For those climbers who have done FA for personal, or to be known as the first climber to free a particular climb . What was your reason?

As well as climbers who have found areas in the wilderness, making it into climbers destination.
It is usually a costly, time consuming endeavor with little or no reward.

Was the effort worth the end result?
Was it to leave a part of you for other climbers to enjoy?

I think it is a contribution to the comunity. but the reason I want to do new routes is more of looking for my own adventure. repeating routes, is repeating someone elses adventure. and like was stated before. I don't like the trashed areas where everyone goes. we nee to have some peace and quiet in the woods by ourselves onece in a while right.

Very true!

Some climbers, like Todd Skinner, try to put up routes that are so difficult that nobody else can climb them. Others, like Jim Beyer, put up A5 scarefests that nobody wants to go near. My goal has always been to create routes that can be climbed every day by average warriors. And yes, all the work has been well worth it.

You couldn't be more on the mark from my perspective Healyje. I find people motivations for "FA's" rather suspect when they start using terms like community service, creating lines for the masses, etc.

If you have no knowledge of a particular route, no line drawing, no gear beata, no grade, then it is a first ascent FOR YOU! Who gives a rats ass if anyone has ever climbed it before? does it make a difference to your experience at the moment?

I seriously want to bitch slap people when I hear them say FA. It's so f***ing pretentious! What you really mean is that you were the first person to record your ascent. To assume anything else is just that..presumption.

Personally, I find the whole notion of 'community service' in climbing dubious, misplaced, and suspect.

I seriously want to bitch slap people when I hear them say FA. It's so f***ing pretentious! What you really mean is that you were the first person to record your ascent. To assume anything else is just that..presumption.

You've got to be joking. You've done more "community service" than anyone I know.


That's a pretty retarded statement.

Better watch out. here comes rangern00b to bitchslap ya!

You've got to be joking. You've done more "community service" than anyone I know.

There isn't a single thing I've done out at Beacon that wasn't motivated by the sole purpose of me personally getting more climbing days out there, without sport routes, and with a minimum of gov't intervention. None of it was done for 'community service' and has all been pure selfishness from a climbing perspective.

So gluing a hold on a 5.7 was for your own selfish reasons?

Placing anchor bolts in the middle of pitches on classic routes

replacing anchors on routes that you never do? That was all so you could get in more climbing days? Ok, my bad I guess you are selfish.

Yer a funny guy Joe. Keep it real. Yo.

Oh and I heard that you claimed the FA of Stone Rodeo. Was that before or after it was chipped?

Dude, explain to me how that statement you quoted from me is retarded. You are assuming no one has climbed that particular section of cliff, or boulder, but you don't know that for a certainty. It may be a good guess, but it's still a guess.

Oh and by the way, I'm mentally challenged, not retarded. let's get a little PC here.

Fair enough Joe. You are a selfish climber. I guess that's why you are always climbing by yourself.

Fair enough Joe. You are a selfish climber. I guess that's why you are always climbing by yourself.

I thought your glue job was well done btw.

Good thing we've got climbers out there like Opdyke trying to make Beacon a better place for other climbers.

So I'm thinking of putting a new area up , sport climbing and bolts . Have been looking at some places in Wyoming. So what's your opinion?

I just clicked on that picture and realized I actually named very few of those routes. Usually it was the person I was with who named it, and I suppose that reflects my lack of literacy or imaginative....or most likely both.

I usually was fine with any name suggested. Grey Ghost was an old Dog of Ben's that had passed on and that was his wife's idea to name a route after the pup. Ill add that my son named the one we did called "Runaway Weasel". He wanted to name the next one "Prancing Unicorn"....but a man has has to be a man and draw the line someplace: and Prancing Unicorn was just over the line for a route name.

Furthermore, I just realized that I screwed up the bolt count and didn't really do all of the routes out there. I did all the routes in the picture except one. (maybe screwed up a bunch of other stuff as well) Adam Winslow and I did Bewitched up the buttress of the Old Witch Pinnacle (Ben and Scott are on her in the picture below) , but 2 guys came in later and did a fine direct over the roof variation on Bewitched that added 2 more bolts. In fact, the one fella I've gotten to know much better since then and have been getting out some with. He took that 2nd picture up there of my wyde ass in the offwidth. Chad Ellers. Chad had done the Bewitched Direct line with his buddy Josh and they were his bolts. My involvement in that was limited to having Chad ask me what I though of the direct idea. ("Woot! go fer it dude!")

Whew. Start forgetting stuff right away. I remember that all I could think of all winter was that route. I named it Bewitched cause that's what happened to me. The snow came and locked the place up tighter than a parakeets asshole. I thought of it only when I was awake, I thought of it when I was sleeping. I thought of it when I was at work. I looked at pictures of it day and night. I thought it it during conversations, I though of the route while having sex, while watching a movie. Day and night night and day. In the car. In the house. While outside. I thought of it while yelling at the kids. I though of it at parties. No joke, had multiple dreams of the bitch and it went on for many many months. I literally woke up every morning thinking of it, usually remembering the dream I'd been having of it. But the point is that I did all the routes except that Chad and Josh later did the direct variation on Bewitched and added 2 bolts.

These 2 guys seen doing a repeat of a route below on the only gear only/no bolt route out there named a few of them. I did this route ground up solo. Here's a close up looking out from the cliff, the lower picture of Ben and Scott is the same pinnacle but looking the other direction.
[image]http://www.mountainproject.com/images/72/66/106867266_medium_820fe8.jpg[/image]
Ben (Priestly) the one dressed in Orange on top in this picture had the Grey Ghost idea (you can click on it to see it better). The lower fella, Scott Peterson coming up, named a couple of others including the one that still cracks me up "Better than Sex". LOL!

You can click on it and make it larger or you can't see them hardly at all, but this is the same pinnacle and route as seen in the upper picture.
[img]http://www.mountainproject.com/images/50/91/106865091_large_c115cd.jpg[/img]
Some of these things still need 2nd and even 3rd pitches. I ran out of juice and moved on although I can tell from this very post that not all of the craziness has left me yet. In either case, although I did all the lines, it's most likely time to give her to the world and walk away......YES! MUST WALK A>>W>>A>>Y>>>!!!NO!

NO....must have my preciousssssss.......
[img]http://www.mountainproject.com/images/79/6/106617906_medium_85ab70.jpg[/img]

Seriously psychotic. No joke. It's damn dirty, dangerous, brutally hard work and a thankless task. Do it cause you want too. I have a dog that's hardwired to kill small rodents and rats. But I've also seen lots of dogs that won't even look twice at a rat, yet this one LOVES it. The anticipation, the chase, the grab, the shake, the blood. Everything. Hardwired. Maybe you'll try it and dislike it, maybe not. At least see how the game gets played and how you feel about it. Shake out a couple of routes and see.


Shit. Recovery is a long process.

Hope it helps you out some.

No one will care, those that do will be pissed that you:

A) Bolted too closely. You dumbass.
B) Didn't use enough bolts and left it runout. You Asshole.
C) Left a lot of loose rocks you should have gone back 4 or 5 trips and cleaned off. Asshole.
D) Didn't accurately grade it so as to make yourself a better climber than the wanker you are. Self-centered prick.
E) Didn't make a good trail. Lazy asswipe.
F) Disturbed the natural lay of the land when you put in an illegal trail to get to the cliff. Dickhead.
G) Have no business putting in bolts anywhere anytime. Prick.
H) All of the above. Have a nice day.

For me, I suppose that it's a psychotic thing you get locked into, much like a train rolling downhill with no brakes or a dog chasing it's tail and unable to stop. It makes no sense to anyone watching and you can't even explain it away either. It just is. You are out on some of the most unique and fantastic places on Gods green earth - places no human has trod on since the planet was formed. The safety and comfort of the well trod path is left behind. I have almost died alone in the middle of nowhere doing this and the only creatures that would have known where I was would have been the crows pecking my eyes out and greedily feasting on the carrion that was formerly my body. You develop a tight sense of community with a small clique of people, as few really want to do the heavy lifting and get the job done or even experience something like this.

I can only dream of the stuff Potero Ed has done, but have had a few pretty rare experiences myself. I'll share one or 2 with a visual. There are 358 stainless steel bolts and 20 rappel points (so 40 placements) consisting of Stainless steel Fixe sport hangers in approx 3000 feet of routes in the following picture.

(if you click on it it will get bigger and you can see the routes better)
[image]http://www.mountainproject.com/images/71/48/107187148_large_b39ad3.jpg?1308937409[/image] 356 of the bolts and all of the rap anchors were bought by me. They were all placed by me or I was there watching them being placed by some of the best damn folks on the planet. I either named every route or let the buddy I did the route with name it.

I've gotten to climb with some kick assed amazing folks of all skill levels in an environment as unique and rare as few climbers will ever get to enjoy in their lives. Setting foot on something new is reminiscent of any pioneering effort and makes you appreciate all of the hardships others from all points of history doing all kinds of strange things that have no relationship to climbing. It was the pioneering thing that ties them together. I don't even like climbing bolted routes generally. But worth all of it.

Here's a recent FA where there will most likely be some righteous indignation tossed my way:-)
[image]http://cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/medium/wyde_side_6.JPG[/image]
You can't see it but I walked a #12 Valley Giant up this crack. You can see the biner at my knee. The rest of the pro was marginal. So based on that I didn't place any bolts, I'd go with B, C and D from above. LOL! No one I know has a 12 inch cam but me:-)

My advise, since you asked. Do it. Be the asshole who walks alone on the path of mixed righteousness, fear and exhilaration though the prairie so that others can follow. They may call you an asshole cause you trampled on the grass, but you don't have to give a fuck on all the hatin', cause you got the experience that few in this world can get these days and it's worth every damn nickle and minute you spend on it.

Do it.


Then post up the pictures so we can all pee on you, your route, #H (all of the above) and hate on your selfishness. LOL! Nah, do it, be damn careful, the amount of things that want to kill you are much higher than you might suppose. Do the right thing and the rest of this shit will fall into place.

I'm going to stick to the areas that are available for now. Too much work considering the personal investment. Your story helped me decide not to go forward.

Hope you can publish your story in a Climbing magazine .
Its very well written.
Thanks for your time, beta and photos.
Enjoy climbing !

Thanks again for all your work!

Damn it, I was trying to say that despite all of the pain, the personal satisfaction alone make it worth it. I'd bet that Magic Portro Ed up thread, who has 10 times the mileage I have, would say the same thing. Those 2 guys bickering up thread, I've done new routes with em both and I'd bet they'd say the same thing, which is: go for it!

That is the kindest thing I heard all day. You're welcome. However, it goes against the thought I had that no one gives a real rats ass, unless it's to complain:-) Climbing magazine? Woot! Don't they pay like $50 for one of those stories? I'm in. Seriously, if they ask me I'll do it.

Now just wait, 2 thank yews is definitely over the top. Do I owe you some money or sumpin..cause I'll be paying it fer sure, jes need a lil time is all....mumble mumble walks off head down all embarrassed like .......