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Jul 10, 2003, 4:03 PM
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[quote:fce671ce94="dead_milkman"]My skis, boots, and Diamirs weigh significantly less than their skis, T1s, and bindings... and I don't have to deal with a "race" spring shovelling the tips into the snow when I'm going up. Tele's cool, don't get me wrong, but if you want functional... then tele's just not it, nor will it ever be. More work, heavier, less safe, can't use crampons properly, slower... but cool. Your pick, I suppose...[/quote:fce671ce94]
*in chevy chase character* milkman, you ignorant slut. :lol:
i've been skiing the scarpa t-race boot in the backcountry (because i enjoy a burly boot), along with rainey superloop bindings on wide boards, and i've never had a problem with weight. i'm kind of a big guy, so that might have something to do with it, but it's pretty easy to adapt.
as far as my tips shovelling, i always wear my boots loosely on the climb. this allows more forward travel for my shins and thereby eliminates any tendency for my tips to dive. again, i simply adapt.
can't use crampons? there are some pretty good models out for tele right now, but personally i still prefer to go without. if it gets TOO steep, i simply don my boot crampons -- which fit VERY well -- and motor on.
i think it comes down to what one is comfortable with.
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dingus
Jul 10, 2003, 4:27 PM
Post #27 of 44
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In reply to: Clyde's right, though. Tele gear has come such a long way in the past few years - look particularly at K2's sidecuts (for women, She's Piste). As with alpine skis, the deep parabolics make turns easier and faster. Consider also buying a soft alpine ski with a deep sidecut and mount tele bindings - same same, folks, and less expensive.
Advances smanches, ya mon, sure. The real advance is just a year or two away... fixed heels. Tele gear is STILL inferior from a downhill performance standpoint. If a person is taking up tele just to take up tele, GO FOR IT! It's fun and demanding and difficult to learn. But if you want to be in demanding backcountry conditions ASAP or have even a smattering of alpine aspirations, you will be far ahead to go AT, especially if you already have fixed heel experience.
Cheers,
DMT
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Jul 10, 2003, 4:33 PM
Post #28 of 44
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dingus -- DOOD! where do you live? come on up to the colorado highcountry and let's go turn for turn. it's not about the gear.
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dingus
Jul 10, 2003, 4:45 PM
Post #29 of 44
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In reply to: dingus -- DOOD! where do you live? come on up to the colorado highcountry and let's go turn for turn. it's not about the gear.
My man (?) I'm not dissing tele. I've done it for years. I am simply speaking the truth. Tele does not perform as well in down hill mode as fixed heel, it's more strenuous and takes longer to learn.
That said I'd be happy to link some turns! AT, tele, whatever, I agree, it's about the turns, not the gear.
But say, if it isn't about the gear... why the advances?
DMT
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Jul 10, 2003, 5:01 PM
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[quote:2fc542d504="dingus"]But say, if it isn't about the gear... why the advances?[/quote:2fc542d504]
because, admittedly, telemark was left behind in the dark ages for far too long while alpine advanced. with more and more alpine skiers making the crossover, it was only logical that tele technology would have to close the gap or risk losing their interest.
alpine is popular, no doubt. but a large component of that popularity is due to the fact alpine has a very steep learning curve -- with today's forgiving gear, a raw beginner can go from falling to passably making his way down blue runs with a few day's worth of professional lessons.
the same is not true for telemark. with tele you have to be on your a-game the whole time or ullr will smite thee mightily!
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dingus
Jul 10, 2003, 5:04 PM
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Right on Bro, I understand your point about the industry. But I agree with Clyde in that tele gear has gotten better; better boots, bindings, skis, the whole works. Not just cosmetic. Still doesn't match fixed heel performance though.
Oh, and ski industry numbers are and have been flat for a few years, or so I've read. They are fighting over a stagnant market share. And a lot of the new "skiers" don't ski at all.
DMT
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Jul 10, 2003, 5:06 PM
Post #32 of 44
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agreed, brother dingus.
now let's rail on those rat-b@astard snowboarders! :lol:
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dingus
Jul 10, 2003, 5:07 PM
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In reply to: alpine is popular, no doubt. but a large component of that popularity is due to the fact alpine has a very steep learning curve -- with today's forgiving gear, a raw beginner can go from falling to passably making his way down blue runs with a few day's worth of professional lessons. the same is not true for telemark. with tele you have to be on your a-game the whole time or ullr will smite thee mightily!
Right on, exactly what I have been saying... fixed heel is easier to learn and easier to do. When you're on top of a peak looking down 1000 feet of boiler plate and wind slab, and you had a choice, which would you rather tackle that terrain on?
Since I always bring my B game to the mountains I need every edge the gear can give me.
Cheers,
DMT
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Jul 10, 2003, 5:10 PM
Post #34 of 44
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agreed again.
so it comes down to dancin' with the one what brung ya'.
i'm a rock-solid pinhead ... but i SUCK at alpine!
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dingus
Jul 10, 2003, 5:18 PM
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Well we did it dude! We averted a potential flame war about ski gear on a rock climbing forum. Chalk one up for the good guys.
Cheers and happy turns
DMT
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maculated
Jul 10, 2003, 5:18 PM
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Yeah! Bag on the knuckle-draggers!! :)
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Jul 10, 2003, 5:19 PM
Post #37 of 44
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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hugepedro
Jul 10, 2003, 5:40 PM
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In reply to: now let's rail on those rat-b@astard snowboarders! :lol:
In reply to: Yeah! Bag on the knuckle-draggers!! :)
Exactly why I make most of my turns at Taos - wicked terrain and no punk-arse skateboarder wannabes.
* Pedro ducks from the room again *
:D
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icculus
Jul 10, 2003, 5:42 PM
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...and the reason people don't take up tele is because they are not good enough skiers to begin with. C'mon...if it were easy it would be called snowboarding. :P
I have alpine skied for over 30 years and recently converted (yes converted!) to tele last season and I will NEVER go back to a fixed heel. I agree, it is much easier to become proficient at tele skiing if you are a solid alpine skier. If you are an average alpine skier, AT is a great option...free heel for ascent, fixed heel for the descent, and the gear is as light as tele gear nowadays, so no worries strapping them to your pack.
As far as front-pointing in tele boots is concerned, that's what crampons are for! If I am climbing a steep, firm couloir where front-pointing is that tiring, I should have crampons anyway. When the snow is soft enough (timing is everything), front-pointing is tele boots is a breeze, and IMO tele boots are quite comfortable.
Enough tele bashing. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it ain't cool! It is.
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meataxe
Jul 10, 2003, 5:51 PM
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In reply to: Anbody tried those little short approach skis like the Rossignol Venture Free Trek or the Kong Grimper? They're like 100 cm skis that have kind of AT bindings (with heel lifters and skins for climbing) and fit crampon compatible boots. Maybe not the best ride down but if you're looking to ski to the climb they might be fun.
That's what I was talking about... I've heard of snowboarders using these as an alternative to snowshoes for their ascents. Anyone try this?
Presumably you can set it up to use the same boots for ski and board.
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Jul 10, 2003, 7:09 PM
Post #41 of 44
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haven't seen the short approach skis, but i DID see this cat working out with his split board last season. we two-plankers had NOTHING on this guy!
pretty impressive.
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madturtle
Jul 11, 2003, 5:50 PM
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In reply to: C'mon...if it were easy it would be called snowboarding.
http://www.yobeat.com/features/teleski.htm
I must be a #1 finally graduated from #4 :D .
I think DMT is a #3 :wink: . Hope we can get out and make some turns together this winter. Whatever gear you wanna slide on I won't give you any flack for it.
edited: to make link work
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dingus
Jul 11, 2003, 6:04 PM
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That hurt madturtle! A hypocrite pinner? Me?
The vast majority of people I ski with are boarders. I don't go to skis-only resorts (don't like the Yup crowd). In the BC it's all good if you can keep up.
In fact, I would go so far as to say I prefer to ski with boarders, by far. They have the best bob marley.
Nothing like a Safety Meeting in the Cave at Sugar Bowl, eh? EH?
Huh? You DO know what I'm talking about you crazy reptile, don't you?
Cheers!
DMT
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madturtle
Jul 11, 2003, 6:25 PM
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hypocrite...no, you definately speak your mind consistently just the jack of all trades, not an insult at all. I think with all the ball breaking you do around here you should have some pretty thick skin, so I'm sure nothing I could say would hurt too bad.
In the bc I agree boarders are a blast. In bounds those crazy guys never see the attraction to bumps so they're a drag. You'll have to introduce me to the cave crowd, I've only been behind sugarbowl once.
The only ski only resort I've been to is Mad river glen. Definately not a yup crowd. I think all the real yuppie places are the family resorts that wouldn't want to exclude the kids that board anyway.
-crazy reptile
edited-left out some text
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