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1800lotions
Jan 16, 2005, 3:29 AM
Post #26 of 74
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After careful consideration and viewing all of your posts I have come to a conclusion. It is ok to serve beat downs and the kind of people who say that perma draws are fair game where sitting on there fat asses on a Saturday while I was out climbing so their opinion is dismissed. On the note about do I lock my home and car... I think your girl knows the answer to that...she has a key!
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tattooed_climber
Jan 16, 2005, 6:28 AM
Post #27 of 74
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Registered: Dec 13, 2003
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yes...its called karma.....if something comes between you and you're rack....you kill it!
what happens to the touron when he gets between momma bear and her cub?
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cragcrawler
Jan 16, 2005, 9:41 PM
Post #28 of 74
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In a perfect world people would leave what wasn't theirs out of consideration for the owner, or if taken, theywould leave something like a payment or trade. however this is not a perfect world and some parents just have not taught ethics or morality to thier childeran. And some people just trully believe they are in the right when another may believe they are in the wrong and there is nothing you can do to convince them otherwise. I do beleive that the college students should be told what they did might not have been the greatest idea, but Serving beat downs never really accomplish anything exept make the other person mader. As my dad has always said "kill em with kindness untill they draw the line, and once they cross that line, it's every man for him self"
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tradman
Jan 17, 2005, 10:39 AM
Post #29 of 74
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I love the idea that it's okay to take stuff that's not yours as long as it's not actually locked up.
Here's an alternative solution: go to the top of the route and throw large rocks down on them. While you've got their attention, your buddies will find all sorts of nice gear just lying around their feet unattended, which is fair booty under your rules.
I'd love to see any of you weiners try to walk off with my gear. I'd have a good laugh watching you pick up your teeth with broken fingers while my mates set fire to your car.
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jcshaggy
Jan 17, 2005, 1:17 PM
Post #30 of 74
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Is it o.k. to take gear that doesn't belong to you? No.
If my gear was taken and i found out who it was things would get interesting.
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gunkyjon
Jan 25, 2005, 5:14 PM
Post #31 of 74
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Registered: Oct 17, 2004
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If some collage kids steal my draws I'd ask for them back and If they did't give them back I'd beat the !@#$ out of them
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caughtinside
Jan 25, 2005, 5:23 PM
Post #32 of 74
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You know what's cool?
Stealing from other climbers. Because that's what you are doing if you're taking draws. You're stealing. Plain and simple. And why? Do you really have to have those draws?
That said, it's less surprising by the day to show up and see that some jerk has taken your draws. And that's sad.
Of course, there's always going to be n00bies who don't know that a whole route of draws is not abandoned, since they are blinded by the booty.
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jakedatc
Jan 25, 2005, 8:07 PM
Post #33 of 74
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That's alright tradster... people will just steal ur shit that you leave at the bottom of your multipitch 5.2's i mean it's littering the area.. quite an eyesore
please avoid rumney, there are not nearly enough easy routes for you to climb there. Although... there are a few X rated trad climbs i'd point out for you to give a whirl...
people that say they will steal fixed draws talk big but rarely have the balls to do so... especially at rumney.
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coloredchalker
Jan 25, 2005, 9:27 PM
Post #34 of 74
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I think this thread is pretty dumb for two reasons but can't with hold my 2 cents.
1: If you leave your gear at a crag you shouldn't be surprised if its gone when you get back. Sure a knowlegeable climber shouldn't take your gear but a noobie or even a park ranger might take it. If you don't own the crag you don't have any right to leave anything there in the first place.
2:The fact that you'd find the people who stole your gear and go straight to the beat down stage is sad. Maybe try a little grunting and some hand gestures to get your gear back, but leave the club slung over your shoulder. (Save that for jane, tarzan).
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fracture
Jan 25, 2005, 10:00 PM
Post #35 of 74
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Registered: Jun 13, 2003
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Someone should do a study and see if there is a correlation between redpoint level and whether a climber considers project draws "trash".
...or maybe they shouldn't: the results would be a bit predictable.
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sarcat
Jan 25, 2005, 10:35 PM
Post #36 of 74
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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Most of us hashed this out in this thread. 15 pages worth.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=828639#828639
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climbsomething
Jan 26, 2005, 1:24 AM
Post #37 of 74
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In reply to: Additionally, if I happen to climb hard and want to try a sport route without relying on pre-placed draws, then your draws hanging on that climb are in the way. If you're there and working the route, that's cool, but if you're not, I have no choice but to either attempt the route with pre-placed draws or to rap and take your draws down.
Fracture did a pretty good job too, though.
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jimdavis
Jan 26, 2005, 2:55 AM
Post #38 of 74
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I think the real answer to your problem here is to suck it up at take your draws down!
If your lazy enough to leave your draws all over the route, then you deserve whatever you get.
You don't own the route, so don't act like you do.
Is it really that hard to put em up and take em down everytime?!?
I can see leaving them up over lunch, but overnight? Your just asking for it.
And no I don't steal gear, I wouldn't climb on it if I did. Karma scares me enough as is.
I'm sure if you told the other climbers what you were thinking they'd give it back and appoligize. But if beating your chest and waiving your fists makes your feel like a man, then enjoy your primal rage (and the trip to jail.)
Jim
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jakedatc
Jan 26, 2005, 3:06 AM
Post #39 of 74
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Jim ur trolling mostly empty waters man.. its been commercially fished out for years and sure you catch a few but nothing to really bring home for dinner
there is a difference between project draws and fixed draws.. i think the right thing is to ask a local what is going on
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jimdavis
Jan 26, 2005, 3:55 AM
Post #40 of 74
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In reply to: Jim ur trolling mostly empty waters man.. its been commercially fished out for years and sure you catch a few but nothing to really bring home for dinner there is a difference between project draws and fixed draws.. i think the right thing is to ask a local what is going on
Not a troll, just an opinion. I don't like fish anyway! :)
If there were locals around there at the time, my guess is they would have said something...no?
Eh, I'm planning on sticking to trad anyway.
Cheers,
Jim
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rockrat_co
Jan 26, 2005, 4:20 AM
Post #41 of 74
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Registered: Sep 26, 2004
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In reply to: Any gear left when you leave is fair game. Common courtesy requires that if you clean stuck or left gear while imediately following a party, you should offer to return it, and gloat appropriately, but they should realize they are just being courtious and under no obligation. You are much more likely to have your gear returned if you are attractive and female. However, bad attitudes may negate even this positive influence. Draws left on sport climbs should always be considered litter, (as should many sport climbs) and cleaned up by the first party with the energy or ability. Finders keepers Loosers weepers
Apearently You dont have a project your working on. I must say, im working on a 5.14+ project wall, ive spent days up there, if someone took my draws i would be really dissapointed cuz i am on a real tight budget, needless to say, repeating all the moves to get them up there and not being able to work on other factors of the climb.
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akicebum
Jan 26, 2005, 4:31 AM
Post #42 of 74
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Registered: Sep 2, 2003
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I hope you got the draws back. If you didn't, you should have thumped the living sh*t out of them. If you did get the draws back, a little intimidation and threatning would do the trick.
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phugganut
Jan 26, 2005, 5:21 AM
Post #43 of 74
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Registered: Jan 17, 2003
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Yeah man I can relate because a similiar thing happened to me. I live in Phoenix, and I'm trying to work on my personal project. It's a bike route on Van Buren, from Central to 44th street. However, someone stole my bike!!! I left it on the route for a couple of days because I couldn't be bothered to transport it from home to the route and back, and some inconsiderate ba$tard stole it! Can you believe that? All I did was leave it there. I am in no way responsible for the bike being stolen. I mean, anyone that knows how to ride a bike should know that it was not their bike. Therefore I am completely without fault in this matter and can act all indignant to the low-lifes that took it. Furthermore, I am completely justified in physically assaulting the person that did it. That's even worse than the inconsiderate fools that try to do "my" route before I complete it. Anyway I hope you get your draws back, and if I ever find the person that stole my bike, they are gonna get the beatdown.
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jimdavis
Jan 26, 2005, 5:49 AM
Post #44 of 74
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In reply to: Yeah man I can relate because a similiar thing happened to me. I live in Phoenix, and I'm trying to work on my personal project. It's a bike route on Van Buren, from Central to 44th street. However, someone stole my bike!!! I left it on the route for a couple of days because I couldn't be bothered to transport it from home to the route and back, and some inconsiderate ba$tard stole it! Can you believe that? All I did was leave it there. I am in no way responsible for the bike being stolen. I mean, anyone that knows how to ride a bike should know that it was not their bike. Therefore I am completely without fault in this matter and can act all indignant to the low-lifes that took it. Furthermore, I am completely justified in physically assaulting the person that did it. That's even worse than the inconsiderate fools that try to do "my" route before I complete it. Anyway I hope you get your draws back, and if I ever find the person that stole my bike, they are gonna get the beatdown.
That one takes the cake. WE HAVE A WINNER! :lol:
Well put!
Jim
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timd
Jan 26, 2005, 6:50 AM
Post #45 of 74
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Registered: Dec 21, 2003
Posts: 862
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Climbers who steal fromother climbers are scum! The gods of vertical pleasures will strike them down for sure. Karma is real bitch, especially when your 100 feet off the deck!
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cchildre
Feb 1, 2005, 8:37 PM
Post #46 of 74
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Registered: May 5, 2004
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Our area we can leave draws up all the time. In fact several of our routes have a set of fixed draws. Anyone comes by and jacks them are just looking from the beat down, not from me but the guys that semi manage the area. Our area is a bit of an exception, we know almost everyone who climbs there, no tourists, noobs stay under tight control. Last weekend we had access to well over a hundred routes to spread between the seven climbers that congested the area. It was just dreadful LMFAO :)
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tradjunkie
Feb 3, 2005, 12:33 AM
Post #47 of 74
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Registered: May 31, 2004
Posts: 13
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damn!! all these years of climbing and i've been going about it the wrong way. i never knew that i was supposed to try and climb something that was so hard it took me weeks and months of effort. now i know how the hard climbers do it.
i'm just a little confused about getting the draws on the route. should i aid climb it or rap in from the top? or maybe i should find someone else to put the draws up, that way i won't have to waste all that energy getting shut down cause i can't do the moves.
so next time you see my draws on a route you better back off. that's my route! i was here first! and you can't climb on it! and nanna, nanna, boo, boo and i bunch of other bull shit....
jesus, i can't believe knowingly responded to this thead....
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1800lotions
Feb 3, 2005, 12:42 AM
Post #48 of 74
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Registered: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 76
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Trad Junkie, You are the last guy on the planet I would call to join me on an expedition..... You are also the first I will call to get tax advice!
This thread was not designed to make you feel like a 5.8 poser...It was designed to see how people feel about gear theifs.
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reno
Feb 3, 2005, 1:21 AM
Post #49 of 74
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Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
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"Theft or not theft?"
While that issue will be debated for as long as time will continue, my biggest question is this:
Why didn't you just say "Um, hey, fellas? Those quickdraws are mine. I left them hanging on a route I was working, so may I have them back? In case you don't know, or are not from around here, leaving draws on the bolts is a common practice at this crag, and the local ethic is to leave them hanging. Thanks, and I appreciate your understanding."
Why did you feel the need to "put the beat down"? One would think adults could settle such issues without violence.
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gunksgoer
Feb 3, 2005, 1:53 AM
Post #50 of 74
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Registered: Sep 27, 2004
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if someone has pre-placed draws or pro on a climb, leave them alone. If you want to do the route, do it pinkpoint style, clipping their gear (unless its a newroute, and the setter is projecting it, thats low). If you dont like it, wait your turn, and get on another route in the meantime.
BUT, i also think that if you leave your gear on a route, you shouldnt complain if other people do the route with your gear, since you are hogging it otherwise.
I think this applies to both sport and trad. Many hard trad lines (especially overhanging ones) have the gear pre-placed, on aid or rap. One classic example would be twilight zone at the gunks. The massive roof has about an entire racks worth of fixed gear under it, with cams, pitons, nuts, etc, placed for recent free attempts, as well as 40 years of mank. If i aided it, taking all the fixed gear i could pluck with me, my ass would be beat if i ever showed my face it new paltz again. There are somethings you just dont do, and scarfing gear and draws is one of them.
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