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on_sight_man
Jun 19, 2003, 7:55 PM
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In reply to: But at least in terms of climbing partners, or going out and doing something else like that, the male should go out because he wants to do the activity with the person, not so he can get a date or get laid. There's nothing like developing something that you think is a friendship and then getting dropped because you're not sexually interested. More then anything else in that kind of situation you just feel betrayed.
What's wrong with wanting a date or wanting to get laid? It would be just as useful for the GUY to make it clear he's single and interested too. Except, the guy then gets labelled a masher cause he'd be saying "I think this could lead to something: which would be even mnore creepy I think.
In reply to: Fortunally I don't think that this happens too often, but I have found myself not mentioning my boyfriend until I'm out bouldering with a guy sometimes so that hopefully we talk a little and the next oppurtunity to go out he choses whether or not to go based on what he thinks of me, not if I'm single or not
THAT, I don't think is fair. If you think the guy is interested (or girl for that matter) but go out anyway I think it's a lie of omission that you have a boyfriend. Better to just let him off right from the start.
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mewalrus
Jun 21, 2003, 3:18 AM
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In reply to: the male should go out because he wants to do the activity with the person
Why does this have to be mutually exclusive to wanting to date someone? To me this is almost an essential reason I would want to date someone.
Why is it wrong to look for a climbing(or insert anything) partner and life partner at the same time?
In reply to: Fortunally I don't think that this happens too often, but I have found myself not mentioning my boyfriend until I'm out bouldering with a guy sometimes so that hopefully we talk a little and the next oppurtunity to go out he choses whether or not to go based on what he thinks of me, not if I'm single or not.
Thats really nice, you lead the guy on and probably make him like you in "that way" even more then pull the rug out. :P
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merlin
Jun 22, 2003, 9:21 AM
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ummm.... i dont know how to say what i want to... but ill give it a try.
I think that MtnGeo is right, climbing can bring about intense physical reactions...
and i have to say i have been attracted to one of my climbing partners before, but i think that its important to be clear on whats going to happen... i also swore to myself that i would never again date a non-clibmer, didnt last long tho...
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jumpingrock
Jun 23, 2003, 4:28 PM
Post #29 of 119
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Best thing that happened to me was when this chick told me right off the bat that she had a bf. It had nothing to do with climbing but still it kept any "impressions" from happening either side. That said I don't hang out with her much anymore but she doesn't climb and never became a great friend so its not a huge surprise.
Another case actually to do w/ climbing was when I met this girl @ a frat party who was a new climber. I took her under my wing knowing again pretty quickly that she had a bf. Things were going fine until she decided to start bring her bf (non-climbing) climbing with her. I don't like her bf very much (not a jealousy issue) and therefore I hardly climb with her anymore either.
Anyway thats just my story. Nothing important. No thougts. Well I guess I said that I like being informed of the girls intentions. Keeps me from being an idiot and losing a friend. (Sorry HELPS keep me from being and idiot, nothing in this world could keep me from being an idiot when it comes to ladies)
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iamthewallress
Jun 23, 2003, 8:16 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: he said, "Well, once I realized that you weren't interested in me as someone to date, I realized I had to move on. You climb hard enough to be my climbing girlfriend, but not hard enough to be a climbing partner." The part about climbing hard was stupid, either he's an asshole or its possible he was feeling hurt and rejected and just wanted to make you feel the same way. Not that its ok, but its understandable. I disagree. I think he was just being brutally (maybe a bit too brutally) honest. You said he hauled you up a wall. Have you ever done that for someone else? Did you particularly enjoy it? A climbing partner needs to carry their weight at whatever level is being climbed by the pair (or at least close).
I guess at the time I had been climbing with him quite a bit, and believed that he was enjoying being a mentor. When he agreed to do the wall with me, there was no mystery in his mind about my climbing level, so it was cruel to let it be known only after a couple of months of regular climbing together that the who parnter/mentor angle was a deception aimed at scoring a girlfriend.
I have climbed on walls with people (two men and a woman on separate occasions) who were doing it for the first time, and in two of the three cases I did all of the leading. These have been great experiences, and I have only expected that my parners try as hard as they are capable of trying. If we summit, great. If we don't, no biggy. I won't dump them as parnters or friends based on there performance on their first wall, and I wouldn't try to lure someoen up there just to see if the stress and closeness of it all nets me something that 'normal life' on the ground would not.
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enigma
Jun 24, 2003, 5:36 AM
Post #31 of 119
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: he said, "Well, once I realized that you weren't interested in me as someone to date, I realized I had to move on. You climb hard enough to be my climbing girlfriend, but not hard enough to be a climbing partner." The part about climbing hard was stupid, either he's an asshole or its possible he was feeling hurt and rejected and just wanted to make you feel the same way. Not that its ok, but its understandable. I disagree. I think he was just being brutally (maybe a bit too brutally) honest. You said he hauled you up a wall. Have you ever done that for someone else? Did you particularly enjoy it? A climbing partner needs to carry their weight at whatever level is being climbed by the pair (or at least close). I guess at the time I had been climbing with him quite a bit, and believed that he was enjoying being a mentor. When he agreed to do the wall with me, there was no mystery in his mind about my climbing level, so it was cruel to let it be known only after a couple of months of regular climbing together that the who parnter/mentor angle was a deception aimed at scoring a girlfriend. I have climbed on walls with people (two men and a woman on separate occasions) who were doing it for the first time, and in two of the three cases I did all of the leading. These have been great experiences, and I have only expected that my parners try as hard as they are capable of trying. If we summit, great. If we don't, no biggy. I won't dump them as parnters or friends based on there performance on their first wall, and I wouldn't try to lure someoen up there just to see if the stress and closeness of it all nets me something that 'normal life' on the ground would not.
And the problem is sometimes exacerbated in a sense, because sometimes a climber woman does fall for a man she climbs with and (then he does become someone she wants to date.)
Then the guy she dates reaps all the benefits, besides just being a climbing partner, including sex. :wink:
So the other men she climbs with may become resentful, because they are not the one.
:(
I believe this is what eventually sets up the possible tension between climbing partners of the opposite sex. :roll:
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missedyno
Jun 24, 2003, 1:59 PM
Post #32 of 119
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wow. i'm glad i don't have this to deal with anymore.
i remember being single and climbing.... honestly, if i hadn't have been single i probably would not have gotten dragged on so many climbing trips!
now i'm obviously taken and more than happy to chat about him. a lot.
i think the issue is honesty.
you don't have to direct it to the person
"hey potential climbing partner, you had better not want me!"
just maybe in conversation... talk about how you don't feel like dating bla bla bla.
and if you get hit on oh geez. well boo hoo. take it as a compliment. try to play it off pretty lightly.
again, i am so glad i don't have to put up with this anymore :)
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sauron
Jun 24, 2003, 2:56 PM
Post #33 of 119
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In reply to: Why should we have to annouce ourselves like that though?? Why should we have to put these cards on the table? I'm quite certain that no woman is ever expecting a new male partner to say that to them.
I read this, and was wondering.. What's wrong with some good old upfront honesty?
Someone said it in this thread - the best thing that happened to him, was when she said up front that she wanted to climb, and that was it (paraphrased) - at the risk of stereotyping too much - guys are often accused of not being upfront enough - but on the other hand, it seems girls are rarely upfront as well.
I myself, have absolutely no problem with being bluntly honest up front - and I'll admit, I wouldn't mind meeting a climber girl that there might be something more than just climbing pal's with..
Then again, on the other hand, I am perfectly content just being friends, be it climbing related, or not. (The subtle difference being between "It would be nice..." - and "I'm happy with..")
- d.
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orangesand
Jun 25, 2003, 5:52 PM
Post #34 of 119
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I have the greatest idea!
We as climbers have simple commands for our climbing relationships... "off belay", "climbing", "falling"... "oh s___t!". Why is it that we cant use our words (or commands) to tell a climbing partner what it is that we are thinking and feeling. :D
I guess it all boils down to communication.
I have found it nice to find a bf who has shown interest in climbing. He takes me skiing and I take him climbing. And at the end of the day I don't have to worry about what he is thinking about me... because I already know.
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katydid
Jun 26, 2003, 3:02 PM
Post #35 of 119
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Just to stir the pot a little ... I find it interesting that a lot of posters seem to think it's the woman's obligation to let a partner of the opposite sex know that she's not interested in him.
Why should the initial assumption be that she IS interested? Is this fair?
k.
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sroehlk
Jun 26, 2003, 3:51 PM
Post #36 of 119
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In reply to: Just to stir the pot a little ... I find it interesting that a lot of posters seem to think it's the woman's obligation to let a partner of the opposite sex know that she's not interested in him. Why should the initial assumption be that she IS interested? Is this fair? k.
Good point!
Either way, if you're interested in someone let them know! What's the worse thing that could happen? They tell you they just want to be friends and move on OR they tell you they feel the same way.
It's much worse being strung along in limbo land. Trust me! Although I never seem to take my own advice. :? I'm always afraid I'll get the "you're a great friend, but..." bit.
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apolobamba
Jun 27, 2003, 3:42 AM
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Katydid,
Why should the initial assumption be that she IS interested?
Ego.
Why shouldn't she be interested in me? HAHAHHa
The same ego that says I can climb that, allows us to have a rare old time, or makes us think we can fight a 6'5" bastard at 245 lbs. Some of us our just wired that way.
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enigma
Jun 27, 2003, 5:33 AM
Post #38 of 119
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In reply to: Katydid, Why should the initial assumption be that she IS interested? Ego. Why shouldn't she be interested in me? HAHAHHa The same ego that says I can climb that, allows us to have a rare old time, or makes us think we can fight a 6'5" bastard at 245 lbs. Some of us our just wired that way.
You're right, but here's an example of a recent encounter. I climb with someone nice I meet over Easter, a guy. Goes well , a month later he asks me away for the weekend,to climb.
Doesn't go well,he respects my indifference but still acts like he wants to date me. So I say nothing, I want to,but not sure how to approach it. Meanwhile I would like to give another chance at climbing together,and truthfully he seems like he would be a good friend. :P
So we speak again,I'm suggesting day climbs not too involved , close by, no camping,but he's always stepping it up to full weekends and camping. Additionally he paid for most of last trip, all the gas ,most of the expenses as well,including dinners out and a motel where we stayed in separate beds. :roll:
:? Additionally his climbing of late isn't great from a sore back,but he keeps insisting he's fine to climb. What do I do??? oh, btw he is very decent,but not that passionate feeling for me. I hate to hurt him, so do you think we can just be friends?? I really am not into talking and he hasn't asked anything exactly either. :roll:
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jefffski
Jun 27, 2003, 6:33 AM
Post #39 of 119
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i know it sounds old fashioned but letting him pay sends the wrong message. also seems like you are now sending him the right message by staying close to home.
if he suggests a weekend away could you try saying that the weekend thing is kind of confusing and you want to keep things on a purely platonic level? guys do understand direct messages. signals can confuse us.
have fun--of the climbing type!
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apolobamba
Jun 27, 2003, 7:17 AM
Post #40 of 119
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Shame on you,
You are playing him... and you know it. You might not be lil' kim, but there is a connotation of guilt in your message.
You are taking his the money and you know what that he wants a relationship. Meanwhile, you are taking all the perks you can get along the way.
You should be up front now, because you are going to hurt him regardless. Non-reciprocated love always hurts - that is why there so many Freddie King songs. It is going to hurt a lot more when he sees you checking out the abs on some other climber.
You want the friendship without an amorous relationship. There are no guarantees. More than likely once you tell him that you want to be friends, he will not pay for your hotel room or carry your rope. What is in it for him? He does not pay for his guy friends. He might not even talk to you again. All possibilities can occur when you throw ego and love into the mix.
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enigma
Jun 27, 2003, 7:28 AM
Post #41 of 119
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In reply to: Shame on you, You are playing him... and you know it. You might not be lil' kim, but there is a connotation of guilt in your message. You are taking his the money and you know what that he wants a relationship. Meanwhile, you are taking all the perks you can get along the way. You should be up front now, because you are going to hurt him regardless. Non-reciprocated love always hurts - that is why there so many Freddie King songs. It is going to hurt a lot more when he sees you checking out the abs on some other climber. You want the friendship without an amorous relationship. There are no guarantees. More than likely once you tell him that you want to be friends, he will not pay for your hotel room or carry your rope. What is in it for him? He does not pay for his guy friends. He might not even talk to you again. All possibilities can occur when you throw ego and love into the mix.
He hasn't said that he wanted anything with me, and never initated anything physical.
I told him I didn't want him to pay, and I did pay for some dinners, but I couldn't afford that type of an expensive weekend.He did say it was his treat,and that he was making enough money.
Ok, now he is suppose to call friday about this weekend, what do I say??? It's so uncomfortable for me. last time I just told him I had a stomach ache, and somehow I got one. :roll:
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apolobamba
Jun 27, 2003, 8:04 AM
Post #42 of 119
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....I couldn't afford that type of an expensive weekend
Then you don't go.
You are a grown woman. Tell him straight out.
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sroehlk
Jun 27, 2003, 2:51 PM
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In reply to: Ok, now he is suppose to call friday about this weekend, what do I say??? It's so uncomfortable for me. last time I just told him I had a stomach ache, and somehow I got one. :roll:
"Something suddenly came up."
Just tell him this weekend won't work for you. You don't need to give him some elaborate excuse. Just tell him this weekend won't work for you. And why is he calling today about this weekend? Isn't that a little late?
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missedyno
Jun 27, 2003, 4:04 PM
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elaborate excuse? what happened to honesty?
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maculated
Jun 27, 2003, 5:46 PM
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Yeah, I think she led the guy on, too. I can't believe people stay in hotels when on climbing weekends. That is totally foreign to me!
I've had a few situations where I got the 'I like you vibe' from climbing partners, and I've just never been desperate enough to keep climbing with them if I wasn't interested. Just let it fade away. No confrontations needed.
Conversely, my favorite (or not so much) story about this is I was in Bishop vacationing with two climbing partners I was also social friends with and was out of money. They paid for my dinner and a movie. I went, "Dinner and a movie! You guys are taking me out on a date!" Joke, right?
Well, the boys freak out and are like, "Uh, don't take this seriously it is NOT a date." Ouch. Just a joke, man.
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bakedjake
Jun 27, 2003, 8:40 PM
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*jake sneaks into the ladies room and takes a peek* ok!!!! it's so boring in community i had to browse the other forums.
i can't take credit for this quote
"you never f--k your climbing partner. if it doesn't work out someone leaves and it's one less person to climb with"
*jake sneaks back to community... he just doesn't feel right being in the ladies room*
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mewalrus
Jul 2, 2003, 2:59 AM
Post #47 of 119
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In reply to: Just to stir the pot a little ... I find it interesting that a lot of posters seem to think it's the woman's obligation to let a partner of the opposite sex know that she's not interested in him. Why should the initial assumption be that she IS interested? Is this fair? k.
There is no assumption that she is interested. In our society its seems that in general it is the guys responsibility to make the first "move" or whatever that means. I don't know cause I have never made the first move, which is probably why I don't hardly ever date. I've always waited for the girl to make the first move, its happened a few times, not many tho. (oops thats off topic)
Given this first assumption is true, then I would say its the womens responsibility to make it clear when she isn't interested. This is very simple, the most you have to do is just ignore the guy. Or you could tell him straight up. I don't think thats too much to ask really.
Actually sex doesn't matter, it is the responsibility of the person being pursued to make it clear they aren't interested. Male or Female. To take advantage of someones affection is wrong. If you desire to stay "friends" then you must bite the bullet and tell them straight up. If thats to uncomfortable then just avoid them and write that possible friendship as gone for the time being.
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climbinggirl33
Jul 2, 2003, 5:12 AM
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I am smack in the middle of this reality right now as a recent transplant to Seattle from the East Coast (Boston). The hardest part of relocating was leaving my climbing group, which was a mixed gang of men and women. For the most part the core group was me and "the guys" - and yeah, I was one of the guys and it was awesome. Climbing was fun, and about pushing yourself, and just hanging out . . . we had a common passion and that's what made it all so awesome. Then again, I wasn't in a place where I wanted to "date" since I was looking to move.
Now I am in Seattle, single . . . and trying to meet climbers. It's definitely been easier to meet male climbers and I find myself in that negotiation between just climbing and climbing "plus" . . . that and missing having some women friends to climb with too. There's a weird vibe when a guy you climb with realized you "just" want to climb . . . but hey, I am sure there's a flip side too.
What can you do? Just keep climbing and having fun, and when you least expect it strange things can happen!!!
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allan_thomson
Jul 15, 2003, 11:41 PM
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Its better just to let someone know if your interested or not, no matter what your gender is. I absolutely hate it when a girl doesn't give an answer, but don't care if she says no.
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maculated
Jul 15, 2003, 11:45 PM
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People have women friends to climb with? That exists? :)
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