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hardcoredana
May 28, 2002, 2:51 AM
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Quote: Maybe someone should start a commitee...The climbing wall inspectors berau...it could work
Not a bad idea . . . An organization like this already exists, it just doesn't have a lot of clout.
The Climbing Gym Association
Here's the scary part about the CGA. . . I'm not sure how, but the owners of the gym that I refered to in my original post are somehow involved in the management of this organization. I'm not clear on the relationship between the owners and the CGA, but maybe tyraidbp or pianomahnn could enlighten us?
Quote:Do you, or anyone else, have some advice for the rest of us?
Also, it's my understanding that the damage is primarily through hard falls. So does that mean the Auto-Belay routes are safer (since they do not sustain hard impacts)?
My advice would be to keep your eyes open. If you climb at the same gym, then you should pretty much know how often they change the ropes. You can also learn a lot by asking questions. Don't be afraid to ask a gym employee what their risk management procedures are regarding ropes and other important equipment. Of course, make sure you ask someone that you trust!
In regards to the auto-belay ropes, I would say that yes, they are safer than the other ropes. Why? Because those ropes are changed more often, because they don't sustain any impact, and because the gym inspects those ropes and the auto-belay equipment on a regular basis.
But look out for those top ropes!!! I know for a fact that most of those ropes haven't been changed in a while.
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kahuna3602
May 28, 2002, 3:13 AM
Post #27 of 45
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>
Not where I climb. They are climbers themselves and very good at it. THey take safety very seriously which irks some of the "Hot Shots" who come in from out of town. Maybe you need to find a better gym.
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gregarion
May 28, 2002, 3:43 AM
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Everyone on this is talking about falls on TR. Now to my experience a common fall on TR has little in common with a whipper. On TR in my opinion on a semi-dynamic rope your climber shouldn't drop more than perhaps two feet maybe a hair more. The forces involved compared to the strength of the rope are minimal. I'm not saying that you should have complete trust in your gym and not check your TR but that there shouldn't be as much worry as seems to be coming out. At the gym that i work at the TR's are checked atleast once a month. When we see sheath slippage which we catch pretty often as we tie up the ropes every night we cut the rope and re-burn the end. With these practices i could see people having a greater faith in thier gym, and it's ropes and equipment. As far as were gym lead ropes are concerned i'm only going to say that if i were leading on a rope that a gym supplied me i would thoroughly check it, and if i was TR'ing on a rope that others led on i would likely feel worried and once again check it.
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hardcoredana
May 28, 2002, 9:25 PM
Post #29 of 45
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Quote: Everyone on this is talking about falls on TR.
I neglected to mention that in the gym where this happened, climbers use the top ropes for the lead climbs. The climber simply pulls the top rope down and then leads with it. On the way down, the climber "cleans" the rope so that when he/she is finished climbing, the top rope is in place for the next climber.
And even if someone takes a top rope fall on the rope that I refered in my original post, would a rope that has a torn core catch them? Is the sheath strong enough to catch a top rope fall? Of course, I'm asking the question for purely intellectual reasons. I would never imply that a rope with a torn core should be climbed on, even on top rope!
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darkside
May 29, 2002, 4:33 AM
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A sheath alone should take body weight but just the thought of that makes me cringe.
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climber_dude
May 29, 2002, 7:01 AM
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i see your piont the ropes in our gyms are over 12 years old as to if they are unsafe i dont know
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pianomahnn
May 29, 2002, 9:16 PM
Post #32 of 45
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Quote:
i see your piont the ropes in our gyms are over 12 years old as to if they are unsafe i dont know
Oh.
My.
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ephemeral
May 30, 2002, 2:07 PM
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How many times has anyone ever heard of a rope failing in a gym? None is my guess.
The topropes in a gym are not stressed very much and most of the wear is from the bend in a gri gri or rubbing on the end of the bracket on top. I would check the knots and be more concerned with them.
I read the original post and am not sure if the core was just being pulled out of the worn sheath or if the core was broken and being pulled out? If the core was broken, it would have been obvious when you load the rope with your weight prior to climbing. Something I do every time.
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hardcoredana
May 30, 2002, 11:48 PM
Post #34 of 45
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The core was broken.
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jt512
May 31, 2002, 1:17 AM
Post #35 of 45
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I wonder how the core could have broken, but not the sheath. I've never heard of this happening before. Chemical damage?
-Jay
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pianomahnn
May 31, 2002, 3:22 AM
Post #36 of 45
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I helped to pull it also.
I actually discovered the problem.
I deserve money or something.
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gregarion
Jun 1, 2002, 5:17 AM
Post #37 of 45
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I'm confused as to what was wrong with this rope. Your saying that at one end the core was exposed. This i understand, but that also the core was broken in another point on the rope? Just pondering what could have caused this that wouldn't have been incredibly obvious to anyone. Since a single strand from the core of a rope can hold my body weight. Thinking of the forces involved to break a core is quite something, and if it had been cut it should have been obvious as the sheath should have been cut as well.
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gunkjunkie
Jun 1, 2002, 3:35 PM
Post #38 of 45
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I've seen this problem as well. How are your ropes set up? At one of the gyms I used to climb at the ropes were over relatively small maybe 3-4 inch in diameter piping. Their ropes used to get wear on the sheath frequently - in some cases through to the core. Perhaps due to rubbing occuring over a more concentrated area.
Deirdre
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christianbennet
Jun 2, 2002, 2:49 AM
Post #39 of 45
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um ya,
i was wondering if anyone ever heard of a rope breaking, not being cut on a sharp edge, but breaking? a buddy of mine, although i think he is nuts has a rope that is quite old, has many holes in the sheath where you can see the core, and he still takes thirty footers on it.
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tyraidbp
Jun 5, 2002, 1:58 PM
Post #40 of 45
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Ok, to the guy whos friend takes 30 footers on a rope with multiple holes in the sheath, you need to get that rope retired. Get some of your other friends together and buy him a new rope for his birthday or something. Hell it could be for Easter Cow Day for all I care. The core of a rope can break without the sheath breaking at any point. This could be caused by heat(friction), any kind of pinching in the system, or plain and simple to many falls in the same place. I was (un)fortunate enough to take a course on Risk Management from a certain CGA Gym and CGA instructor/inspector and what I learned from that was amazing. The CGA is a great idea and concept, but when its main goal is to make money, what is the point. You think of all the different "watch dogs" in different industries and you think it was formed by consumers in order to make sure there is some conformity in what everyone is doing. BUT ITS NOT!!!!! Its actually organized for reasons such as gaining profit from inspections of facitilities, saving money on insurance, forcing gym owners into doing things that they would normally not do to save or make money, and so forth. Now as far as the President/CEO of Nicros and VE being on the board of directors of the CGA. The thing that I constantly remind myself as I begin to enter the business world of the outdoor industry is, Nate used to be a standup guy sorta. He used to cruise through town(Chi-Town)and give out tons of free holds to people and say try these out. He used to spend countless hours working in the StPaul gym. Now, he drinks, he drinks, and oh yeah, he drinks. His goal is not to develop cool and interesting products anymore, its to make money. The CGA was formed as an organization to cut costs on insurance, and kind of watch over climbing gyms that seemed to be popping up everywhere. Good idea, bad people. The funny thing to me is when a gym gets certification. Now if you are a friend of the organization, meaning they need something from you, then your cert. process is pretty painless. BUT, if you are just an ordinary gym, your cert. process may not seem worth going through and as is the case for many gyms across the US and even the 51st state(Canada).
Back to these ropes. If your gym has ropes that look unsafe, then they are. Plain and simple, there are no two ways around it. If your gym has ropes where the sheath is torn and you can see a whole thred or even more, then that rope is unsafe. If you go to tie in and the rope is really soft where you are going to put your knot, its not good. If the rope is flat in spots or the sheath looks very SHINNY, then its no good. The core is braided in a specific way that makes it strong and shock absorbing, so if its flat do you think it will work the same???
Here is a short, funny story about Danas wonderful gym of bashing choice. When the gym first opened, or should I say partially opened, they were having a problem with the sheaths on the ropes getting really frayed and looking bad after about three climbs each. Well, as it would turn out, the belay bars that were welded to the steel frame of the wall, had these HUGE burs on them. The rope would then rub over these burs causing them to tear. Go back to that simple test of heat and friction breaking a rope, and guess what was happening? The ropes were getting all tore up. But they had no idea what was causing it, until someone got to the top and sliced their finger on one of the burs. Its all common sense, DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!
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caerbannog_rabbit
Jun 5, 2002, 4:13 PM
Post #41 of 45
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it doesnt matter if you signed a release form. theres this thing called NEGLIGENCE.
if they knew a rope was unsafe it would not be up there. YOUR safety is YOUR responsibility.
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davandron
Jun 5, 2002, 5:28 PM
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(Agreeing with Caegbannog)
Many people are unaware that release forms do not stand up in court when the institute's negligence lead to an injury. If anyone is in doubt, simply ask an attourney or even a medical professional such as a psychologist; despite waivers and release forms they are sued frequently.
All the same, I'd prefer to have a fully functional body, rather than a solid court case and be bound to a wheelchair. To that end, I remain thankful of Dana's warning and worried as to how we should protect ourselves when using a gym's or rented equipment.
-Andrew
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harry
Jun 11, 2002, 9:22 PM
Post #43 of 45
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you may have had a bad experience with that rope, and yeah s--- happens, but ive been climbing for at least 12................months, and i personally couldnt give a worthwhile opinion
well i can actually, if the manager can be arsed, then your alright, if he cant, then stop going to his wall and hell have to close down!
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arachnifem
Jul 3, 2002, 10:15 PM
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Wow, that's pretty scary. I guess I've lucked out b/c the gym where I climb (Rocknasium in Davis) is pretty small and really well maintained. They are always replacing old stuff for new and ropes seem to be the first things to go.
One might think that for liabilities sake gym owners/operators would be more likely to comply with safety standards. Is there any such regulation in force? Could this be a future movement for all indoor climbing enthusiasts to initiate & support?
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svilnit
Jul 7, 2002, 4:57 PM
Post #45 of 45
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The climbing gym in Columbia, Maryland (Earthtreks I & II) change their ropes every 2-4 weeks.. There is a lot of wear and tear on ropes in a gym and their theory is... "better to be safe than have a lawsuit"
Also, they are switching a lot of the TR routes to autobelay optional to save some wear on the ropes...
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