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victorblanco
May 1, 2003, 9:01 PM
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:twisted: :cry: :shock: :x Please help!
My quickdraws were stolen off of "The Example" at the Gym area at Shelf Road on 4-27-03. Two witnesses said they saw a short, stocky blonde man run up a 5.10 called "Crack of Dawn", lower down and clean his own draws, then go back to the anchor, traverse down to the anchor of "The Example", leave one draw in the anchor as a directional and then clean the other six off the route.
He may have the name "Wolf" I was told, a bone necklace and a blonde girlfriend. I think I met him the day before at the "New Gym" and he may also have an accent, possibly South African. I equipped the route the day before (4-26-03) and these quickdraws were not abandoned!
If you have any info. or you are the culprit feeling guilt ridden please call or e-mail me to return:
Vance B. White
307-335-8507
victorblanco287@hotmail.com
QUICKDRAWS:
6(six) Metolious Draws, Silver and black, Black Diamond D(asymetrical) biners on the top and Quickwires on the rope end of the draw with Petzl rubber caps, each carabiner has/had silver duct tape on them as well.
Thank you! :o
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mbondvegas
May 1, 2003, 9:13 PM
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Lynch him! Dude, that sucks. :(
That's the problem with leaving draws around 'easy' climbs or places where it is easy to rap down the route.
It seems that some 'novice' climbers don't understand that stealing draws is wrong and will produce much bad karma.
I feel your pain bro. Hope you find the bastard! :evil:
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cloudbreak
May 1, 2003, 9:18 PM
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Your right, the piece of shiitt has some major bad Karma coming his way. I'll volunteer to hold him down while you work on his face. Don't forget to break a couple of fingers so he can't climb for awhile.
L8r and sorry to hear this,
marc
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camhead
May 1, 2003, 9:28 PM
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lame.
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mother_sheep
May 1, 2003, 9:29 PM
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In reply to: It seems that some 'novice' climbers don't understand that stealing draws is wrong and will produce much bad karma.
Even experts can be a$$holes.
Good luck!
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mountainmonkey
May 1, 2003, 10:16 PM
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If you left them there, then they weren't stolen.
Removing the draws was probably better for reducing the visual impact of climbers. Camouflaged bolts, webbing and rappel anchors are reccomended, and since your draws weren't comoflaged then they probably had a big visual impact.
I do not advocate removing other peoples draws that were left on a route. I also do not feel any sympathy for some one who lost their draws because they left them on the route. I do not like to see a route with draws hanging all over it. There is truely no difference in equipping bolts with draws and abandoning them - the only difference being in the heart of the person who left them.
Simple solution: don't leave anything behind and it won't get taken.
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cloudbreak
May 1, 2003, 11:07 PM
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Have you ever heard of a "project" mountainmonkey?
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psych
May 1, 2003, 11:15 PM
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Isn't there some sort of standardized "thing" you can put on your route if it's a project route? The color red comes to mind...totally forget now.
But that's just if you're going for a FA on it and you made the route, right? Not saying anything here, just I'd never trust my draws all the way up a route overnight, let alone for a couple days. Someone's bound to booty them, unless it's some sick hard, never been climbed, climb...with no TR access. :-)
Mike...
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salami
May 1, 2003, 11:17 PM
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I agree with Mtn Monkey. if no one is around then it is booty.
I have projects and I clean them when i am done for the day.
I am sorry for your loss but it only happened because you left them there.
If you just have to leave gear then try using Quick links with Locktite.
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jcinco
May 1, 2003, 11:39 PM
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In reply to: I agree with Mtn Monkey. if no one is around then it is booty. I have projects and I clean them when i am done for the day. I am sorry for your loss but it only happened because you left them there. If you just have to leave gear then try using Quick links with Locktite.
Don't be an idiot. Of course they're not booty if someone leaves draws on a route. We're not talking about a stuck cam cleaned on a multi-pitch, we are talking about draws left on a sport route overnight. We're not even talking about a set of ratty quickdraws that someone has left in situ and are a permanent, ugly, fixture. Clearly there is a difference. Leaving draws temporarily on a project is a generally well accepted practice in the climbing community.
Personally, I would never leave draws on a route at Shelf... it is a crowded area where the law of averages says there will be a**holes around who will take advantage.
As for the visual impact of leaving draws on a route... give me a break! Is the impact of those draws hanging for a couple days any worse then the real impact of 100 climbers and 25 dogs scattered along the base of Shelf's Cactus Cliff on a weekend between October and April. Get a little perspective before you post such drivel.
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bhudda
May 1, 2003, 11:51 PM
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This is nonsense! If you left it, it's booty. Why would you leave quickdraws on a route? left your stickclip at home?
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salami
May 2, 2003, 12:01 AM
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jcinco the only idiot is the one who leaves their gear in what sounds like a popular area and expects it to be there when they feel like getting back to it.
He!! If i was there and no one was around to "claim" their project pieces i would have bootied them too.
though i never use booty gear climbing it sure looks good on my christmas tree.
like I said earlier, too bad for the loss and maybe you should use Quick links and Locktite next time.
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jcinco
May 2, 2003, 12:12 AM
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In reply to: He!! If i was there and no one was around to "claim" their project pieces i would have bootied them too.
Precisely. It is because of people of questionable integrity, such as yourself, that you shouldn't leave draws on a route.
All I'm saying is that bootying draws left on a sport route, though not legally theft, is pretty damn lame....
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salami
May 2, 2003, 12:32 AM
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How was he "so called thief" to know that they were not for gotten by some gumbie? It is surprising how many people make mistakes like forgetting gear at anchors, leaving quickdraws, leaving whole racks, this usually happens when there is a group of people climbing multiple climbs.
There are 5 lessons one can learn from this situation.
1) Don't assume anything
2) Don't leave your friggen gear
3) Don't leave your friggen gear
4) Don't leave your friggen gear
5) and finally jcinco is a little too sensitive about this subject
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slappy
May 2, 2003, 1:14 AM
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The guy might have been a kiwi. As a kiwi (in my limited climbing experience) if I saw draws left on a route they'd be booty. He's probably not trying to rip you off but booty is hard to pass up. He also might have been a kiwi as it's kinda part of our culture to wear carved bone necklaces (they are sacred and are blessed by elders of the Maori community). Definitely booty tho.
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whichwayisup
May 2, 2003, 2:14 AM
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It is a bad idea to leave draws on a route that is easily accesible, but it is worse to booty them. I have seen several routes with draws left on them. I wouldn't even consider taking them. If most climbers wouldn't use booty, then why would they want to take them. Leave them for the individual who placed them, he is the only one that knows the condition of them.
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camhead
May 2, 2003, 2:38 AM
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this topic hasn't come up for a while.
anyway, kids, draws left on projects are NOT booty. go to any major hard sport destination, and you will see draws hanging. I have left draws hanging at certain locations in Utah for up to a month (yeah, I take a while to redpoint), and been confident that they are safe.
yeah, victor maybe shouldn't have left them hanging in a popular place, but they were not booty. if you think they are, then you are not a climber. simple enough.
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renobdarb
May 2, 2003, 3:13 AM
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In reply to: I have seen several routes with draws left on them. I wouldn't even consider taking them.
neither would i. that's despicible. but sooner or later someone will come along who will take them. it's not a matter of if, but when... a mere eventuality... from what i understand from these posts, this is a pretty popular and busy climbing area... would you leave your car unlocked in downtown Chicago and bitch when someone stole the sterio out of it??? maybe if the area was more secluded or unvisited you could've left your draws there for a day or two, but since this area sees so much traffic, you only have yourself to blame for what happened... it's crappy that there's people out there who'll do that, but you're living in Dream Land if you think they don't exist...
for what it's worth, i hope you find this guy and get them back...
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jcinco
May 2, 2003, 4:25 PM
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In reply to: How was he "so called thief" to know that they were not for gotten by some gumbie? It is surprising how many people make mistakes like forgetting gear at anchors, leaving quickdraws, leaving whole racks, this usually happens when there is a group of people climbing multiple climbs.
The Example is a 13a/b, one of the harder routes at Shelf. Clearly a gumby didn't "leave" them. And that's beside the point: if there is a draw left on every bolt, then clearly someone did not accidently leave them... they are working a project. This is what people do at sport areas!
In reply to: and finally jcinco is a little too sensitive about this subject
I'm sensitive about the subject because your attitude, as well as some others who have posted on this thread, demonstrates a total disegard and disrespect for other people. Your argument that "he asked for it" because people like you would booty the draws demonstrates my point. Climbing gear costs a lot of money and this version of "bootying" that you endorse is nothing more than taking advantage of your fellow climber.
The goal in climbing is not to go around scoring as much free gear you can from other climbers. Have a little respect for others. Don't be an a**hole and take advantage of the situation. Worse yet you risk getting the sh*t beat out of you if you get caught.
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sancho
May 2, 2003, 4:49 PM
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jcinco,
Remember that threatning to beat the sh*t out of someone tends to bring one bad carma too!
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salami
May 2, 2003, 4:54 PM
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All booty talk aside. You should remove your crap out of respect for others. lets say I wanted to work that route. Am I going to work a route with phantom strangers gear. he11 no, I will promptly remove their gear and use my own. Then when I am done I would REMOVE my gear (this is key not to get it stolen. blablabla whatever) and then clip all of the unknown strangers draws into one and put them somewhere after the crux. This will then inconvenience the person who left their crap on a public route that then inturn inconvenienced me.
jcinco are you this angry in person? or do you just act tough talking about beating people in your incontinent ramblings, safe behind a screen name in a online forum?
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trbrts
May 2, 2003, 5:03 PM
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Some of you guys are pretty week. If you steal any draws off my project or anyone elses I'll beat you down. QD's are expensive. People don't generally abandon them. If I'm just camping up the road and I'm going to be working on the same route tomorrow, why not leave a couple of draws on. Go ahead and climb on them. But don't steal them. 8) 8)
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cloudbreak
May 2, 2003, 5:04 PM
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In reply to: This will then inconvenience the person who left their crap on a public route that then inturn inconvenienced me.
.......how often do you come accross a "private" route!?!?!?
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victorblanco
May 2, 2003, 5:19 PM
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:evil: :shock: Alright folks. Here is the deal! Draws left overnight are not free for the taking. With that mindset you are opening a can of worms, for example:
tents, fixed lines, your camping gear on the table at the campsite, bolt hangers, hey maybe your car too because you left it overnight.
I'm really surprised at some of the idiotic people responding to this and feeling as though it is alright to steal another persons gear. Karma aside, stealing is stealing. Plain and simple.
Gumby or not, no one has the right to steal another persons gear. As far as the gear occupying the route, if you are not smart enough to tell whether a sling or carabiner is safe to use maybe you should go back and read some of John Long's books on basic gear and such. I do think that it is fair to use another climber's gear if they are not there to ask, if they are present be courteous and ask if it is ok, go from there.
Sport crags have their set of ethics and accepted practices, ranging from chipping (Potosi) to leaving draws (days to months) when working routes at one's abilities. Accept it. Don't' fu$#@g steal someone else's gear because you feel it is an eyesore. Visual impact is not the subject here, theft is. If you were truly worried about visual impacts you would not climb at all or drive cars etc.
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drkodos
May 2, 2003, 5:23 PM
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Bad analogies...
Faulty logic.
Campsites are Real Property....draws are personal property. According to the law, leaving draws on a climb is forfeiture of personal property.
Tough Sh&t to the people working the project. It ain't their rock, it ain't their Real property, and once they leave draws, they are no longer personal property, they are booty.
F Spurt Climbers....
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