanding where you're getting the idea that the boss behaved poorly. Am I simply misinterpreting your statement? Regardless of whether stuff gets out there or not, it is not professional to allow spats to become public. Try to handle them first in-house before engaging other parties. In this case, the boss told one of his volunteer staff members that he knew about the situation and why he was tolerating it. I don't see anything wrong with this reaction either. hmmm...I didn't get that impression. I got the impression he was trying to find a way to deal with it, but that may be just the way I read it. But either way, that's acceptable, too. Sorry for the slight delay in posting. I needed to put a little bit more into the reply and needed to get the time needed to clear up my point. Did the boss do something wrong? Yes. The boss (and I’ll assume it is a she) didn’t act as if the spate wasn’t going to end up on the interweb. She needs to assume that her behavior will end up fodder for public commentary. It used to be that only the rich and famous got that kind of treatment, now we all get to share in the “fun”. Smoking dope at a party? Post that photo of Mr. Phelps. Call a heckler ‘nigger’? Watch youtube eat that up. Now anyone can walk into a fountain while texting, and the next day you are simply known as “texting fountain lady”. You (and me) need to act at all times as if the camera is on and the messages are being recorded. Because they are.
I don't think the boss did anything wrong. Professional behavior is professionalism behavior and internal emails should be treated with confidentiality if you're a professional. In this case, we're not talking about a broken law.
Fine, the camera is on me at all time, I can live with that, even if you're a bit over paranoid in my book.
In reply to: Management expecting problems to be brought first to them? Really? How many cell phones do you see at your gym where people are filming their kids climbing? Don’t you think they capture employee rudeness? Do you think they share it first with you or the web?
You're talking about two different issues here. One is employee relating a problem, the other is guest. As ateacher, if I percieve a problem or hear rumors that effect my school, I relate them to my boss as needed. I don't take that information and post it online for even more people to see.
In this case, we're talking a personality conflict between two gym volunteers. One who is presume to be "TOO SAFE," the other who seems to think he is more valuable to the gym than the first.
In reply to: Confidentiality is such a quaint notion of days gone by. Your phone knows where you have been, your DVR recorded everything you watched and which adds you skipped through, companies ask for your zip code so they can match up your credit card with their mailing list, and we haven’t even begun to talk about what google knows about you (and isn’t telling, but is selling).
I agree, they isa lot of information going back and forth, but I am still certain confidentiality is is a key part of the system in many businesses. Without confidentiality, business couldn't compete against one another because they could never hold a meeting or send an email.
Do some people break that confidentiality, yes they do. Just because more people are breaking confidentiality doesn't mean it's acceptable. People still lose jobs, careers, and lives because of it.
In reply to: Public and private have merged. “Private” is only a public item that no one cares about.
Please. Here, try this, walk down the street naked and see how much private and public have merged.
In reply to: But, could the boss have done anything different? Probably not. However, reacting with indignation that what used to be private and now is public is to blame the messenger and not the medium.
I blame the volunteer for not being professional enough. He was driven by his emotions, not his brain in this case. Again, if he were my employee, I would fire him, if he were a volunteer in my organization, I would remove him even faster.
I would simply let him know that if I can't trust him to keep my emails confidential, I can't trust him to deal with my guest/costumers. To me, this is a trust issue, if I can't trust you, you don't work, or volunteer, for me.
Business is competitive enough without having employees making the situation more complicated.
(This post was edited by guangzhou on Mar 3, 2011, 2:31 AM)
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 3, 2011, 12:41 PM
Post #58 of 61
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guangzhou wrote: I blame the volunteer for not being professional enough. He was driven by his emotions, not his brain in this case. Again, if he were my employee, I would fire him, if he were a volunteer in my organization, I would remove him even faster. I would simply let him know that if I can't trust him to keep my emails confidential, I can't trust him to deal with my guest/costumers. To me, this is a trust issue, if I can't trust you, you don't work, or volunteer, for me. Business is competitive enough without having employees making the situation more complicated.
Getting people to work for free, or low wages, to put more money in my pocket is tough enough without my making everything about me. Employees, because they are people, always make the situation more complicated. If you are willing to fire someone over something as petty as this, your employees won't trust you. If they don't trust you, they won't come to you first with problems and ideas and their best effort. It isn't you that needs to trust them, it is that they need to trust you. Just like it is cheaper to keep customers coming back than it is to get new sales, it is cheaper to have dedicated employees than to always be hiring new staff.
Think not "I can't trust them" but "why didn't they trust me more".
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 3, 2011, 1:09 PM
Post #59 of 61
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May I suggest "Trust Me: developing a leadership style people will follow"
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Gmburns2000
Mar 3, 2011, 3:34 PM
Post #60 of 61
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: guangzhou wrote: I blame the volunteer for not being professional enough. He was driven by his emotions, not his brain in this case. Again, if he were my employee, I would fire him, if he were a volunteer in my organization, I would remove him even faster. I would simply let him know that if I can't trust him to keep my emails confidential, I can't trust him to deal with my guest/costumers. To me, this is a trust issue, if I can't trust you, you don't work, or volunteer, for me. Business is competitive enough without having employees making the situation more complicated. Getting people to work for free, or low wages, to put more money in my pocket is tough enough without my making everything about me. Employees, because they are people, always make the situation more complicated. If you are willing to fire someone over something as petty as this, your employees won't trust you. If they don't trust you, they won't come to you first with problems and ideas and their best effort. It isn't you that needs to trust them, it is that they need to trust you. Just like it is cheaper to keep customers coming back than it is to get new sales, it is cheaper to have dedicated employees than to always be hiring new staff. Think not "I can't trust them" but "why didn't they trust me more".
I wouldn't trust anyone who publicly posted an e-mail of mine. I'd be pissed if a boss did that or an employee.
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guangzhou
Mar 3, 2011, 11:52 PM
Post #61 of 61
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: guangzhou wrote: I blame the volunteer for not being professional enough. He was driven by his emotions, not his brain in this case. Again, if he were my employee, I would fire him, if he were a volunteer in my organization, I would remove him even faster. I would simply let him know that if I can't trust him to keep my emails confidential, I can't trust him to deal with my guest/costumers. To me, this is a trust issue, if I can't trust you, you don't work, or volunteer, for me. Business is competitive enough without having employees making the situation more complicated. Getting people to work for free, or low wages, to put more money in my pocket is tough enough without my making everything about me. Employees, because they are people, always make the situation more complicated. If you are willing to fire someone over something as petty as this, your employees won't trust you. If they don't trust you, they won't come to you first with problems and ideas and their best effort. It isn't you that needs to trust them, it is that they need to trust you. Just like it is cheaper to keep customers coming back than it is to get new sales, it is cheaper to have dedicated employees than to always be hiring new staff. Think not "I can't trust them" but "why didn't they trust me more".
If other employees wanted to publicly post my work emails or other internal document for everyone to see, I wouldn't want them working for me either.
Trust is a two way road. In this case, he came to management with a problem, most likely the owner of the gym. The owner explained why and how he was dealing with it. He could have had a further discussion with the manager on the issue, instead, he decided to post it in a very public forum. He was wrong.
In this case, as a co-worker, I would stand with the manager for showing some empathy towards a person who seems to be having some trouble and I wouldn't trust the person who took the email public. I think the employees would understand, especially my paid employees who rely on the revenue of the gym to make a living.
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