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lewisiarediviva
Apr 28, 2005, 5:33 AM
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To respond to a lot of the threads going currently: You can not be a good girl climber because as soon as someone takes a picture of you making a great move- the photo will be scrutinized as being sexual. Crazy, considering you could take a photo of a guy in the same pose and no one would think a thing, except "wow, look at that move!"
[Months later I add this- Read this carefully, do you really think a woman who wants to climb would claim you can't because of photo's? I tried to keep this post simple, but make a point to those scrutinize rs. I wonder why they tear apart a beautiful thing on a rock, while they try to flow up the rock- why do they bother. As far as I'm concerned I could have said "You can not be a good girl_____ because as soon as someone takes a picture of you ______- the photo will be scrutinized as being sexual." You need to relax!]
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unabonger
May 1, 2005, 12:38 AM
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In reply to: To respond to a lot of the threads going currently: You can not be a good girl climber because as soon as someone takes a picture of you making a great move- the photo will be scrutinized as being sexual. Crazy, considering you could take a photo of a guy in the same pose and no one would think a thing, except "wow, look at that move!"
Interesting. Sometimes I am both in admiration of a woman's climbing ability and also simultaneously sexually attracted to her. I didn't realize those two concepts are actually mutually exclusive!
UB
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rosemom3
May 1, 2005, 9:02 PM
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I think the issue is more about the camera angle. How many photos of women in magazines seem to include crotch shots with gaping or short shorts on. I think many if not all of us women are willing to own our own sexuality/sensualness but the climb is not about giving you guys a crotch shot its about the fact that we can high step really well when most of you are doing a pull-up instead. Go ahead and enjoy your physiological response but don't deny us the beauty, stength, and technical skill inherent in our womanly climbing.
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shorty
May 2, 2005, 12:02 AM
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In reply to: ...you could take a photo of a guy in the same pose and no one would think a thing, except "wow, look at that move!"
In reply to: I think the issue is more about the camera angle. How many photos of women in magazines seem to include crotch shots with gaping or short shorts on. |
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changling
May 2, 2005, 12:41 AM
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Could be that guys are more open when they see an attractive woman, whereas women are not as open when they see an attractive man.
I don't consider photos of women climbers sexual in anyway, but then again, I'm not attracted to women. Now if I see a picture of a good looking climber man, I'll look at it longer.
As to why people make such a big deal out of pictures like the one featured on Climbing a while back... I guess people love to complain about things. Then again, complainers make more noise than those who don't, so it might just be a few people that feel that way, and not the majority.
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lewisiarediviva
May 7, 2005, 3:46 PM
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In reply to: How many photos of women in magazines seem to include crotch shots with gaping or short shorts on.
If the woman is comfortable, she is comfortable. If the person with the camera is below, they're below. Granted, I took my daughter out of dance class at age 6 because I didn't want her rolling around on the floor and whipping her hair around on stage, but it's not like ballet and gymnastics don't get crotch shots. If a woman can do something amazing that should be the focus, not her crotch. Like rosemom3 say's, "own our own sexuality/sensualness" I don't know that many of us are flaunting it. But some of us girls sure are fast to accuse. Makes me wonder if their so intune with sexuality that they can't climb.
I don't think their is anything wrong with sensuality, I think most guys can still see a great move when they see it, whether it's sensual or not. I just wish I could hear the end of the ladies on both extreems: the throw it your face that you can't make a move or it's sexual (move to Afganastan) or those who are so uncomfortable with themselve as women that they have to be shockingly sexual because it's all they think they have.
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gwenhwyvar
May 9, 2005, 1:20 AM
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I think it comes down to the fact that men are generally just more easily turned on by pictures, and take them sexually. Every (heterosexual) male climber I know is turned on by women climbers in general, particularly if they are attractive and especially if they are really good. Hence, no matter what the angle of the shot is (which is likely to be above and hence include the breast shot, or below and include the butt shot) the guys are going to react sexually to women climbers. I don't think we ought to be offended by that. Personally, the first thing I do after noticing how impressive any given move in a climbing picture of a guy is, is notice if he's hot or not. Nice shoulder, nice abs, nice back etc.
For women to climb comfortably in warm-hot weather, they will need to climb in a sports bra, small tank top, bikini top or whatever. And as long as they're comfortable who cares. Guys, likewise will climb shirtless. Those two things are pretty much equal as far as skimpy clothing is concerned, but women seem to take more offense at shots of female climbers being scantilly clad. It's just that men climbing shirtless doesn't involve showing off anything that we consider the equivalent of a breast. So, there are two ways to adjust to that, 1. start looking at men more sexually in those photos so you don't feel that women are being objectified in equivalent photos or, 2. stop thinking that the fact that a woman is having her picture taken in a bikini top means she's bieng objectified; that 's probably just how she likes to climb.
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iamthewallress
May 9, 2005, 4:46 PM
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In reply to: Interesting. Sometimes I am both in admiration of a woman's climbing ability and also simultaneously sexually attracted to her. I didn't realize those two concepts are actually mutually exclusive!
They're definately not, but I can relate to the original poster. The comments about the bodies/looks of women in the climbing photos posted here definately get old for me. There's been a pic of a woman leading a 5.11 on gear on the front page and a large number of the comments debate whether or not people approve of the way that she looks.
The hottie comments are maybe not always in the best taste, but I don't think that they're a big deal compared to the ones where someone criticizes a woman pulling hard b/c she doesn't fit their idea of how a woman is supposed to look.
IRL most men have clued in that they can control the urge to touch the body parts of random women that turn them on, and that the women will appreciate this restraint. Likewise, they don't usually pic on the girls that they don't find attractive. If more guys would control their behavior in their photo comments the same way, then I would encourage them to oggle the pics of the pretty girls to their hearts desire and value their climbing maneuvres or not, as per their own less obnoxiously displayed preferences.
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shorty
May 9, 2005, 5:19 PM
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In reply to: ...start looking at men more sexually in those photos so you don't feel that women are being objectified in equivalent photos...
- more time on the ab lounge
- pull ups, pull ups, and more pull ups
- in with the Diet Coke, out with the Krispy Kremes
- photo shop is our best friend
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hangerlessbolt
May 10, 2005, 5:43 AM
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In reply to: Every (heterosexual) male climber I know is turned on by women climbers in general, particularly if they are attractive...
'Nuff said
(Which some folks will turn into a "men are pigs" spray...the fact is, it's the way we're wired. Check out Shorty's post...it's dead on)
In reply to: But then again, I'm just a clueless, red-blooded guy who thinks most female climbers dressed on the shy side of a burka can be pretty darn sensuous.
Later,
Rob
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nikegirl
May 10, 2005, 2:56 PM
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video, of myself, and it's a turn off...
I've got a problem with turrets*
cussing, or if trying not to, I take waaaay to long
cuz I'm concentrating on not cussing...and not concentrating on climbing.
women are beautiful climbing.
sexual, or not...
all shapes and sizes
women appreciate the other women
men are just wired different.
~T
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ultramegaclassic
May 10, 2005, 2:58 PM
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In reply to: You can not be a good girl climber because as soon as someone takes a picture of you making a great move- the photo will be scrutinized as being sexual. Crazy, considering you could take a photo of a guy in the same pose and no one would think a thing, except "wow, look at that move!"
I totally disagree. If I look at a pic of a girl climber making a great move I think "cor blimey, great move", whereas if I see a pic of a guy in the same pose I simply think "wow, check out that hot climber dude!"
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mother_sheep
May 10, 2005, 3:01 PM
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In reply to: You can not be a good girl climber because as soon as someone takes a picture of you making a great move- the photo will be scrutinized as being sexual.
Wrong! You can still be a good climber regardless of what ANYONE thinks/says. And if someone thinks you're sexy while doing it, right on!
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seagypsy
May 12, 2005, 5:48 AM
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[quote="lewisiarediviva"]To respond to a lot of the threads going currently: You can not be a good girl climber because as soon as someone takes a picture of you making a great move- the photo will be scrutinized as being sexual. Crazy, considering you could take a photo of a guy in the same pose and no one would think a thing, except "wow, look at that move!"
when I see a photo of a guy making a great move I wonder what he must be like in bed. I objectify him and have lewd fantasies about him getting my name tattooed on his ass.
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karlbaba
May 12, 2005, 7:15 AM
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There was an interesting piece on NPR awhile back about Testosterone. It included interviews with folks who, for mostly medical reasons, had their testosterone either boosted or cut down. Amazing what a difference it makes.
One woman, a feminist lesbian, had her testosterone boosted. Previously she had always looked at women and it would lead to an internal discourse wondering what that woman might be like, what it would be like to talk with her, and so on. After the testosterone, she was horrified that her new response to seeing attractive women was direct gawking and lusting. She would tell herself "don't look, don't check out her breasts" and still, she would break down and stare.
See girls, we guys suffer from testosterone poisoning. It's worse than PMS cause we have it 24/7. Sorry
peace
Karl
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mother_sheep
May 12, 2005, 2:13 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: To respond to a lot of the threads going currently: You can not be a good girl climber because as soon as someone takes a picture of you making a great move- the photo will be scrutinized as being sexual. Crazy, considering you could take a photo of a guy in the same pose and no one would think a thing, except "wow, look at that move!" when I see a photo of a guy making a great move I wonder what he must be like in bed. I objectify him and have lewd fantasies about him getting my name tattooed on his ass.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!! Glad I'm not the only one. HAHAHAHA!!! :lol:
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unabonger
May 12, 2005, 4:41 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Interesting. Sometimes I am both in admiration of a woman's climbing ability and also simultaneously sexually attracted to her. I didn't realize those two concepts are actually mutually exclusive! They're definately not, but I can relate to the original poster. The comments about the bodies/looks of women in the climbing photos posted here definately get old for me. There's been a pic of a woman leading a 5.11 on gear on the front page and a large number of the comments debate whether or not people approve of the way that she looks.
Yes, that's just obnoxious. I guess I just see the OP as farting in the wind. This site serves as a diaper for the diarrhea that certain people want to spew and its certainly stinks sometimes, its most unseemly in the photo gallery for pics of women. And men aren't immune to the same treatment. Last time I checked my gallery, there were a shitload of comments about my looks, none about my climbing ability. Not that I'm complaining--and there's certainly a difference between paying someone a compliment and making a crude sexual comment. Inability to restrain yourself from making base comments is the mark of a dull mind.
There is, of course, a solution for the poster of pics...don't allow comments. The pic will speak for itself and the shitmouths can choke on their own breath.
UB
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iamthewallress
May 12, 2005, 4:59 PM
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In reply to: Last time I checked my gallery, there were a s--- of comments about my looks, none about my climbing ability.
:oops: Guilty. But I was strictly complementary! (And well aware of it as carefully wrote my disclaimer about appreciative comments not in the best taste, but mean things about how someone looks totally out of line...especially when the subject did not post the picture.)
In reply to: There is, of course, a solution for the poster of pics...don't allow comments. The pic will speak for itself and the s--- can choke on their own breath.
I allow comments for my pics. I just don't post any that are actually in focus for the humans. This is my lame little solution.
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off_center
May 13, 2005, 2:26 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: when I see a photo of a guy making a great move I wonder what he must be like in bed. I objectify him and have lewd fantasies about him getting my name tattooed on his ass. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!! Glad I'm not the only one. HAHAHAHA!!! :lol:
So how 'bout you ladies be a little more vocal and encourage the other ladies? :D
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lewisiarediviva
May 13, 2005, 2:26 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: You can not be a good girl climber because as soon as someone takes a picture of you making a great move- the photo will be scrutinized as being sexual. Crazy, considering you could take a photo of a guy in the same pose and no one would think a thing, except "wow, look at that move!" I totally disagree. If I look at a pic of a girl climber making a great move I think "cor blimey, great move", whereas if I see a pic of a guy in the same pose I simply think "wow, check out that hot climber dude!"
I have to admit, I'm pretty much the same.
Thank you all for posting your comments. I was really getting tired of all the winey threads in the Ladie's Room on the subject.
Just in case any of "They" are reading this I will have you know that baggy clothing on the rock is pretty dangerous.
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feral_raccoon
May 13, 2005, 2:58 AM
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In reply to: So how 'bout you ladies be a little more vocal and encourage the other ladies? :D
off_center, if you want us gals to have lewd fantasies about you and objectify you for your stunning good looks, you at least need to post some photos of yourself without your shirt on on terrifically hard climbs ;)
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kimmyt
May 13, 2005, 12:29 PM
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Heck, I'll just take the shirt-off thing.
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blonde_loves_bolts
May 13, 2005, 9:22 PM
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In reply to: Could be that guys are more open when they see an attractive woman, whereas women are not as open when they see an attractive man.
Regardless of what Tag Body Spray would have you think, and with the possible exception of male dancers at Chippendale's, men don't spend most days of their lives contemplating how to fend off women. Whether it's work related, media related, or sports activities where men and women have comparable abilities, women are consistently more subject to their ability being viewed as secondary to their appearance, consciously or not. I'm not saying all men are responsible for this gender gap, and I'm not saying that some women either perpetuate or aren't affected by it. But there definitely is a gender gap.
I've played sports my entire life. It is branded on my brain that I have a prefix permanently attached to whatever profiency I am working on or displaying - "woman" before "climber" or "rower," etc. We are non-verbally told that we are women first, athletes second. So when we see types like the aforementioned pictures, though it is usually possible to appreciate artistic creativity, it is the reinforcement of the photo of everything that we are supposed to live up to. It generally has nothing to do with the actual picture itself.
As for the photos on this site, I think many are in good taste. As long as the camera isn't aimed down a woman's shirt with a tiny bit of rock in the blurry background, I say the more, the merrier. The only thing I usually take issue with on this site are some of the more childish, asinine comments in response to the photos.
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changling
May 14, 2005, 3:25 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Could be that guys are more open when they see an attractive woman, whereas women are not as open when they see an attractive man. Whether it's work related, media related, or sports activities where men and women have comparable abilities, women are consistently more subject to their ability being viewed as secondary to their appearance, consciously or not. I'm not saying all men are responsible for this gender gap, and I'm not saying that some women either perpetuate or aren't affected by it. But there definitely is a gender gap.
I don't notice it with myself at all. Some people do things or look at things differently, but to base it entirely on gender is generalizing too much. I look at guys and decide whether they are attractive or not without paying attention to any of their abilities. Eye candy is nice from time to time. When I look at a picture of a guy climbing, the first thing that comes to my mind is "is he cute?".
In reply to: I've played sports my entire life. It is branded on my brain that I have a prefix permanently attached to whatever profiency I am working on or displaying - "woman" before "climber" or "rower," etc. We are non-verbally told that we are women first, athletes second. So when we see types like the aforementioned pictures, though it is usually possible to appreciate artistic creativity, it is the reinforcement of the photo of everything that we are supposed to live up to. It generally has nothing to do with the actual picture itself.
It's certainly not a gender issue. These are all personal issues. I have never seen myself as "woman" first before anything else. I recognize my uniqueness and to group myself with 50% of the human population doesn't do me, as well as to anybody else, justice.
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comet
May 16, 2005, 2:02 AM
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i'll admit to objectifying attractive male OR female climbers in a nice shot. either way, i'm...inspired :)
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