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bluefunk
Feb 6, 2005, 1:58 AM
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I read somewhere that MP3 players don't work at altitude. I work at a ski resort and I know mine works at 10,000 fine. I want to brink mine to Denali this June but don't want to srew it up. What is everybodys MP3 altitude record, and did they survive?
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neurostar
Feb 6, 2005, 2:04 AM
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I don't know about them spontaneously breaking due to altitude, but I know playback time will deteriorate due to the cold. But I'm sure you already knew that.
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tyify
Feb 6, 2005, 2:15 AM
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Most mp3 players have very very few moving parts so I see no reason they would break because of that. Maybe it could be because at altitude its typically cold and the LCD's freeze. Batteries arn't near as effective at altitude either. Any of these could be classified as "Not working". What kinda mp3 player you talking about to? The smaller ones are just RAM with a interface....the larger capacity ones like the iPod are actual harddrives...I don't know how they would do at altitude...
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neurostar
Feb 6, 2005, 2:17 AM
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Oh, one thing I've noticed just around town... My ipod screen is extremely hard to read when it's cold out.
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gunksgoer
Feb 6, 2005, 2:41 AM
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LCD = liquid crystal display (i think). liquid freezes when its cold. u might be better off with something without a screen (or the smaller the screen the better) and also uses regular batteries, instead of the rechargeable ones in ipods wich can be hard to recharge if u dont have an outlet.
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toaster_rancher
Feb 6, 2005, 2:46 AM
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Yes over 10,000 you are risking your MP3 player. But only a specific kind, portable hardrive players. The iPod is an example. Basically if it makes whirring noises the sucker has a hardrive. This is because normal air pressure mantains a nanoscopic distance between the hardrive's writer and the hard disk itself. A drop in air pressure can cause this writer to whack into the hardisk (imagine xacto knife on CD) and it will severly damage it. A lot of people say that they've brought thier iPod above 10,000 and its been fine (just like you) but this evidence to the contrary of the manufactuer's statement is largely anecdotal. Your safest bet is to leave it at home and pick up a memory stick with playback capability. Those are lighter than hardrive MP3 players too although they do hold less songs. I don't believe that they have the 10,000 restriction.
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outdoorsie
Feb 6, 2005, 3:03 AM
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Heh that's interesting. Makes sence, but I hadn't heard much about it. I was thinking about getting one of these microdrives for my digital camera, but if I can't take it up a 14er without risk of a touchdown, maybe it's not worth the investment. :?
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just_me
Feb 7, 2005, 2:18 AM
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Toasted_rancher is right. The read/write head in a hard drive flies above the media. The head has an air bearing pattern etched into it that allows it to fly above the media. Heads are guaranteed to work up to 10,000 feet only. Actual performance is subject to a lot of different manufacturing tolerances. You may get lucky and find one that works well above 10,000. Backpacker magazine had an article about climbers in the Himalaya. One climber has his iPod work up t 17,000 feet. However, you may be the unlucky one who MP3 player crashes. Once the heads touch down you will be lucky if it only damages a part of the disk and you loose a song or two. If the head sticks to the disk, it can get ripped of the gimbal, and your player is toast.
If you are going to need reliable memory (whether it is for music or pictures) above 10,000 feet, flash memory is the way to go.
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bluefunk
Feb 7, 2005, 4:56 PM
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Thanks for the help everybody. I think this is the first time I got a question answered on the site without some smart a*& response, thanks
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rendog
Feb 7, 2005, 6:16 PM
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In reply to: Thanks for the help everybody. I think this is the first time I got a question answered on the site without some smart a*& response, thanks
well hell man if I'd known that then I'm sure we coulda figured something put
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josephgdawson
Feb 8, 2005, 5:16 PM
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Does anyone have anecdotal evidence of an IPOD breaking at altitude? The theory seems cut and dry and makes sense, but we all know that ratings, such as an IPOD being good up to 10,000, are usually conservative.
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rongoodman
Feb 9, 2005, 1:55 PM
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The rating is probably conservative, but at some point the lower air pressure will cause a problem with the disk drive. The obvious solution is to get one of the new iPod Shuffles, which is Flash memory based, with no moving parts or LCD screen. They're about the size of a pack of chewing gum. An external battery pack is coming, which will take two AAA batteries. I was glad to have my iPod with me last year sitting out the snow storm on the Ruth, but the Shuffle appears to have been designed for mountaineering.
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crag
Feb 9, 2005, 2:11 PM
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Why would you want to have music drumming in your ears in the first place? To remove yourself from the environment that you're in? To help pass time when you’re tent-bound? I thought that Alpine climbing was about the suffering not the comforts. Unless these memory flash sticks can rid my partner and me for that matter, of the common Patagucci stench I see know need to bring such a device on the mountain. Plus why would I want to drown out the high pitch call of the Marmot as they've located my food stash or the constant bickering of the Ravens. Wouldn't you want to hear the crashing and falling of the ice, the creaking and groaning of the glacier or the mid afternoon avalanche? However if the music can help drown out the little voice in my head as I move above the crux or the “no-turn-around point” of the climb then there is merit in these high altitude devices.
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ikefromla
Feb 9, 2005, 3:23 PM
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In reply to: Why would you want to have music drumming in your ears in the first place? To remove yourself from the environment that you're in? To help pass time when you’re tent-bound? I thought that Alpine climbing was about the suffering not the comforts. Unless these memory flash sticks can rid my partner and me for that matter, of the common Patagucci stench I see know need to bring such a device on the mountain. Plus why would I want to drown out the high pitch call of the Marmot as they've located my food stash or the constant bickering of the Ravens. Wouldn't you want to hear the crashing and falling of the ice, the creaking and groaning of the glacier or the mid afternoon avalanche? However if the music can help drown out the little voice in my head as I move above the crux or the “no-turn-around point” of the climb then there is merit in these high altitude devices.
heh
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bluefunk
Feb 9, 2005, 4:10 PM
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In reply to: Thanks for the help everybody. I think this is the first time I got a question answered on the site without some smart a*& response, thanks
Ding Ding we have a winner. Thank you Crag for you smart A@# resonse. I was wondering when one was comeing? You are totaly right I see the light. I just sold my house and car and moved in to a cave to comune with nature. Anyway have to go meditate and have sex with a tree, thanks for the advice
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rongoodman
Feb 9, 2005, 4:32 PM
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A couple of hours of listening to the snow hit the tent wall might be entertaining--three days was a little hard to take. The guys in the other tents were reduced to playing Batttleship, shouting out the moves from one tent to the oher. I'll be taking my Shuffle back this year and hopefully will only want to use it on the flights up and back.
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crag
Feb 9, 2005, 4:55 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Thanks for the help everybody. I think this is the first time I got a question answered on the site without some smart a*& response, thanks Ding Ding we have a winner. Thank you Crag for you smart A@# resonse. I was wondering when one was comeing? You are totaly right I see the light. I just sold my house and car and moved in to a cave to comune with nature. Anyway have to go meditate and have sex with a tree, thanks for the advice
Sorry was just trying to be funny, if you want to take a compressor up a route have at it, matters not to me. Also, thought the nana-sphincter answer about the writer floating above the media was really cool and the effects of barometric pressure were top notch stuff, would have never thought of it myself, but then again I'm an elitists: :wink:
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kman
Feb 9, 2005, 5:06 PM
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LCD's are good to approx. -20c before they freeze up.
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all_that_is_rock
Feb 10, 2005, 12:04 PM
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i took my ipod on a failed attempt of danali. i got to about 15,000 feet when i turned back and it worked. to prevent the cold i had a pocket near my armpi so it never got to cold
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esoj00
Feb 10, 2005, 7:34 PM
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Strange enough i have experience here, i lived at 13,000 in quito ecuador and my ipod worked fine, i also am a mountaineer and have summited a couple of 22,000. My ipod ive ran it at 16,000 at base camps but above that it dies, within 1 hour of stead gain, battery almost full as i left base camp and within my jacket, so temp was not an issue. I guess its the preasure up there that screws around with it. Inreply to someone about the music pounding your ears. when your on a 20 hour climb with a 12 hour glacier traverse you start to hate the world, music makes that go away. The guides if gone up with all used radios (fm am) cd playersor tapeplayers, MD's also work. There is something about Hard drives that messes up. My advice get one of those little wearable mp3's those dont have hard drives, thats what im getting for my summer in peru :)
hopes this helps
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bandycoot
Feb 10, 2005, 8:12 PM
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My buddy is a climbing ranger on Denali. I remember him telling me that everyone's mp3 players broke while they were up there, but I don't remember what part broke. Maybe the battery crapped out, maybe something else. Too bad he moved to Italy, I'll see if I can get clarification from him through e-mail.
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sandbag
Feb 10, 2005, 9:03 PM
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What the hell happened to just taking a good book, a trip journal or a harmonica? Jeebus, next thing you know people will take their portable DVD players if they make them lite enough...... :shock:
A buddy of mine that formerly flew Navy jets said basically the climate control and pressurized cockpits were for the computers. they needed to be 'happy' he explained.... :P
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pixelguru
Feb 10, 2005, 10:01 PM
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Now who said you have to listen to MUSIC on your iPod at 14,000 feet. How about a continuous recording of R LEE yelling:
"MOVE YOUR FEET YOUR WORTHLESS MAGGOT!!! WHAT'S THE MATTER, IS THIS MOUNTAIN TOO HIGH FOR YOU? MAYBE YOU SHOULD RUN BACK TO YOUR MOTHER YOU UNORGANIZED PIECE OF GRABASTIC SLIME!!!!"
...and my recommendation is to go with something solid state like an Apple Shuffle. They're smaller, lighter, and when your oxygen starved brain gets confused and tries to brew it like a tea bag, you're only out $100.
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carbo
Feb 10, 2005, 10:02 PM
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I just read the article in Backpacker latest issue (Gearguide). In short (as stated by others) it could work fine and it could crash due to harddrive malfuction at lower airpressure. I would get an mp3 player w/o a hardrive like iPod shuffle
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pixelguru
Feb 10, 2005, 10:02 PM
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Now who said you have to listen to MUSIC on your iPod at 14,000 feet. How about a continuous recording of R LEE yelling:
"MOVE YOUR FEET YOUR WORTHLESS MAGGOT!!! WHAT'S THE MATTER, IS THIS MOUNTAIN TOO HIGH FOR YOU? MAYBE YOU SHOULD RUN BACK TO YOUR MOTHER YOU UNORGANIZED PIECE OF GRABASTIC SLIME!!!!"
...and my recommendation is to go with something solid state like an Apple Shuffle. They're smaller, lighter, and when your oxygen starved brain gets confused and tries to brew it like a tea bag, you're only out $100.
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pixelguru
Feb 10, 2005, 10:05 PM
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Whoa... cool echo.
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t-dog
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Feb 10, 2005, 11:09 PM
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In reply to: and when your oxygen starved brain gets confused and tries to brew it like a tea bag, you're only out $100.
Awesome, now I know why I've always lived close to the ocean :P
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tempestwind
Feb 11, 2005, 3:03 AM
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Flash memory eh? Very interesting..I see that some of the posts are against music I say Nay, Nothing like a little mozart to help you along that crux of your route :D
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foursquarewarmup
Feb 11, 2005, 4:04 AM
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I remember reading once that one of the Bengas brothers used a mp3 player on his way through the Khumbu Icefall and to Camp 1 on his way to doing the Crystal Snake on Nuptse. Thats around 19,900 feet.
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crag
Feb 12, 2005, 2:36 PM
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In reply to: What the hell happened to just taking a good book, a trip journal or a harmonica?
....or when your partner comes down with a bad case of HAFE. Certainly wouldn't want to isolate yourself away from that wonderful auditory experience.
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jeff788
Feb 27, 2005, 7:12 PM
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For what its worth I have an RCA flash-memory style that I took on Mt. Ranier and it worked great. I've left it in my car overnight here in Utah and found the LCD frozen in the morning. It wouldn't play music until it unthawed, but after that it worked great. I think MP3 players are great for some parts of mountaineering like long approach marches, sitting out a storm... I think the only problem comes when on technical ground and communication with your partners is essential and when there are objective hazards are a concern. Getting nailed by a rock fall that you could have heard comming would be a bummer for everyone.
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republiclimber
Feb 27, 2005, 8:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: What the hell happened to just taking a good book, a trip journal or a harmonica? ....or when your partner comes down with a bad case of HAFE. Certainly wouldn't want to isolate yourself away from that wonderful auditory experience.
HAFE?
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lazyjammin
Feb 27, 2005, 8:31 PM
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I dont know too much about the MP3 players at altitude, but I have one very similar to an IPOd and it has a tendency when it gets cold to freeze, and then it takes about two-three days at room temp to thaw it out before it will play again.
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daisuke
Feb 27, 2005, 8:57 PM
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get the new ipod shuffle, put it in a bag and stick it under your armpit or somewhere warm, end of problem, the battery even lasts longer.
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arsenalcrater
Feb 27, 2005, 9:43 PM
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Flash memory eh? Very interesting..I see that some of the posts are against music I say Nay, Nothing like a little mozart to help you along that crux of your route
Hmmmm....I was thinking of somthing more motivating.....Like SLAYER! How about Piece By Piece? "The only way to exit is going piece by piece." Now if that doesn't motivate you through the crux....
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crag
Feb 28, 2005, 12:44 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: What the hell happened to just taking a good book, a trip journal or a harmonica? ....or when your partner comes down with a bad case of HAFE. Certainly wouldn't want to isolate yourself away from that wonderful auditory experience. HAFE?
High Alltitude Flatulant Expulsions (emission)
FARTING
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kpj240789
Feb 28, 2005, 1:50 AM
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It works in planes at 35,000 ft. that is a pressurized cabin but I don't know why it wouldn't work.
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microbarn
Feb 28, 2005, 2:10 AM
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In reply to: Toasted_rancher is right.
In recent years the heads are not held away from the disks by air. They are pulled into the disk by a vacuum formed beneath the head. Mostly the same idea as you mentioned, but instead of pushing the heads away they are normally away and get pulled into the disk.
THEREFORE, if you go up and you play a hard disk drive based MP3 player at high altitudes and it doesn't work then you are still not going to damage anything. It just won't be able to form enough vacuum to pull the heads into the disks, and you won't ever get it to play.
However, it will be less robust to impacts. This isn't a big problem because with MP3 player usage, the hard drives can be parked in a safe position for a large majority of the time you are using them. They have sensors to tell them when they are being dropped. Additionally, the smaller drives are inherently more robust then a desktop drive. So, it would be a reasonably safe venture to take the player at high altitudes.
I am researching hard drives for my PhD. I cannot say anything about the LCD screen.
In reply to: If you are going to need reliable memory (whether it is for music or pictures) above 10,000 feet, flash memory is the way to go.
This thread seems to be drifting away from the technical stuff, so PM me if you want to know more. I am not watching this thread because I don't care if you put headphones on or not while outdoors.
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uzziah
Mar 14, 2005, 6:58 AM
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go for a flash player. they do not have moving parts. players such as ipod are hard drive players thus moving parts
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gineth
Mar 14, 2005, 2:23 PM
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My mp3, worked fine on my climb on Aconcagua.
I listen to music all the time, just keep it warm. I was listening to music at camp 2 19300' and summit day I took it with me. So I don't think there is a problem for you to take it to Denali. And still works fine.
So mine made it to 22841' and back, you'll be fine to 20320'.
Good luck :wink:
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gineth
Mar 14, 2005, 2:24 PM
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My mp3, worked fine on my climb on Aconcagua.
I listen to music all the time, just keep it warm. I was listening to music at camp 2 19300' and summit day I took it with me. So I don't think there is a problem for you to take it to Denali. And still works fine.
So mine made it to 22841' and back, you'll be fine to 20320'.
Good luck :wink:
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jude
Mar 21, 2005, 4:23 PM
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I just got a Lyra for Denali in May. It uses SD cards. Capacity is low, but it advertises 20 hours on AA. I know I wont get that, but it’s a lot better than my hard drive based MP3, and it’s field replaceable. Also much lighter than a hard drive or books, and includes FM. I digitize books on tape at 16 kbps. Not good enough for music, but fine for spoken voice. I wouldn’t listen to music to climb, but maybe this will keep me from killing and eating my tent mates on day four of the storm. The drawback is that it doesn’t double as white gold. I should be back in early June, so I’ll let you know.
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