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maldaly
May 7, 2003, 2:33 PM
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Regrettable Facts
By
Jonathan Thesenga,
Former Editor,
Climbing Magazine
Hindsight is indeed a deeply painful lesson. I speak from experience because in the past month I’ve appeared before a federal magistrate, pled guilty to a misdemeanor, lost my dream job, and seen my reputation shattered by misinformed fellow journalists and climbers.
I want to clarify the facts concerning an incident in which I was involved this past New Years Eve. On December 31, 2002, while camping with friends in Joshua Tree National Park, I lit afire some white gas on a granite rock during a New Year’s Eve celebration. Park Rangers immediately ticketed me for “disposing of smoldering or lit material in a manner to create a public safety hazard.”
I am very sorry for my actions on New Years Eve. Never did I intend to harm the Park or think this juvenile prank would throw my life into such turmoil. In the end, my foolish prank cost me my wonderful position as Editor of Climbing Magazine. The entire episode has had a negative impact on my former co-workers at Climbing Magazine and climber/ranger relations at Joshua Tree National Park. There is no excuse for what I did, and, as I have said from the beginning, accept full responsibility for my actions and the resulting ramifications.
However, I feel it is important to set the record straight. Apparently because I was editor of an outdoor magazine, the National Park Service has chosen to make me their example of climber misbehavior in national parks. This has resulted in inaccuracies, and exaggerations on the Internet and newspapers about the incident.
Most important is the fact that I most certainly expressed remorse and regret during my court appearance on April 4, 2003. The Park Service has issued a press release on the court action suggesting something different. In court, I was ashamed and embarrassed, not arrogant or cavalier. My impulsive, drunken actions on New Years Eve showed extreme poor judgment, as I told the magistrate judge. I related to the judge how much I loved the park, how I had been climbing there for over 10 years, and would never purposely cause harm to it. I also told the court that what I had done was something I would regret for the rest of my life, and that I would accept whatever punishment the court deemed fair.
The Park Service claims I told the rangers that I wanted to start more fires or that I would perform the same stunt next year. After receiving my citation, I did return to the campsite campfire with other climbers. There were plenty of facetious remarks, fueled by alcohol, by nearly a dozen of us concerning what had happened earlier in the evening. I never proclaimed to any rangers that I would repeat my actions. I did not, nor have I ever, plotted or schemed to light fires in Joshua Tree National Park.
Using the National Park Service's misinformation as a source, Aspen’s daily newspaper proclaimed in a front-page story and headline that I’d been convicted of “felony arson” and vandalism. That simply isn’t true, but I am now viewed by acquaintances and within the climbing community as a convicted felon vandal and arsonist.
The fact is that I was charged with, and pled guilty to, the misdemeanor offense of “disposing of smoldering or lit material in a manner to create a public safety hazard” -- not arson or vandalism as the Park Service press release states. The arson allegation belongs with more serious firesetters -- torching buildings, and trying to collect insurance money.
I did not attempt to flee or run away from the rangers. After lighting the gas (which was on a 10-foot tall block, high above the campground and away from endangering anyone or any vegetation), I went down the rock slab and was immediately apprehended by two rangers. There was no pursuit, nor was I handcuffed or taken to jail.
My actions on New Years Eve have taken me from a job that I truly loved. That’s my fault, and my responsibility. I do not seek forgiveness, but only ask that the truth, not exaggerations and falsehoods, be known. Eventually I hope to rebuild my reputation and my standing in the climbing community. Until then, my greatest regrets are any harm I may have caused to the National Park for my error in judgment, and the public perception that I do not love and respect the outdoors in which I have made, and hope to continue, my career.
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bdawg
May 7, 2003, 3:57 PM
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hmmm, no comments about the whole bolt chopping incident eh? I bet your really remorseful for that too.
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ramylson
May 7, 2003, 4:24 PM
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Sounds like a slander case to me.. if you would ever want to purse it.
Either way.. hope everything works out for you.
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bighigaz
May 7, 2003, 4:26 PM
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Jonathan, we all make mistakes. I'm glad you were so forthright and honest about it. Good luck, and never stop climbing!
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bumblie
May 7, 2003, 4:55 PM
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Thanks for the explanation and sincere apology Jonathan.
Good luck.
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dead_milkman
May 7, 2003, 4:59 PM
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In reply to: hmmm, no comments about the whole bolt chopping incident eh? I bet your really remorseful for that too.
Holy Jeezus... While JT did an incredibly dumb thing in lighting up a block in J-Tree, does he really deserve to lose his job, or be the subject of such slander? Respectfully, I submit that he does not. As for the "bolt chopping incident" I've heard loads of spray, sometimes quite venomous, often apparently untrue, from both sides of this camp. Until now anyway, I chose not to comment because I had not climbed the route either before or after the 'unpleasantness' and didn't want to help perpetuate what appears, at best, to be vague rumor and innuendo. Have you climbed the route bdawg? If not, and with all due respect, your comments have no real credibility, and perhaps you should consider keeping them to yourself - especially since they, strawmen that they are, have no real bearing on this topic.
DM
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deafclimber
May 7, 2003, 5:06 PM
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Jonathan Thesenga,
that is cool... no one is perfect.
good luck, and keep climbing!
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boretribe
May 7, 2003, 5:09 PM
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In reply to: hmmm, no comments about the whole bolt chopping incident eh? I bet your really remorseful for that too.
actually he did comment on the bolt chopping incident here back in September. His user name is mudjunkie.
~Geoff
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crag
May 7, 2003, 5:32 PM
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Actions always speak louder than words.
As a community, loosely fit as we are, it is not are job to pass judgment on Jonathan unless we accept the same type of review on our own self’s; to never forget yes but possibly to forgive. The passion that rages with in us may lose its control or guidance it should be us that help redirect those who are lost. We would not expect anything less for ourselves if found in the same position.
“In accumulating property for ourselves or our posterity, in founding a family or a state, or acquiring fame even, we are mortal; but in dealing with truth we are immortal, and need fear no change nor accident.” HDT
Peace
Crag
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brianinslc
May 7, 2003, 6:22 PM
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Thank you.
There's always two sides. 'Preciate hearin' yours from the horse's mouth.
You seem like a nice feller, and passionate about climbing (ran into you in Zion a few weeks back, the "yardsale" comment, eh?).
Pre-emptive strike, next time perhaps, might help avoid the inevitable maelstrom of events that spun a bit beyond your control.
I'll have to admit I was pretty bummed about this whole thing, especially at you. But, hearin' your side really softens my hard feelings. Did I rush to judgement? Yep. I still really wanted to hear your side, but, fundamentally, your actions, in view of the greater climbing community, were pretty bad. Inexcusable? No.
Good luck.
Thanks again.
Brian in SLC
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tcollins
May 7, 2003, 6:45 PM
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Just cause it's bugging me, FYI the first post was put up by Malcolm Daly, not Jonathan Thesenga. Please stop addressing your posts and writing to someone who isn't there. OK, sorry about that, but I had to say something.
TD
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psych
May 7, 2003, 7:15 PM
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Classic "fall-guy" syndrome happening here...if Jonathan wasn't editor of a huge climbing magazine, and was just some regular schmoe like you or I, nothing would have come of this beyond paying a fine or somesuch.
I've always felt it's ridiculous that the actions of one facet of a corporation must reflect so much upon the others in the corporation. I mean, come on, we're all individuals and think for ourselves, sometimes we drink for ourselves too and things get silly.
No harm no foul, I'd say on this one, but...I just hope Climbing carries on the trend Jonathan started, I was really digging the new issues lately.
Mike...
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rockprodigy
May 7, 2003, 7:17 PM
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He got caught, so now he's sorry...why wasn't he sorry in January? What else has he done while "fueled by alcohol" that he got away with.
The underlying problem here is that JT thinks his job and his personal climbing activities are unrelated, that there is no higher standard for him. A few months ago we all tried to point this out to him...he didn't get. Our position as a user group in this country is too tenuous to have him representing us.
I wish him good luck in his future endeavors, ideally not such a public position.
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billcoe_
May 7, 2003, 7:33 PM
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Malcom, thanks for copying Johnatons post here.
Probably a good thing you spoke up and said something before you were accused and convinced of starting the Holocaust. I don't really want to debate your actions, I personally don't think it's that big of a deal, but to a petty beurocrat it probably sounds like the Alices Restaurant replay where-in Arlo Guthrie gets arrested for littering, and the Army refuses to admit him as a soldier, fearing he's not good enough to kill people for them because of the littering arrest.
JT: I hope I speak for all of us here on wishing you well on all of you future endeavors. I hope someday this will be but a minor blip on your radar screen to you. Look to the first Afro-American woman ever to be named Miss America, stripped of her crown for posing nude!! She refused to let that dictate whom she is/was or control her future. She is a kick ass world famous and rich as hell singer now known to everybody as the hit singer Vanessa Williams. The picture not even on her radar screen, she's too busy doing fantastic songs and raking in the money.
Anyway, hope we see the same kind of thing from you:
So put your clothes back on, Climb-on and forget it.
Regards;
Bill
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daceilo
May 7, 2003, 7:59 PM
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I'm very big on taking responsibility for your actions and Jonathan, I must say that, from what you wrote, you seem to have done that.
Although I don't applaud your actions (Nor do I see it as an offense requiring you to be dismissed from your job) I applaud what you have just done.
Laurence
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dysappear
May 7, 2003, 8:01 PM
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A few thoughts:
1. He SHOULD be held to a higher standard as Climbing's editor. In much the same way that judges, cops, etc. are held to them. His actions are a reflection of Climbing's values & principles, whether he likes it or not. Along with the privilege of being Climbing's editor comes the responsibility to act accordingly. It was hypocritical for him to think otherwise.
2. With regard to the bolt chopping - why not reach a concensus with other locals in the community before acting? Why the need for such a "knee-jerk" reaction? It sounds from his post like the bolts were wholly unnecessary, but I still have to question the methodology. I would have to hope that others in that area would have agreed & maybe even tried to mediate with the 1st ascentionists. And his comment in that thread about not being the "bolting police" contradicts his actions.
3. "Oops, I'm sorry" doesn't cut it. Climbers, along with the associations & groups we have formed are fighting tooth & nail to secure &/or maintain access to climbing areas all over this country & abroad. His position as editor of Climbing should have made him even more aware of this, not less. It's unfortunate that he has had to suffer for his misdeed to this extent, but it's necessary in order to show the powers-that-be that we can control ourselves as a user group. This essentially boils down to an "act now, think later" philosophy. It's ironic in the sense that the 1st ascentionists also seemed to use this method, but that doesn't make it acceptable for Jonathan to.
4. How convenient for him to post his own thoughts & feelings on these issues, while refusing to acknowledge or respond to others'. That hints at how fragile his arguments are.
5. Jonathan is NOT the victim here; we all are. And all his carefully crafted words of reason & justification will never be able to repair the damage caused by his unreasonable & unjustifiable actions.
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mistertrigg
May 7, 2003, 8:11 PM
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wow... JT, it sounds like you've been catching a lot of flack due to this incident and the exaggerations made public by the park service and newspapers.... this clearly seems to be a case of slander and personally, I think you should pursue this matter and stand up for yourself... ruining your reputation for false statements or unconfirmed statements is really adolescent... granted you made a mistake, but you were also victimized by the incident...
just my two cents...
--Trigg
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socalclimber
May 8, 2003, 2:20 PM
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I agree with dysappear. He does indeed represent the climbing community and he should be held to higher standard. I also find it fairly disturbing that he refuses to discuss/debate any of this in an open forum.
BTW, I talked with one of the Rangers about this, and his comment was: "I'm not going to blame an entire community for one persons actions." Although, I can guarantee that there are others in the Park Service that don't share this open minded approach. Also, people need to wake up and start realizing that the Rangers are not the ones who make the policy decisions. They just enforce the rules.
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drkodos
May 8, 2003, 2:53 PM
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Agreement with dysappear.
Absolutley he must be held to higher standards.
Apologies don't cut it afterwards when behavior is purposeful. Sorrow needs to be saved and respected when people make mistakes. Thesenga's behavior was not a "mistake". It was planned and purposeful. A mistake is picking the wrong color socks to wear. Flagrantly lighting fires and then running from the authorities is aknowledgement of wrong doing.
Alcohol is no excuse. Drinking raises the severity of the behavior in question.
Good Luck Mr Thesenga ......Wendy's is looking for Assistant Managers.....
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micronut
May 8, 2003, 2:58 PM
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Boy, alcohol is so fun.
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maypop
May 8, 2003, 3:15 PM
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Apologies don't cut it? An apology is simply an expresssion of regret. Thesenga isn't claiming he was in the right, or that he should be handed his job back, or that what he did was no big deal -- his statement seemed apporopriately contrite to me.
I can't see glib one-liners, like "Wendy's is hiring," as anything but mean-spirited.
The Vulgarians used to piss -- literally -- on the Appies heads. Warren Harding drove drunk on a daily basis, until the police busted him one too many times. Even Royal Robbins probably camped around an illegal campfire a time or two (which had as much environmental impact as 10-second blaze of white gas).
I guess climbers today have to become more socially integrated. Maybe we should develop a ranger-compliant outfit to wear to the cliffs. Those without an approved brown shirt can keep out. I don't Batso would have worn his though.
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dingus
May 8, 2003, 3:32 PM
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In reply to: I guess climbers today have to become more socially integrated. Maybe we should develop a ranger-compliant outfit to wear to the cliffs. Those without an approved brown shirt can keep out. I don't Batso would have worn his though.
Batso wasn't a member of the Establishment. The editor of Climbing Magazine IS a member of the Establishment. Such people do not get to behave with the same abandon as the rest of us, be they editors, politicians or bank presidents. Sorry, but that is how the world turns. Not a higher standard, just a different one.
Brown shirts... the inevitable Nazi reference should render this thread officially moot, however,
Just take your brown shirt complaint to heart and remember it next time you see a group of drunken rednecks chucking beer bottles in the river at your favorite national park. YOU go over there and set them right, keep the brown shirts out of it. I'm sure Warren would approve, though I'm not sure he'd be much help in preventing the ass beating you'd likely earn.
Don't you dare call those brown shirts for any kind of help whatsoever.
DMT
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socalclimber
May 8, 2003, 3:41 PM
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Thank you sir Toast (AKA Dingus)! It's about time people start realizing that the Rangers are not all Nazi's. Be rest assured, one day when you're hanging off a rope mangled, and the Rangers and the SAR team show up, you'll be damn happy to see them.
Oh, but I forgot, they are Nazi's because they wrote you a ticket for breaking a law. Those bastards. Of course, you have absolutely no responsibilty for your actions. It's all there fault.
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bumblie
May 8, 2003, 3:50 PM
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In reply to: wow... exaggerations made public by the park service and newspapers.... this clearly seems to be a case of slander... ruining your reputation for false statements or unconfirmed statements... you were also victimized by the incident... --Trigg
Get a grip. This is pathetic.
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ptone
May 8, 2003, 3:50 PM
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Yeah, consequences can be a bitch...
But a burned hand tracks alot more slowly back to a pot handle.
Who's more a part of our world, the person who 'never' makes a mistake, or the one who does, but cops and deals, so we can all learn from the experience...
Thanks for speaking up jonathan, takes guts just to do it, job gone etc t'would be easy just to run and not deal.
Climb on!
(just leave the gas in the stove.. :shock: :lol: )
Be glad to be human!
Peace
-p
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maypop
May 8, 2003, 3:59 PM
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*Not a higher standard, just a different one.*
Plainly bogus.
The Establishment? That's a construct, just as cliche as Nazi references. (It's called hyperbole -- look it up.) And I'd like my climbing reading to be a little more than The Voice of the Establishment.
Look, what Thesenga did was wrong. No doubt it can only be defended so far (I did my best). But attacking an apology is an exercise in self-rightous, self-indulgent poor taste. It's an easy target, because it's predicated on admiting wrong. So let him say he's sorry and move on.
And, yes, most rangers are good people, and yes climbers shoud show them respect (fairly, a few do have Nazi-ish trendencies). But the public stoning of a climber for playing a goofy prank is pretty ironic considering the sport's counter-culture roots. And the stoning was carried out by climbers who love to wax sentimental about the golden age of freedom.
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w6jxm
May 8, 2003, 4:00 PM
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Regardless of how we may feel about these two incidents, we need to listen to Jonathan's side for a while. What is done is done. He lost his job as editor, is in bad light with the public and the park service, and will probably never have the respect of many of us again. Lighten up already. It is a dead horse. He explained his action about the bolt chopping and expressed his remorse about the fire incedent. What more do you guys want?
Granted, we all know that what he did was either misjudged, misinterpreted, or just bad judgement on his part. That much has been stated in numerous posts. Put yourself in his place. How would you have responed and how would that response have been conveyed to the press and the climbing community. I'm sure in that somewhere in the process there would be misunderstandings and exagerations. His actions, right or wrong, are in the past. The only thing left if reconciliation and repair. Either we can continue to hang him out to dry, or we can help him become part of the community we love and work on improving our relation with Parks and the public. It is only when we work together that we will succed together in promoting and accessing climbing for the future.
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dingus
May 8, 2003, 4:32 PM
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In reply to: Plainly bogus.
I hope your argument can rise to this level of dismissal.
In reply to: The Establishment? That's a construct, just as cliche as Nazi references. (It's called hyperbole -- look it up.)
That's IT??? You label my point 'bogus' and this is the best you can do? Like it or not, the editor of a climbing magazine is as mainstream climbing establishment as it gets. The manner and wording of his dismissal reflects that fact. The owners of the magazine clearly felt what Thesenga did reflected poorly upon his position at the company. They fired him, in case you weren't paying attention. And hyperbole? While you may have been completely insincere when comparing rangers to mass murderers, don't be so hasty in assigning the same insincerity to others.
In reply to: And I'd like my climbing reading to be a little more than The Voice of the Establishment.
Ah, more hyperbole! Good thing you read the forums then. Climbing magazines are the place where gear gets reviewed after the manufacturer signs the advertising agreement for that issue.
In reply to: Look, what Thesenga did was wrong. No doubt it can only be defended so far (I did my best).
Big of you, admitting that. (irony - look it up) Why you feel the need to defend I cannot know. Bet you wouldn't defend a bunch of nameless rednecks smashing beer bottles all over Intersection Rock eh?
In reply to: But attacking an apology is an exercise in self-rightous, self-indulgent poor taste. It's an easy target, because it's predicated on admiting wrong. So let him say he's sorry and move on.
I'm inclined to agree with you. However, I wasn't attacking his apology and had nothing at all to say until you compared rangers to Nazi's. I'd say it was you who went over the top. I was putting your hyperbole out with the trash where it belongs.
In reply to: And, yes, most rangers are good people, and yes climbers shoud show them respect (fairly, a few do have Nazi-ish trendencies).
Still more hyperbole eh? Or are you sincere this time? Cause the way you keep mentioning it, I'm guessing you're more than just a bit serious about it. So maybe the Nazi thing wasn't hyperbole after all?
Name one national park ranger that executed Jews in a gas chamber. Just one...
In reply to: But the public stoning of a climber for playing a goofy prank is pretty ironic considering the sport's counter-culture roots. And the stoning was carried out by climbers who love to wax sentimental about the golden age of freedom.
Maybe some of us freedom loving old climbers are even more passionate about our environment and don't like drunks hucking beer bottle in the river or starting fires in the middle of the night at J Tree. Ever think of that?
DMT
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crag
May 8, 2003, 4:43 PM
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I don't know JT nor have I climbed the route he chopped. I did not see him pour white gas on a rock and light it on fire. Furthermore I do not know JT to be a heavy drinker or someone who is reckless.
I only know of these occurrences by the reporting of others and the later admissions of JT.
But I do know one thing, chopping a route and pouring gas on a rock and lighting it on fire are not the actions usually deemed positive with in most circles.
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maypop
May 8, 2003, 5:37 PM
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Dingbat -- first, what's your problem with rednecks? What's with the weird little vignette (like a story -- look it up) about me getting beat up, and now all the beer bottle stuff? Are you saying I ain't too edumacted?
Regarding using the Nazis as a metaphor, I don't want to offend you anymore -- certainly the historic, actual Nazis are no laughing matter. But, from Saturday Night Live skits to Philip Roth novels, using the Nazi's (or brown shirt references) as a metaphor is pretty widespread.
Anyway, I'm not interested in going tit-for-tat about this forever. Thesenga goofed, and now that he's apologized everyone can take their final cheap shot at him and get back to discussing why it's a good idea to steal quickdraws.
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alpinelynx
May 8, 2003, 6:14 PM
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even Rob Lowe was able to get work after a while..
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chugach001
May 8, 2003, 8:18 PM
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You're a big man for stepping up and admitting your mistakes - good for you. Life rewards courage more than it punishes stupidity. Good luck in your bright future.
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hooker
May 8, 2003, 9:23 PM
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In reply to: What more do you guys want?
Ummm, actually LESS would be better than more....
What wasn't called for was an UNSOLICITED, politically-minded, hey-I'm-a-victim-too, apology after the fact, when all that was needed was proper behavior to start with.
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