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chadnsc
May 13, 2004, 8:18 PM
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I was just wondering if anyone on this site has type I diabetes. I ask because I myself have been a type I diabetic for 16 years and have been climbing for two. If there are any diabetic climbers out there I was hoping to get a discussion going about how to better manage your blood sugar while on a multi pitch climb and those long days out at the crags.
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iclimblilrocks
May 14, 2004, 1:24 AM
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i have type 1. ive had it for over a year. i just make sure that i eat atleast 30 grams of carbs before i go up, because if i dont i will regret it
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sandbag
May 14, 2004, 1:36 AM
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Dont fret guys, my lil bro is a 32yo DM Type 1 for 28 years and climbs bikes etc. Just listen to your doctors and keep good control and youll have nothing to worry about.
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kinslerar
May 14, 2004, 4:06 AM
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My little brother is a type 1 diabetic and the two of us took a five week backpacking trip together. Dbyte gave some awesome advice. My brother doesn't have a pump (insurance wouldn't pay for it) so early on our trip he a had a few really low numbers, but he adjusted his insulin and got his blood glucose to level out. I always made sure he drank a ton of water and would have a snack at least every couple of hours. We also used GU packs a lot because they raised his blood sugar quickly everytime he felt like it was getting low. When we went out on longer trips I kept a bunch of these stashed away with me just in case something happened to our food supply. He has been a diabetic since he was 12 and is 17 now and really nows his body well and is great at managing his disease. We did some shorter trips so he could get use to managing his blood sugar while hiking all day long. One thing I would highly recommend is getting a glucagon pen and have your climbing partner carry this and know when and how to use it. On one of our training backpacking trips we got lost and ended hiking 5 miles more than we planned and ran out of food. I ended up having to run back to the trailhead to get food for my brother because his blood sugar got too low for him to hike any more. When I got back to him he was lying in his sleeping bag taking a nap and it scared the sh-- out of me. The Glucagon pen is an injectible treatment for hypoglycemic episodes in case you pass out.
I'm always happy to hear about diabetics who really manage their disease well, stay active and don't let it interfere with their life.
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chadnsc
May 14, 2004, 2:01 PM
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Thanks to everyone who's posted. The feedback is great! Currently when I climb I carry a second specially made caulk bag that has a glucagon pen, several packets of gue, and a syringe and bottle of insulin for emergency injections incase my pump malfunctions or breaks. I find that the gue (an energy gel used by bikers) works well. It has 25 grams of carb, is very lightweight, and is absorbed into my system fast. I also have my meter, more infusion sets, and plenty of food and water on the ground in my daypack. Of course when doing a multi pitch route I will have to carry the meter, infusion sets, and water with me up on the rock. Also I am sure to educate all of my climbing and backpacking partners about my condition and what to do if I have trouble.
One thing that I have noticed with myself is that various climbs affect my blood sugar in different ways. Naturally the longer sustained climbing lowers my blood sugar, which in turn dramatically affects my climbing. The odd thing that I sometimes experience is that when doing a climb that is pumpy, or at my maximum ability I will often get a dramatic spike in blood sugar (around 240). This spike in blood sugar drops relatively fast (15 min.) without an insulin bolus. In fact if I do give insulin for this high blood sugar I will bottom out and cause a very low reading (35-55). I think this is due to an adrenalin rush. Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
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moss1956
May 14, 2004, 2:18 PM
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I am not an insulin dependent diabetic, but I am not a typical type II diabetic.
My pancrease took some sort of hit, its down, but its not out... yet.
I don't have any advice about dosing insulin, however, I have experiences similar to what you describe.
When I am sport climbing, the first time I put on a pump I get a wicked low blood sugar. After a few minutes it corrects itself and I am pretty normal as long as I keep eating little snacks or bring some gatorade to sip on.
On multipitch climbs it gets dangerous late in the day. Its really important to bring along more sources of carbohydrate than you might imagine. Things like gatorade work better, but the fluids are heavy to haul. On the other hand if you eat a solid snack you still need the liquid to help you absorb it. They make those little glucose gel packets for marathoners. I have never tried one, but they might be a good compromise.
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killclimbz
May 14, 2004, 4:09 PM
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I've been a type I insulin dependent diabetic for over 12 years now. Being prepared is the key as you are ultimately responsible for yourself. 1st your partners should know you are diabetic.
2nd make sure you have carbs in some form with you and easily accessible. I usually have three-four energy bars in my pack or on my person if I am on a multi-pitch affair.
3rd, don't be afraid to let your partners know if you are experiencing a bit of a low blood sugar. Eat something, take a little time to recover, it happens to all of us.
I also prefer to use shots versus a pump. Mostly for the reason that I'm pretty sure I would rip a pump off of me manking around inside cracks, hiking through narrow slots, and all the other tight squeeze situations you can get into doing and the process of doing climbing. It is a personal choice and I guess it has to do with how much climbing and outdoor sports in general are a part of your life. Diabetes hasn't really slowed me down on any of my passions and you really shouldn't have a problem with it either. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
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jurjels
May 14, 2004, 5:13 PM
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Yeah, I'm diabetic too. (13 years, climbing for 2) I'm sold on the sports gels. They're small and easy to get down when your blood sugar is low (no chewing). As for the spikes and crashes around climbing, I've experienced those as well usaully more when I play hockey. From what I understand it is from your body dumping glucose reserves for what your body believes to be immediate use. The problem is that climbing isn't a consistant activity like running, so the glucose isn't used up right away and causes your blood sugar to spike. Your muscles still will use the glucose later (a tired muscle needs more energy to heal/rebuild). Taking insulin then will cause your blood sugar will plunge because your insulin sensitivity is so high. You might want to snack as well if you take insulin to correct the high blood sugar or perhaps hold off if you plan continue climbing.
On a side topic, has anyone used those meter-watches for testing blood sugar?
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chadnsc
May 14, 2004, 6:45 PM
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Thanks for the insight on the blood sugar fluctuations during climbing. It defiantly takes some time to adjust your diabetes to climbing versus other types of exercise. Your recommendation about snacking prior to climbing is a good idea. In fact a dietitian just recommended that I have some type of carbohydrate two hours before climbing. This helps by having glucose readily available to the muscles so the liver doesn’t have to dump its reserves into the blood.
On a side note I was wondering how often any of you test while climbing? I know that testing more than once an hour and adjusting your insulin dose based on the numbers can cause some major lows (for pump users at least). When I'm outdoors I like to test before I start each climb and or pitch. While training indoors I'll test before and after a climbing session.
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iclimblilrocks
May 15, 2004, 7:59 PM
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i find that lowering your insulin dose before any phisical activities is a great thing to do.
this is what i do before any kind of sport that requires alot or work
what i do is i lower my insulin by 1-2 units depending on my glucose level.
this is how i do it, i do a mixed shot of humilog and humilin h. my normal shot is 2h-8n
so i take (1) off my short acting and (1) off my long acting.
it is very simple and is a great thing to do. you should talk to your dr. first though!!
if there are any kids or any one who has any quistions about their diabetes pm me or aim me. cause im 13 almost 14 and have had diabetes for 1 1/2 years if not more.
ive thought about getting the pump but they have to be strapped on you and i would never be able to do that, i am way to phisical. I HAVE thought about getting a pen though.
is there anyone that uses the insulin pen?
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iclimblilrocks
May 17, 2004, 1:08 AM
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i think that all of us diabetic climbers should go and get one of those tubes of iceing, man those are a fast pic up/boost definatly a great thing to have
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chadnsc
May 17, 2004, 2:09 PM
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iclimblilrocks, and anyone wondering about the insulin pump and activity.
I don’t find the pump to be a nuisance to my active lifestyle; in fact it actually helps me to partake in more physical activities than I did when using injections. I have never had trouble with the pump getting caught or pulled out from any of the actives I do: climbing (outdoors, indoors, sport, top rope, multi pitch) backpacking, kayaking, cycling, snowshoeing, cross country skiing, running. The pump has allowed me to enjoy these activities more while managing my blood sugars much better than with injections.
Wearing the insulin pump dose take some getting used to simply because most people aren't used to having to wear an object constantly. I do have to think about where/how I am going to attach my pump to my body. When climbing I have a small nylon case that I clip to my harness with a carabineer. Generally I have the pump clipped to the back of my harness under the chalk bag. The pump acts just like another piece of gear hanging from my harness.
If anyone is curious about the insulin pump and has questions feel free to p.m. me.
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iclimblilrocks
May 17, 2004, 11:31 PM
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i would feel differant then everyone else, especially since im in high school. not only that i play paintball, and i am a very very intense paintballer, i slide into bunkers, and do super mans, and other stuff. and i know for a fact that it would get broken, not only cause all of the sliding and crawling, but also i would be afraid that it would be shot.
i am more interested in the insulin pen. because it is fast and easy.
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jurjels
May 18, 2004, 12:04 AM
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The pens rock. Seriously, they're easy to use and small enough to keep in a jacket pocket. I've been using one for about year and a half. Talk to your doctor, they might be able to give you a free one. I got my last meter that way as well as my pen.
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jratjeff
May 18, 2004, 12:15 AM
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I don't really have any advise that has not already been posted. I guess I am jumping in because it looks like I am the Granddaddy of all that posted. I have been type I for 27 years! I am 36 and have been climbing for fifteen years. I got on the pump 2 years ago and it has been a lifesaver. I find that my sugars drop the most while hiking into multipitch climbs. The constant exercise is much more exerting than the climbing itself. I must tell you that I am a bit of a fanatic about testing. I test at least once per hour during physical activity, and more if I don't feel good. All the advise out there is great. Stick with it and let me be hope for ya. If you keep your sugars in shape you can do what ever you want! Feel free to PM me if you would like.
Jeff
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iclimblilrocks
May 18, 2004, 1:00 AM
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the insulin pen?
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myhandshurt
May 18, 2004, 4:00 AM
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This is GREAT!! I'm a type 1 Diabetic too and I had NO idea there were so many climbers with diabetes! Woot! well ok maybe not woot but uhh...I'm glad I'm not alone!
Hey so the minimed is the shiznit? I'm looking at a company called Deltec right now as they are cheaper and their units are waterproof without paying more. Anyone used one of these yet?
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myhandshurt
May 18, 2004, 4:06 AM
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In reply to: The odd thing that I sometimes experience is that when doing a climb that is pumpy, or at my maximum ability I will often get a dramatic spike in blood sugar (around 240). This spike in blood sugar drops relatively fast (15 min.) without an insulin bolus. In fact if I do give insulin for this high blood sugar I will bottom out and cause a very low reading (35-55). I think this is due to an adrenalin rush. Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
Dude.
This is totally normal. It is the same reason for the "dawn" effect when you wake up in the morning with high sugars when in fact you had a reaction in the middle of the night. In the Dawn effect your body has a low sugar, goes into shock while you sleep and pumps adrenaline. The adrenaline jacks your sugar levels up in your blood leading to a high sugar in the morning (which is then usually mistaken for a high sugar and people take insulin causing, well another reaction).
The same adrenaline in the Dawn effect occurs in hard climbing so you will get a spike for sure. Just don't pump bolus into yourself for a while and check it in a bit to make sure you really are high instead of just pumped :)
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myhandshurt
May 18, 2004, 4:11 AM
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In reply to: The pens rock. Seriously, they're easy to use and small enough to keep in a jacket pocket. I've been using one for about year and a half. Talk to your doctor, they might be able to give you a free one. I got my last meter that way as well as my pen.
I use the pens. They do rock...but I am thinking about the pump as it brings me closer to what a pancreas does in normal non-diabetics.
Also the Deltec Cozmo has a new thing they are deveping which piggybacks on the pump and checks your blood sugar! ooh baby now THAT is cool.
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iclimblilrocks
May 18, 2004, 4:32 AM
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this thread rocks, you guys are like the first diabetics that ive talked to,
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chadnsc
May 18, 2004, 1:10 PM
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I understand the issues with the pump, it is not for everyone. I still wouldn't completely overlook eventually using the pump. Although, I still don't think it would be broken, even with paintball. I say this from experience. I aggressively played paintball for five years in the pro circuit (tournaments), all while wearing the pump. My position was the second, which basically means I run to keep up with our point man while he and I attempt to get as close to the center flag as possible and continue to push forward trying to pull the flag. Needless to say the pump took some serious beatings (and paintball shots) but it never broke. Even if it had been damaged the pump has a five year free replacement warranty. The pump is allot stronger than you think. Don't rule out using one yet, especially while you're still under your parents insurance!
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burp
May 18, 2004, 5:31 PM
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Howdy,
Climber for 18 years, Type 1 Diabetic for 10 years. Hemoglobin A1C averages around 6.2 (never above 7 and occassionally below 6).
Climbing as a diabetic has not been a problem for me. On multipitch routes I carry extra food/water, insulin, glucometer, and a glucagon kit. I always carry enough food in case of a forced bivy overnight.
Insulin demands for climbing all day has not been a problem. I still have a LITTLE (very little!!) bit of insulin production in my pancreas. My antibodies haven't kill it all off yet! So I take a oral glycemic pill (max dosage) that helps cover my basel rate during the day. I do take NPH at night and Humalog with meals.
Climbing for several hours, I can actually eat a normal breakfast just before climbing, NOT take a shot of Humalog, and climb all day. I sometimes need to eat a power bar or something too while climbing, so I don't get low. Around dinner time or later when activity ends and I eat a meal (if I don't my blood sugars will rise) and take a shot, I must cut my insulin requirements by a half to a third. Then at bedtime, I can cut my NPH significantly.
This works for me because I have a few pounds of fat I can lose and if I take much insulin with breakfast before a full day of climbing, I will definately need to eat plenty of food throughout the day (at least through first 4-5 hours anyway). That sucks when you have to carry it all with you.
Has anyone of you diabetics done a big wall? I'm looking forward to doing one this fall in the valley. I know I'll have to watch the amount of insulin I take or I'll be eating like a madman and not able to do as much climbing and on a big wall I don't want to be delayed by low blood sugars and have to carry too much food. The flip side is I don't want to be high and get dehydrated, particularly with the limited water supplies. I think I've got it all worked out and am ready to blast off!
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iclimblilrocks
May 18, 2004, 6:26 PM
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In reply to: I understand the issues with the pump, it is not for everyone. I still wouldn't completely overlook eventually using the pump. Although, I still don't think it would be broken, even with paintball. I say this from experience. I aggressively played paintball for five years in the pro circuit (tournaments), all while wearing the pump. My position was the second, which basically means I run to keep up with our point man while he and I attempt to get as close to the center flag as possible and continue to push forward trying to pull the flag. Needless to say the pump took some serious beatings (and paintball shots) but it never broke. Even if it had been damaged the pump has a five year free replacement warranty. The pump is allot stronger than you think. Don't rule out using one yet, especially while you're still under your parents insurance!
U PLAYED PRO?? THAT IS AWSOME!!!!! i think by 2nd i think that u were a mid player. what team did u play on?
im a front so there is even more aggresiveness here. lol
wouldnt that dam little cord get ripped out of you?
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chadnsc
May 18, 2004, 7:33 PM
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I used to play on team Blizzard. I haven't played for a few years so I've probably lost a bit of the lingo (and skills) but I think when I said I played second you call it mid, and my point man was a front. All our tournaments where center flag.
As far as the catheter (little cord) getting ripped out of me while playing ball, or anything for that matter it has never happened to me. Even when I was bouncer while in collage I never ran into any problems with the catheter getting ripped out.
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iclimblilrocks
May 18, 2004, 8:16 PM
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i might have to think about this pump after hs. it sounds pritty kool, but while in hs i think that i am gonna stick with the standard shots or get a pen
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myhandshurt
May 19, 2004, 7:04 AM
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In reply to: Dawn Phenomenon - I always thought that this issue was due to humans getting up in the AM & going right to work for so many centuries. This was before desk jobs of course. The idea was that the release of sugar from the body's reserves enabled people to do hard labor for a few hours before they would eat anything. Lots of modern-day farmers still do this, in that they get up ridiculously early & go right to work. Later in the morning they eat a huge breakfast, then work until nightfall. This natural process hasn't yet been unlearned by our bodies in spite of us not plowing a huge field or building a stone wall before we eat breakfast. Not everyone's body does this BTW. Is this not consistent with what you people have learned about this?
Hey dbyte, you are right and I am right but not quite right. http://www.diabetic-talk.org/dp.htm. The Dawn Phenominon is what you quoted above, I got it confused with the Somogyi Effect. The article doesn't talk about adrenaline much but my doctor mentioned adrenaline being a glucagon factor.
Look at that you learn something every day :)
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kunzie
May 19, 2004, 7:44 AM
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Yup, another one here, and I'm going for a regime change on friday night, trying out the Glargene that's just been released over here (though apparently it's been in Europe for ages).
I find climbing alright, but rather than lowering only 1 - 2 units, I have to almost lower it by a third any time I go climbing all day. I always carry a packet of glucose tablets in one of the pockets of my cargo pants. Add to that some snickers if I'm multipitching.
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rtc
May 23, 2004, 3:44 PM
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use a gri gri or some form of auto belay! i saw a diabetic lose cons. while belaying his daughter she held on ,we tired her off, then scolded the old :cry: guy!
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iclimblilrocks
May 24, 2004, 4:45 AM
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urg, i think that if u feel low then u shouldnt belay pr even touch the rock untill u get a boost
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bighigaz
May 24, 2004, 4:51 AM
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My wife is type one. We went climbing on our first date, before I knew anything about it. She controls the blood sugar issues, but as a partner, it is very important to understand them, and know how to take care of her if she gets too low or too high. She has educated me on what to do, and there have been a couple of times (not climbing) where I was the only person around and not being able to help her on my own would have been the difference between a little blood sugar problem, and a serious situation. Partners, make sure you know how to take care of your diabetic climber!!!!!!!! Also, being dehydrated seems to make things a lot worse, so I make sure she drinks plenty of water... and an auto locking belay device seems to be a pretty good idea.
James
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iclimblilrocks
May 26, 2004, 4:17 PM
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i definatly agree about showing the people that u climb with what to do if u go into insulin shock,
as far as the grigri some of us cant afford 50$ on a belay device, i think that they should just test their insulin levels before they get on the rock or belay, and or eat something, or drink a gadorade
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