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refugee
Sep 10, 2005, 2:34 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: [I'd like to see a rating, too...so it must be rated, and not climbed out of "purity" seriously, i feel sorry for you. your mental landscape has been limited by the climbing scene you were incubated in, which means you will miss out on 90% of what climbing has to offer. good luck, bro.
first of all, I'm not a "bro"
you feel sorry for me? You're the one arguing like a 16-year-old girl with an actual 18-year-old girl.
i'm just asking a simple question, and you're giving me a partial answer since you've been jerking off about dean potter on the sasquatch ever since that thing booted you thirty years ago when you actually still knew how to climb instead of sit on the internet and spray about your glory days.
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rastafari
Sep 10, 2005, 5:24 PM
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pwned :D :D :D
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bvb
Sep 10, 2005, 6:13 PM
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In reply to: first of all, I'm not a "bro" you feel sorry for me? You're the one arguing like a 16-year-old girl with an actual 18-year-old girl. i'm just asking a simple question, and you're giving me a partial answer since you've been jerking off about dean potter on the sasquatch ever since that thing booted you thirty years ago when you actually still knew how to climb instead of sit on the internet and spray about your glory days.
i'm an equal opportunity curmudgeon, babe. i'll flame with anybody, regardless of age or gender.
just because i'm aged don't mean i can't behave like teenager, and just because you're 18 doesn't get you off the hook for being an idiot.
i i think your question has been answered several times over; you simply don't realize it.
now if you'll excuse me, i'm off to the crags to have a few new glory days. 65 degrees and sunny outside.
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rainontin
Sep 10, 2005, 7:27 PM
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Curt: Slapshot is in Boulder, which hardly qualifies it as being in the USA...
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moonshine505
Sep 11, 2005, 2:38 PM
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refugee's flame has got to be the best I've read on this site in a while, and with the usual assholes hijacking yet another thread with mindless bullshit chest thumping, "I'm more of a man and more of a climber than you will ever be", there's been plenty of flames to compare it to.
Curt, BVB, Kalcario, go check out the thread about Joe Kinder's latest R+ I interview, your precious input is needed there, too.
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htotsu
Sep 11, 2005, 4:11 PM
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Refugee is clearly a girl who can take care of herself - I mean wow, "septuageneric man-love"? Classic. And that last one? Dayum.
But I wouldn't go so far as to call those guys "the usual a-holes", Moonshine (Curt and Bob are the guys Maculated has said are "the cutest thing since baby mice" so perhaps a filter of some kind is required to properly interpret their posts). In its own way, it's nice that Curt wants to defend Bob's honor, although the "he climbs harder than you ever will/can" is something Curt can't know for sure about a poster he doesn't know and hasn't seen climb. Still, it's cool that he respects Bob so much that he routinely makes that assumption.
As for the "rating" issue, the way I read it, she asked for something rated so that there is at least some hint of agreed-upon-standards so someone who has never seen the boulder can have some idea of what that route may entail difficulty-wise. We all know that the rating system is flawed and inherently subjective. But I don't think she was suggesting that a boulder cannot be difficult if it is unrated. Just more problematic, if you will :wink: , to enter into a poll of what is the most "difficult" route because being unrated can make its "difficulty" EVEN more difficult to agree upon. We've seen how tough it is to agree on RATED problems, so maybe she's just trying to take out a variable to make it a little easier.
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curt
Sep 11, 2005, 4:24 PM
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In reply to: ...i'm just asking a simple question, and you're giving me a partial answer since you've been jerking off about dean potter on the sasquatch ever since that thing booted you thirty years ago when you actually still knew how to climb instead of sit on the internet and spray about your glory days.
Well, that's the great thing about the internet. A total grommet like you can ask a question, get the correct answer from someone who has been climbing for over 30 years, and then still continue to argue about the topic. This certainly puts you in the running for our annual Gumby of the Year award. Congratulations on your achievement.
Curt
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bensnyder
Sep 11, 2005, 4:52 PM
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To all you people knocking on Sasquatch - know what it is before you speak...
20 ft of 45 degree overhanging fingercrack so thin that dean potter needed to go barefoot in order to get his toes in, and brutal to the point that the sequence involves a long series of middle finger locks. Any of you tell me that you can climb any crack with two big toes and 1 middle finger as your only points of contact (much less one that is severly overhanging), and I will tell you to eat your own shit...
As to whether it is the hardest boulder in the US - its probably right up there...
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fracture
Sep 11, 2005, 4:54 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: ...i'm just asking a simple question, and you're giving me a partial answer since you've been jerking off about dean potter on the sasquatch ever since that thing booted you thirty years ago when you actually still knew how to climb instead of sit on the internet and spray about your glory days. Well, that's the great thing about the internet. A total grommet like you can ask a question, get the correct answer from someone who has been climbing for over 30 years, and then still continue to argue about the topic.
The hardest boulder problem in the US is is not something that has so definite of a correct answer as you are pretending, Curt.
Simply not very many top climbers are focusing on crack climbing these days. There is no question that Potter is nowhere near as strong as people like Fred Nichole when it comes to actually seriously hard non-crack problems---so why are we supposed to assume that Potter somehow magically did what you want to claim is a V14 (5.14d) or above crack climb, even though he hasn't historically climbed near that hard?
IIRC, Potter said the hardest part was the pain, anyway. So perhaps no one is all that interested in repeating it because it fucking hurts, and there are more interesting, non-crack, and much harder boulder problems that people who could do it would rather spend their time on.
In reply to: This certainly puts you in the running for our annual Gumby of the Year award. Congratulations on your achievement.
Don't make me nominate you for the soon-to-be annual Old Trad Guy Out Of Touch With Reality Award (OTGOOTWRA). ;)
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camhead
Sep 11, 2005, 5:23 PM
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Just a sidenote-- I remember Potter saying in one of the mags when he sent Sasquatch something to the effect of "I'm definitely not on the cutting edge of bouldering, unless it is on a problem that I've been working for 10+ years."
Potter's bouldering ability aside, Sasquatch HAS bouted numerous V-hard boulderers (Jerry Moffat was mentioned above). Seems that if all today's hardmen can put up with the pain of Hueco flappers, SOMEONE will be able to repeat Sasquatch. There are plenty of strong boulderers out there with excellent crack skills (Matt Wilder and Tommy Caldwell comes to mind).
As far as ratings go, we DO know what Sasquatch is. B3. And it will remain that until it gets repeated.
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bensnyder
Sep 11, 2005, 5:27 PM
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I know I'm not curt, but I'm taking this one...
In reply to: Simply not very many top climbers are focusing on crack climbing these days. There is no question that Potter is nowhere near as strong as people like Fred Nichole when it comes to actually seriously hard non-crack problems---so why are we supposed to assume that Potter somehow magically did what you want to claim is a V14 (5.14d) or above crack climb, even though he hasn't historically climbed near that hard?
...because crack climbing requires a diffrent set of skills and stregnths. Chris sharma will probably never pull down on super hard crack climbs for the same reasons that dean potter will probably never pull down on super hard non-crack climbs:
*They are not interested to the same degree in the other types of climbing
*They posess the physical gifts that allow them to climb hard in a specific style
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bvb
Sep 11, 2005, 5:31 PM
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goddammit, i hijacked this thread fair and square, so could we keep the focus on me, please?
In reply to: you feel sorry for me? You're the one arguing like a 16-year-old girl with an actual 18-year-old girl.
In reply to: Curt can't know for sure about a poster he doesn't know and hasn't seen climb.
In reply to: Simply not very many top climbers are focusing on crack climbing these days
n00bs. can't live with 'em, can't flame without 'em.
http://www.boldering.com/...s/default/smiley.jpg
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bvb
Sep 11, 2005, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: Well, that's the great thing about the internet. A total grommet like you can ask a question, get the correct answer from someone who has been climbing for over 30 years, and then still continue to argue about the topic. This certainly puts you in the running for our annual Gumby of the Year award. Congratulations on your achievement.
http://baddaker-studios.net/macros/retard-prize.jpg
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htotsu
Sep 11, 2005, 6:10 PM
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In reply to: goddammit, i hijacked this thread fair and square, so could we keep the focus on me, please?
In reply to: In reply to: Curt can't know for sure about a poster he doesn't know and hasn't seen climb. , you just made my day. bwhaahahaahah. but seriously, i really would like to meet this curt guy. he's like, you know, a legend and stuff....hey, maybe i could take some pictures of him bouldering! (hint, hint)
Also, dammit, I'm still not a dude.
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golsen
Sep 11, 2005, 6:11 PM
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In reply to: IIRC, Potter said the hardest part was the pain, anyway. So perhaps no one is all that interested in repeating it because it f---ing hurts, and there are more interesting, non-crack, and much harder boulder problems that people who could do it would rather spend their time on.
http://www.samliquidation.com/crybaby_pic.jpg
i just hate it when it hurts...climbin is supposed to be fun and cool and shit...
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fracture
Sep 11, 2005, 6:58 PM
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In reply to: I know I'm not curt, but I'm taking this one... In reply to: Simply not very many top climbers are focusing on crack climbing these days. There is no question that Potter is nowhere near as strong as people like Fred Nichole when it comes to actually seriously hard non-crack problems---so why are we supposed to assume that Potter somehow magically did what you want to claim is a V14 (5.14d) or above crack climb, even though he hasn't historically climbed near that hard? ...because crack climbing requires a diffrent set of skills and stregnths. Chris sharma will probably never pull down on super hard crack climbs for the same reasons that dean potter will probably never pull down on super hard non-crack climbs: *They are not interested to the same degree in the other types of climbing *They posess the physical gifts that allow them to climb hard in a specific style
The fact that fewer top climbers are interested in crack climbing means a smaller talent pool focusing on that sub-genre. The result is that the most cutting edge crack climbs in the world are not nearly as hard as the most cutting edge overhang/face routes.
Measuring how "hard" things are purely based on repeats is nonsense. There are plenty of unrepeated easy climbs, and things won't be repeated if no one capable really cares enough to try (cf. the Holloway problems Curt is always on about).
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fracture
Sep 11, 2005, 7:03 PM
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In reply to: Seems that if all today's hardmen can put up with the pain of Hueco flappers, SOMEONE will be able to repeat Sasquatch. There are plenty of strong boulderers out there with excellent crack skills (Matt Wilder and Tommy Caldwell comes to mind).
I agree. Someone will eventually repeat it.
Maybe they'll be less chicken-shit and at least propose a grade, too. :)
In reply to: As far as ratings go, we DO know what Sasquatch is. B3. And it will remain that until it gets repeated.
Same grade as my buildering traverse, which is the true hardest problem in the US. Sasquatch'll be repeated long before my problem, so it must be easier, right?
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fracture
Sep 11, 2005, 7:08 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Simply not very many top climbers are focusing on crack climbing these days wtf???? and fracture, you're saying that curt is the one who's out of touch???? jebusss, peel those eyeballs open and take a look around, kid. the climbing world extends beyond what you read in climbing magazine.
The world standard now is 5.14b onsight, 5.15b/c redpoint.
Name a crack climb that comes anywhere close. (Ignoring Sasquatch, for purposes of discussion).
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bvb
Sep 11, 2005, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: Also, dammit, I'm still not a dude.
alright, alright, settle down then. i'll do ya.
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bvb
Sep 11, 2005, 7:19 PM
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In reply to: The world standard now is 5.14b onsight, 5.15b/c redpoint.Name a crack climb that comes anywhere close. (Ignoring Sasquatch, for purposes of discussion).
ok. the "houdini" pitch on the nose. or, the great roof pitch for that matter. has "the magic line" been repeated yet? city planning commission in escondidio, from the ground, without the 4' pile of cheater stones. i could go on, but what i really want to know is this: why are we ignoring sasquatch, for the purposes of discussion?
after all, the question was what is the hardest prob, and i threw this one out there as a contender. others have chimed in to say it's disqualified because....wait for it....it's a crack climb, and it does not have a grade!
well then...i certainly see the logic in you belief it should not be part of the debate. should we then not also ignore realization, for the purposes of discussion? after all, sharma didn't give it a grade....
and wasn't this topic supposed to be about bouldering?? when did the topic switch to sport climbs? i think that's in a different thread.
and wtf does any of this have to do with ME, goddammit?
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fracture
Sep 11, 2005, 8:12 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The world standard now is 5.14b onsight, 5.15b/c redpoint.Name a crack climb that comes anywhere close. (Ignoring Sasquatch, for purposes of discussion). ok. the "houdini" pitch on the nose. or, the great roof pitch for that matter.
Both of which were proposed 5.13b, have been repeated free (Scott Burke, who thought it was 14b), and are now considered to be in the 13d/14a range....
Plus, isn't the houdini pitch is only sorta a crack climb, and isn't the great roof basically a undercling lie-back for Lynn? (Though apparently it is weird opposition (i.e. non-crack) moves against the roof for everyone else).
Anyway, not even close.
In reply to: has "the magic line" been repeated yet?
Dunno. But, to paraphrase Steve McClure, compared to 15a, 14b is a "piece of piss".
(And magic line was done like a decade ago; if you're arguing top climbers are still focusing on cracks, then how about something current?)
So, also not close. Keep in mind, 14b is the world onsight level now (two people have done it).
In reply to: i could go on, but what i really want to know is this: why are we ignoring sasquatch, for the purposes of discussion?
Because we are discussing whether top climbers are focused on crack climbing. If they are, presumably you would have a lot more than just "Sasquatch" to say as evidence that the hardest crack climbs in the world are anywhere close to the hardest non-crack routes.
In reply to: well then...i certainly see the logic in you belief it should not be part of the debate. should we then not also ignore realization, for the purposes of discussion? after all, sharma didn't give it a grade....
It shouldn't be disqualified just because it doesn't have a grade (but it is totally lame not to propose a grade). Also the situation with Biographie (3 ascents, no disputes of the 9a+ grade) is completely different from Sasquatch.
The point is that it is an ungraded crack, and there's no good reason to believe the world standard in crack climbing has magically jumped up by nearly a number grade....
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valeberga
Sep 11, 2005, 9:43 PM
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In reply to: and wtf does any of this have to do with ME, goddammit?
Well clearly you must go send it. Send the burly boulder-crack!
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moonshine505
Sep 11, 2005, 10:09 PM
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Sasquatch doesn't have the same "character" that all the big walls being freed on years of pin scars do, which no doubt is one of the excuses folks use to glorify free climbing such manugfactured lines. So to me, sasquatch is just a pile of rock beaten with a hammer for years until someone climbed it. Hard? Sure, it's obviously hard. But it's as worthy of my respect as a gym climb. If this was a sport climb, or any other, non-crack boulder problem, this forum would have called bullshit long ago and denounced it as manufactured trash.
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bensnyder
Sep 11, 2005, 10:28 PM
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In reply to: The fact that fewer top climbers are interested in crack climbing means a smaller talent pool focusing on that sub-genre. The result is that the most cutting edge crack climbs in the world are not nearly as hard as the most cutting edge overhang/face routes.
I am about as far from a traddie as you can get, but this is bullshit!
*Crack (trad) climbing has been around a lot longer than sport, so it has been evolving for a much longer time
*The talent pool is smaller because fewer people are physically able to pull down on hard cracks
*Look at people like Beth Rodden and Lynn Hill, who are accomplished at both trad and sport style climbs - their hardest trad and sport climbs are both around 5.14a/b
*Lynn Hill's free route up the nose has thrown off the best sport climbers for decades
*Tommy caldwell, who has climbed some of the hardest, scariest trad lines in the world has climbed unconfirmed 5.15 sport
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fracture
Sep 11, 2005, 11:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The fact that fewer top climbers are interested in crack climbing means a smaller talent pool focusing on that sub-genre. The result is that the most cutting edge crack climbs in the world are not nearly as hard as the most cutting edge overhang/face routes. I am about as far from a traddie as you can get, but this is s---! *Crack (trad) climbing has been around a lot longer than sport, so it has been evolving for a much longer time *The talent pool is smaller because fewer people are physically able to pull down on hard cracks
The above sentences lead me to believe you completely misunderstood my post (which had absolutely nothing to do with trad vs. sport). Here is the same point, rephrased:
Fewer people crack climb in pure pursuit of difficulty than do the same on non-crack face/overhang routes. This obviously means fewer people are going to be "good" at it, and the top difficulty levels achieved will be accordingly lower.
Even for non-crack climbing the current pool of potential talent is relatively small. It's like fluxus talks about: climbing is a young sport with a small number of participants; accordingly, a few decades from now the things we think are seriously hard today are not going to be considered all that remarkable at all. (Except, perhaps, in their historical context).
Think historically about what was considered hard and cutting edge. Midnight Lightning was considered a difficult problem---nowadays it's trade. John Gill was years ahead of his time, and did a V8 in 1959---relative to the population at the time, that was incomprehensibly hard. These days, with many more climbers (which is what I mean by "a larger talent pool"), somewhat better training, much better technology, and people starting at younger ages, it's just average.
In reply to: *Look at people like Beth Rodden and Lynn Hill, who are accomplished at both trad and sport style climbs - their hardest trad and sport climbs are both around 5.14a/b
Who's talking about "trad"?
But if we're just talking about rock climbing (like I was), Beth's bolted crack The Optimist is 14b. But it's not a pure crack climb, however....
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