Whats the fascination with 5.12?

I thought these calculations have been done (by better means than yours).

If I recall correctly, either climbing or Rock and Ice did a poll like that a couple of year ago, and found that only ~25% of respondents (people who subscribed to the magazine and responded) climbed above 5.10. By extrapolating from that, I will say that the percentage of people who climb >5.12 is ~5%.

My verdict is, your poll would be hopelessly skewed, too, because people tend to associate with other of similar ability. 5.12+ climbers are more likely to personally know more than a 'fair' share of other 5.12+ climbers, so it wouldn't be representative...

...better climbers will associate with better climbers, but by removing the "spray" aspect I was hoping that more people would participate. I still expect that the count will be high, in part due to the self selecting nature of the site, let alone people who would degrade themselves to reply to this thread.

I agree with Lena. About half the climbers I know climb 5.12. However, I do see way more people at the crag who I don't know that don't.

Can you clarify your definition of climbing 5.12.

Consistently on-sight

Red-point

Trad and sport

I know and meets lots of climbers who red point 5.12 here and there, but I don't meet as many who are what I consider 5.12 climbers.

For the purposes here, lets go with the lower definition. Someone who can red point a 5.12.

One of the reasons I set some of the criteria above is that by saying "own a rope" is a line to call someone who climbs a "climber". Now this is an arbitrary point and one could easily say that unless you climb 5.10 (or other number) you aren't a climber.

Absolutely, better climbers will associate with better climbers, but by removing the "spray" aspect I was hoping that more people would participate. I still expect that the count will be high, in part due to the self selecting nature of the site, let alone people who would degrade themselves to reply to this thread.

Oh, and your stalker has gone to 5 stars away from 1. (Either that or someone really quickly loved your post).

My verdict is, your poll would be hopelessly skewed, too, because people tend to associate with other of similar ability. 5.12+ climbers are more likely to personally know more than a 'fair' share of other 5.12+ climbers, so it wouldn't be representative...

The same is true for sub-5.12. Birds of a feather, Lena!

You're formula sounds sexier but it s no better in determining how many people can climb 5.12. Off the top of my head I'd say that nearly 50% of the climbers that I know (outside of those that I've guided for work) have red-pointed 5.12. At least half of them (so 20 to 25% overall) do it very consistently.

I doubt that is a true representation of the rock climbing public.

EDITED to add that camhead is correct in saying that there is overlap. I forgot to add him and johnL (angry) but I have met both of them and they both climb 5.12. They would both be in lena's group of 5.12 climbers as well.

Hey Ryan, where have we met? I just realized that I recognize you from your mp.com pics.

We played scrabble at Miguel's in KY one night. Adam and I were around for a few weeks w/ some friends, I think we had just spent October at the New and we met you and John in early November?

I remember that John had just been on (sent?) Welcome to Old Kentuck and I had just broken Tacos' blue Alien. She was a Japanese girl that has since been in a horrible car accident. Anyways, I had just fallen on her Alien and she wasn't happy about it and we had John look at it since he had worked for CCH.

I've talked to John a few times about Bermuda, titanium bolts and whatnot. I was actually thinking of taking that job before he did... sounds like it's all over now though.

Hope you guys are both doing well!

One other thing that makes this approach so difficult is overlap. The climbing community is very small. I would be willing to bet that of all the 5.12 climbers that I and Lena know, we have at least 20 in common.

I think that the best way to determine this would be to take a random sample of people who have bought a standard piece of equipment in the last year (most likely a rope), and ask what their highest redpoint was.

Give it until midday tomorrow. 1-starers will come. Of course, there is hope that they might get tired of it, eventually.

for the sake of argument, and that I am putting off work responsibilities.

By 5.12, you must mean sport climbers. By that measure there are tons.

By 5.12 trad all around bad ass clmbers, there aren't that many.

Know: 18
Climb 5.12: 1

Liar. There aren't 18 climbers in Nebraska.

Josh

I thought these calculations have been done (by better means than yours).

If I recall correctly, either climbing or Rock and Ice did a poll like that a couple of year ago, and found that only ~25% of respondents (people who subscribed to the magazine and responded) climbed above 5.10. By extrapolating from that, I will say that the percentage of people who climb >5.12 is ~5%.

But if I look at people I personally know... let's see. If I take 107 climbers who are on my facebook friends list, 56 of them climb at least 5.12.

My verdict is, your poll would be hopelessly skewed, too, because people tend to associate with other of similar ability. 5.12+ climbers are more likely to personally know more than a 'fair' share of other 5.12+ climbers, so it wouldn't be representative...