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majid_sabet
Feb 25, 2011, 5:29 PM
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What do you think
two small plastic bottle cut in half , velcro inside one another. the first half bottle goes over the top rope and the second half goes under the second rope both cones facing out. you pull the rope and the cone allows ropes to fall smoother
Good idea
Bad Idea
YGD
Crazy wabitt
actually, even better, one piece flexible plastic flat with velcro when open but then when closed, it would be two cones back to back with proper diameter to hold the knot and tail. ( MS patent pending)
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Feb 25, 2011, 6:10 PM)
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chadnsc
Feb 25, 2011, 5:33 PM
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I assume that the 'cones' are covering the knot joining the two ropes togeather?
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scottek67
Feb 25, 2011, 5:44 PM
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Crazy wabitt
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sp115
Feb 25, 2011, 5:49 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: What do you think two small plastic bottle cut in half , velcro inside one another. the first half bottle goes over the top rope and the second half goes under the second rope both cones facing out. you pull the rope and the cone allows ropes to fall smoother Good idea Bad Idea YGD Crazy wabitt
What do you do with the tails of the knot?
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potreroed
Feb 25, 2011, 5:59 PM
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Hey, great idea. I'm gonna run right out and cut up some plastic bottles to carry around with me whenever I go climbing.
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sbaclimber
Feb 25, 2011, 6:00 PM
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sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: What do you think two small plastic bottle cut in half , velcro inside one another. the first half bottle goes over the top rope and the second half goes under the second rope both cones facing out. you pull the rope and the cone allows ropes to fall smoother Good idea Bad Idea YGD Crazy wabitt What do you do with the tails of the knot?
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majid_sabet
Feb 25, 2011, 6:05 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: What do you think two small plastic bottle cut in half , velcro inside one another. the first half bottle goes over the top rope and the second half goes under the second rope both cones facing out. you pull the rope and the cone allows ropes to fall smoother Good idea Bad Idea YGD Crazy wabitt What do you do with the tails of the knot? how much tail do you have!?
2-3 inches wrap around inside the cone
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jbro_135
Feb 25, 2011, 6:10 PM
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potreroed wrote: Hey, great idea. I'm gonna run right out and cut up some plastic bottles to carry around with me whenever I go climbing.
hahaha
+1
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majid_sabet
Feb 25, 2011, 6:11 PM
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chadnsc wrote: I assume that the 'cones' are covering the knot joining the two ropes togeather?
very similar to big wall haul line over the haul bag
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sbaclimber
Feb 25, 2011, 6:43 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: sbaclimber wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: What do you think two small plastic bottle cut in half , velcro inside one another. the first half bottle goes over the top rope and the second half goes under the second rope both cones facing out. you pull the rope and the cone allows ropes to fall smoother Good idea Bad Idea YGD Crazy wabitt What do you do with the tails of the knot? how much tail do you have!? 2-3 inches wrap around inside the cone 
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kachoong
Feb 25, 2011, 7:07 PM
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You might as well just wrap duct tape around the whole knot and tails.
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happiegrrrl
Feb 25, 2011, 7:14 PM
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I think the plastic bottles would get beat to hell too quickly to make it worthwhile, plus dying of humiliation from being seen with them dangling from my harness is not the way I want to go...
That said - That it gave you the idea for the covering made of a simpler material is worth having the idea. I would never buy such a thing, but....there are plenty who would, no doubt.
If you could make such a thing that would actually work, and not end up being just as liable to get stuck as knots, then you would probably have a viable product and could make millionssss...well, maybe a couple bucks.
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wonderwoman
Feb 25, 2011, 7:25 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: you pull the rope and the cone allows ropes to fall smoother
Unless the bulky cone gets caught up on a branch or other cliff-side protrusion that a simple knot might otherwise easily be pulled through.
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chadnsc
Feb 25, 2011, 7:27 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you pull the rope and the cone allows ropes to fall smoother Unless the bulky cone gets caught up on a branch or other cliff-side protrusion that a simple knot might otherwise easily be pulled through.
Shhhh. You'll hurt Majid's feelings. 
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sp115
Feb 25, 2011, 7:56 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: majid_sabet wrote: sbaclimber wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: What do you think two small plastic bottle cut in half , velcro inside one another. the first half bottle goes over the top rope and the second half goes under the second rope both cones facing out. you pull the rope and the cone allows ropes to fall smoother Good idea Bad Idea YGD Crazy wabitt What do you do with the tails of the knot? how much tail do you have!? 2-3 inches wrap around inside the cone I figured you would have a sensible amount, which is why I was asking sp115...
Ah, I see, I thought you might have been asking about a different amount of tail (please insert the smilely emoticon that I somehow can't bear to type).
As for rope tails, I prefer a bit more like 6-8 inches. No knot that I have ever tied has rolled, but for some reason 2-3 inches just doesn't allow me to feel safe.
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sbaclimber
Feb 25, 2011, 8:05 PM
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sp115 wrote: sbaclimber wrote: majid_sabet wrote: sbaclimber wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: What do you think two small plastic bottle cut in half , velcro inside one another. the first half bottle goes over the top rope and the second half goes under the second rope both cones facing out. you pull the rope and the cone allows ropes to fall smoother Good idea Bad Idea YGD Crazy wabitt What do you do with the tails of the knot? how much tail do you have!? 2-3 inches wrap around inside the cone I figured you would have a sensible amount, which is why I was asking sp115... Ah, I see, I thought you might have been asking about a different amount of tail (please insert the smilely emoticon that I somehow can't bear to type). As for rope tails, I prefer a bit more like 6-8 inches. No knot that I have ever tied has rolled, but for some reason 2-3 inches just doesn't allow me to feel safe. 
Even 6-8" should still fit in the bottles though, wouldn't it...?
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kachoong
Feb 25, 2011, 8:10 PM
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Edit the thread title... it doesn't make any sense. No more what?
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majid_sabet
Feb 25, 2011, 8:16 PM
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kachoong wrote: Edit the thread title... it doesn't make any sense. No more what?
jugging, no more having your rope stuck 40 m up on some stupid crack
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kachoong
Feb 25, 2011, 8:19 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: kachoong wrote: Edit the thread title... it doesn't make any sense. No more what? jugging, no more having your rope stuck 40 m up on some stupid crack
I realize this, but it doesn't help the title much.
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sp115
Feb 25, 2011, 8:32 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: "Even 6-8" should still fit in the bottles though, wouldn't it...?
Depending on the bottle size, I suppose that would be true enough.
But at the risk of jinxing a perfect record of never having a rope stuck when being pulled, and with the double-risk of sounding stupid...is the knot the primary culprit of stuck ropes?
If my admittedly weak memory serves me, it seems the only time I've had a rope get tangled was dropping the ropes while rapping. In those cases it stuck because it simply wrapped around something and wasn't going anywhere, knot of no knot.
(This post was edited by sp115 on Feb 25, 2011, 8:33 PM)
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billl7
Feb 26, 2011, 12:49 AM
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sp115 wrote: But at the risk of jinxing a perfect record of never having a rope stuck when being pulled, and with the double-risk of sounding stupid...is the knot the primary culprit of stuck ropes?
Good question. Of the six times that come to mind, five were not because of the knot. One probably was but could not see the stickage point.
I use the EDK. May have saved some grief over the years. Perhaps Majid prefers the double fishermans?
Bill L
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climbingtrash
Feb 26, 2011, 4:00 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: kachoong wrote: Edit the thread title... it doesn't make any sense. No more what? jugging, no more having your rope stuck 40 m up on some stupid crack
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sp115
Feb 26, 2011, 4:26 AM
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billl7 wrote: ...I use the EDK. May have saved some grief over the years. Bill L
Sort of what I was thinking.
(This post was edited by sp115 on Feb 26, 2011, 4:26 AM)
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marc801
Feb 26, 2011, 7:12 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: kachoong wrote: Edit the thread title... it doesn't make any sense. No more what? jugging, no more having your rope stuck 40 m up on some stupid crack
It's not the huge problem you think it is, and certainly not enough to make me want to carry more garbage on a climb.
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cacalderon
Feb 26, 2011, 12:01 PM
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crazy wabitt
(This post was edited by cacalderon on Feb 26, 2011, 12:02 PM)
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rgold
Feb 26, 2011, 4:45 PM
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Like Marc, I've got a lot of years in---53, but who's counting. I haven't been as lucky or as skillful though, in that time I've had four rappels I couldn't retrieve---at least not right away.
Two of them were raps that couldn't be pulled at all because of friction. One case, in a storm on Steeple Peak in the Wind Rivers, did require reascending the ropes and rerigging the rappel. In the other case, on the South Howser Tower in the Bugaboos, we yarded hard on the ropes and pulled the entire anchor off (yikes!).
In the other two cases, one on the descent from the Durrance Route on Devils Tower and the other on Solar Slab in Red Rock, the trailing rope hung up after coming free of the anchor.
In both cases, we were able to use the rope we had in hand to ascend and free the stuck rope. In both these cases, we would have been stranded if we had been using a thin tag line you can't lead on. The Devil's Tower situation would have been merely embarrassing, but the Solar Slab hang-up would have involved at least a bivouac in cold and very windy conditions and then depending on other parties to show up the next day to help---something that could conceivably not happen if the next day was stormy.
These experiences, widely-spaced as they were, convinced me to absolutely never use a tag line that couldn't be used as a lead rope in any place that was even a little remote. But once you are dragging a leadable tag line, you're better off with double half-ropes, which is what I settled on for many additional reasons.
I might add that in none of the situations I described was the knot the thing that jammed. Nonetheless, I believe that using a knot that is less prone to jamming (and also reduces the pulling effort required) is a sensible precaution.
As with any such precautions, one can overshoot the mark and head down the road to excessive and unwieldy procedures. I'd put the velcro'ed coke bottles in that category for me, but of course risk and safety are in the eye of the beholder.
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happiegrrrl
Feb 26, 2011, 4:55 PM
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rgold wrote: ...on the South Howser Tower in the Bugaboos, we yarded hard on the ropes and pulled the entire anchor off (yikes!).  I'm sure it's funny now(sort of) but then?
In reply to: These experiences, widely-spaced as they were, convinced me to absolutely never use a tag line that couldn't be used as a lead rope in any place that was even a little remote. But once you are dragging a leadable tag line, you're better off with double half-ropes, which is what I settled on for many additional reasons.
Thanks for that rgold - great advice
(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Feb 26, 2011, 4:57 PM)
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marc801
Feb 26, 2011, 5:03 PM
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rgold wrote: Like Marc, I've got a lot of years in---53, but who's counting. I haven't been as lucky or as skillful though, in that time I've had four rappels I couldn't retrieve---at least not right away.
However, I'm going to recant my earlier post about never having a rope get stuck. There was indeed one time that I had forgotten about where we would have had to reclimb the first two pitches of Dark Shadows (Red Rocks, NV) if another party hadn't been descending after us.
You can get to the ground in a single rap from the top of P2 with double ropes. I forget the exact anchors, but there were some kind of chains and quicklinks involved. On the pulldown, because of the location of the links and the knobs of rock, just before the end slid through the anchor, somehow merely a loop - not a knot - formed in the last few inches of the rope and firmly wedged between the links and the rock. Three of us standing well out from the wall were unable to free it. Obviously though, this had nothing to do with the knot joining the two ropes.
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