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marionk
Jan 12, 2006, 3:37 PM
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Just curious how "hard core" you consider yourself to be.
I'm not in very good shape, but for me I'm doing pretty good. (Considering I just lost 40 lbs last year! )
Right now I'm in the first stages of the romance with climbing. Reading, thinking, planning, obsessing, shopping. But relatively little DO-ing, unfortunately. (Only climbing indoors 1-3 times a week.) But I've got some goals set, and I plan on meeting them all!
I think that it's almost more intimidating dealing with the hard core chicks than it is with "that guy" at the gym. At least "that guy" is patient and explains stuff, even if he's only trying to impress me! The girls seem more impatient with those of us who are softer, so to speak.
And yes, I wear mascara! I don't sweat all *that* much yet, as I'm working on body positioning, etc.
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kimmyt
Jan 12, 2006, 4:02 PM
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I'm so hardk0re that I sleep on a portaledge all the time. I have it hanging above my bed. I'm just way too hardk0re for that mattress.
I'm so hardk0re that all of the biners on my keychain are REAL!
I'm so hardk0re that I eat Clif bars for lunch EVERY DAY.
I wear prAna clothes to work, and I don't shower for days (because I want to feel like I'm in the backcountry all the time, man, even though I live in the 'burbs and I've never been farther than an hour's travel from a town/rescue service).
If you cut me, I bleed VitaminWater. That's how hardk0re I am.
(p.s. I'm not picking on you, the term 'hardcore' just makes me giggle. And no, none of those things really apply to me so I guess I'm just not hardcore.)
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marionk
Jan 12, 2006, 4:07 PM
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:lol: Don't worry, I didn't take you seriously. I'm intimidated by others at the wall, not on the board!
I love watching others climb. I just wish some of them seemed less "superior" in their attitudes. I climb with a bunch of super girls, but all are newbies, and we could use a helping hand now and then! But hey, it never hurt anyone (permanently, anyway) to learn the hard way!
Edited for spelling.
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kimmyt
Jan 12, 2006, 4:16 PM
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Tip: most of the time, people that come off as 'snobbish' are really just shy. Go talk to them. Don't be like really pushy or anything, but after you've been around for a few weeks steadily, they'll notice that you're a regular too, and conversation will happen. I don't really talk to many people at the gym, but recently I've gotten in with a really great group of people and we laugh and joke it up. I even share smiles and sometimes tips with others I see struggling (I try not to do it very much, though, unless they ask, because I know many people don't want unsolicited beta).
If you really admire the way a particular person climbs, go up and tell him/her that you'd really like some tips from them. Most people will be flattered and help you out!
K.
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macherry
Jan 12, 2006, 4:18 PM
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In reply to: I'm so hardk0re that I sleep on a portaledge all the time. I have it hanging above my bed. I'm just way too hardk0re for that mattress. I'm so hardk0re that all of the biners on my keychain are REAL! I'm so hardk0re that I eat Clif bars for lunch EVERY DAY. I wear prAna clothes to work, and I don't shower for days (because I want to feel like I'm in the backcountry all the time, man, even though I live in the 'burbs and I've never been farther than an hour's travel from a town/rescue service). If you cut me, I bleed VitaminWater. That's how hardk0re I am. (p.s. I'm not picking on you, the term 'hardcore' just makes me giggle. And no, none of those things really apply to me so I guess I'm just not hardcore.)
i'm not worthy!!! :lol:
seriously, i've seen the hardcore chick in skiing and climbing. I believe the superior atittude you're seeing sometimes comes from insecurity/youth/ and closing ranks (throwback to high school cliques).
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nola_angie
Jan 12, 2006, 6:03 PM
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I know I can be kinda hardcore at times, but mostly, I just like to climb, cook and watch West Wing....
I'd like to say all women at the gym/crag would have enough of a sense of sisterhood to stop what they are doing to help another woman with something she's stuck on (provided she wants the help).I'd like to say all women at the crag/gym would be friendly, open and supportive of a new female climber. Just 'aint that way, tho.
My hardcore chick story- there was one climber and her partner- they were tough as hell, *brawny* as mountains and their skill levels- my GOD...it was like watching goddesses climb. Here I was, new to Louisiana, new to the gym...I wish I could say we became fast friends, but we didn't. It took a month for them to even say hello to me. Turns out, even tho they were very slow to warm up, they were *so* wonderfully nice, and helpful.
Moral of the story- be patient. Be ballsy. Go up and intro your self to *every one*. Ask them about their shoes, ask them to repeat a move, or tell you how they did it. It's a hit and miss, meeting people, but it's like that in every thing!
Congrats on the lb. loss, too. You are taking a great step in a lifestyle change that will keep you fit and healthy for a long time!
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snoangel
Jan 12, 2006, 6:48 PM
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I'm certainly not hardcore, but I may come off as snobbish in the gym. I usually have a workout in mind and my time is limited so I don't tend to socialize much, plus I can definitely be shy around people I don't know. However, I definitely watch others and will make a comment admiring something they've done or ask for their beta on something I may be stuck on. The girls that are climbing studs at my gym are quite approachable too. :D
Get me on the snow though, and I do become a snob. Everyone knows there are no friends on powder days and many a friend I have ditched. Also, my time in the mountains is extremely limited and I value every day. I have a core group that I ride with and we go hard all day long. When I head up there with friends who are not as skilled as my crew, I let them know the situation, but will try to spend some time with them at the end of the day when my legs are already trashed. And yes, I remember the days when I was just a newbie and it was "either keep up or your on your own". I guess I've just adopted that credo too. :wink:
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4togo
Jan 12, 2006, 7:30 PM
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I tend to focus a lot on what I'm doing, especially if it's something hard [for]. So no, I probably won't notice the nice person bouldering V0 in the corner, but if she says something to me, I'll be nice and help out however I can... as long as she's not looking for an hour-long lesson!
I have been on both the giving and the receiving ends of "How did you do that" or "I'm struggling with this, can you give me a tip?", to/from both men and women, and it is a great way to start. I've always received help or been glad to give it when the approach is made this way.
With that said, I do try to be encouraging to beginning women who seem to be struggling -- OR who are kicking butt -- because women in general seem to be more easily discouraged at the very beginning of the climbing learning curve due to lack of brute strength.
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lhwang
Jan 13, 2006, 3:27 AM
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In reply to: Tip: most of the time, people that come off as 'snobbish' are really just shy.
True! I'm very quiet and unfortunately I know that a lot of times I come off as aloof. I don't go to the climbing gym to socialize though. And outside here in the Rockies, I sometimes feel like the rock quality breeds antisocialness... a sort of "stay away, I don't want you knocking rocks down on me, one party per route" mentality. I was pretty amazed when I went to Red River Gorge at how friendly and chatty everyone is.
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sg81hani
Jan 14, 2006, 1:24 PM
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I find climbers- newbies or experienced ones- will take a while to freshen up with others. I know i was... shy at first but after that realise that it's always gd to say hi to newcomers. u might never know u can make gd contacts...esp those with ropes or runners to lend u during trips..haha
then again sometimes people might mistake me for being snobbish or a show-off...just cos i climb so often (hardcore branded nevertheless)...i'll just brush it off and come up with some conversation like what they work as and what makes them climb... it's easier to talk about things they are comfortable with.
Hani
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alexis_86
Jan 14, 2006, 6:02 PM
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In reply to: I'm so hardk0re that I sleep on a portaledge all the time. I have it hanging above my bed. I'm just way too hardk0re for that mattress. I'm so hardk0re that all of the biners on my keychain are REAL! I'm so hardk0re that I eat Clif bars for lunch EVERY DAY. I wear prAna clothes to work, and I don't shower for days (because I want to feel like I'm in the backcountry all the time, man, even though I live in the 'burbs and I've never been farther than an hour's travel from a town/rescue service). If you cut me, I bleed VitaminWater. That's how hardk0re I am.
Hee, that was so funny, kimmyt. It reads like a song though. And it's true, that 'snobbish' people are usually shy. In any where, I usually strike people as being snobbish because I'm always the one brooding in the corner, not saying very much, but I'm just really petrified to death of people, which is why I don't approach them unless they approach me. And some of the people I've put down as 'snobbish' have turned out to be awesome people who are real easy to talk to and hang out with. I'm not very hardcore, I like to climb and ride my bike, weaving insanely through rush hour traffic and trying to compete with SUVs and buses (usually, I lose). That's about as hardcore as I get. Oh well, maybe there are the days when I'm inspired to train for the triathlon I plan to enter this year, but those days are few and far between.
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nola_angie
Jan 14, 2006, 6:53 PM
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[quote="alexis_86"]In reply to: I'm not very hardcore, I like to climb and ride my bike, weaving insanely through rush hour traffic and trying to compete with SUVs and buses (usually, I lose). That's about as hardcore as I get. .
OMG- biking like that is SO FUN!!! I named my bike Patton, after the WWII general because riding a bike through the French Quarter or down Canal St. is like WAR!!! The feeling of passing a sports car, stuck in traffic...*sigh* it's a beautiful thing. I've only been hit once, and it was a minor one at that. The worse was when I got run off the road,(guy took a hard right as I was comming up on his side- no turn signal, no warning...he just jerked his wheel!) and onto a crowded sidewalk....I didn't hit anyone, but the bike slid out from under me because I had to veer to hard to avoid the gaggles of tourists. Wound up with a NASTY bruise from that!
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clausti
Jan 14, 2006, 10:23 PM
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as far as it seeming like they avoid you or something... consider this...
if its somebody that's been climbing for 6 years and you just started, there's likely to be a non-negligible gap in skill level, right?
we're gonna have a hypothetical chick whose been climbing for 6 years. we'll call her "She." all grades are made up to make a point.
say you're in the gym and have warmed up and all and are working on your latest boulder project, a v(x). She warms up on v(x) but doesnt wanna look like an ass, walking up and warming up on what you're repeatedly falling off of, when there are plenty of other v(x)'s She can warm up on before She tries her v(x+3) project. so maybe you feel like Shes avoiding you, but Shes just doing her thing, whatever.
say you happen to walk in right when She finishes one of her standard v(x+2) problems. She drops down and you're like OMG that was so awesome, you're really great! you genuinly just want to express appreciation for skill, but she is embarrassed, becuase she doesnt think that problem was all that great, or her execution of it all that awesome. She mumbles, thanks, dude. and walks away. you think shes being stuck up or too good to talk to you, but really, shes just kinda shy.
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happiegrrrl
Jan 15, 2006, 4:28 AM
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When I first started climbing, and it was almost exclusively at the gym, I was really, really self-conscious. I had read, obsessed and all that stuff you mentioned, so I had an "idea" what a decent climber was supposed to be doing. And though I could pull off amazing technique in my mind.....on the walls, I wasn't so great. And, being so self-aware, whenever my foot skated, or I barn-doored or flailed, I felt like everybody else was also aware of it(Guess what, they really aren't even paying attention).
Once I started to understand some of the concepts with balance, I was STILL too self-conscious to try to put them to use, and it was torture, going to the gym during that time. I rememebr one time, I was traversing, and getting into the movement, and a guy jumped on the wall headed my way. I had been feeling really good about my work and thought that he would be aware of my circuit and get off when he got too close. But no....it was going to be a game of chicken.
I was so upset that I almost started crying(Now I can't believe I was that frightened.). I actually left the gym because I was so overwhelmed! Which, of course didn't help any....
Now, if I go to the gym, I pretty much only do traversing. I like the meditation of it, and I like trying different sidepulls, balance alignment changes and such. I don't get that when I am on a gym route, following tape.... (Oh, I do not use the gyms suggested traverse routes either. I think a lot of setters really go for stuff that is a little extreme, and I am NOT going to tweak my tendons on some macho fool's idea of a microcrimp.)
I am not worried one bit about who else is doing what. Pretty much I am there for myself and to socialize with the friends I do know and don't see anywhere else.
I think that as you progress, you will become more comfortable too. If you are feeling self-conscious, it is very easy to imagine that people are watching and judging. Just remember - if they are....they're jerks!
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wonderwoman
Jan 15, 2006, 7:44 PM
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I am kind of shy myself. But I find that when I go out of my way to say hello to other women or start up conversation about climbing, they have always been really nice. Some women don't make eye contact with me, but I usually assume they must be shy, too. I think sometimes we perceive people as snobby when they could be thinking the same about us.
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rvega
Jan 15, 2006, 8:22 PM
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I think this thread is a bit odd. Seems we are equating hardcoreness and stand-off-ishness as the same thing.
When I think of hardcore, I think of...
Women who will climb the same route over and over and over again until they get it. Or women who don't mind all the skin on their ankles and wrists being shredded on climbs. Or women who'll get up at 3am, drive for five hours to the crag, and be the last ones to leave. Or women who will climb all day regardless if its 20 degrees or a 120 out. Or women who will high ball boulder and not cry at the top.
With this sort of thoughts in mind I definitely do not qualify as hardcore, although I will drive all night to climb.
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happiegrrrl
Jan 16, 2006, 12:14 AM
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Well.....I think that even though the original poster started out her thread with asking how "hardcore" we are, the gist of the issue for her lay in the following paragraph, where she wrote:
In reply to: I think that it's almost more intimidating dealing with the hard core chicks than it is with "that guy" at the gym. At least "that guy" is patient and explains stuff, even if he's only trying to impress me! The girls seem more impatient with those of us who are softer, so to speak.
The OP says she is new to climbing. I think that many of us felt intimidated when we first began, especially in a rock gym, since the vibe can sometimes seem to have a bit of posturing going on. I will certainly admit to feeling a little defensive when some woman comes in with a little "sporty yet sexy" outfit, and is flirty and fairly obviously there for the attention of the boys...... Funny though, it "seemed" that happened a lot more when i first started going..... How much of it was just in my own head?
I think it is fair to guess that the person is really more interested in getting insight into this feeling of cliquishness she is sensing than to actually know if we consider ourselves to be harwomen!
But just in case.....I consider myself a "hardwoman in training." That's a HIT, for an acronym - like it?
"Hard Core" is relative, anyway. A person who does backcountry approaches to scout unclimbed lines is probably going to consider leading the "Red" route in a gym to be pretty tame, whereas a person who enjoys the indoor rock wall exclusively might consider herslef hard when she can lead any "Red" route on sight.....
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iamthewallress
Jan 16, 2006, 8:52 AM
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In reply to: When I think of hardcore, I think of... Women who will climb the same route over and over and over again until they get it. Or women who don't mind all the skin on their ankles and wrists being shredded on climbs. Or women who'll get up at 3am, drive for five hours to the crag, and be the last ones to leave. Or women who will climb all day regardless if its 20 degrees or a 120 out. Or women who will high ball boulder and not cry at the top.
Heeellllll yeah!
But I don't think the crying matters if you're standing on top just the same. :wink:
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marionk
Jan 16, 2006, 6:21 PM
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BTW, I love your name "iamthewallress". That's awesome.
Reading in here, I see a lot of women who are categorizing themselves as climbers, athletes, tomboys, to the point where they're not even able to interact on a social or casual level with other women. I see them making fun of "pretty" girls, as though being concerned with your appearance is a form of weakness. So yes, to some degree, being "hard core", or defining yourself as such, is equating with stand-offishness to people like me.
Maybe it is a question of defining oneself to the exclusion of other things. I am a woman, wife, mom, student, employee, craft junkie, bookworm and occasionally athlete. But no one facet defines me to such a degree that I start excluding the other aspects of my self.
I don't know, I thought somehow that women would be more accepting of each other, especially considering that this isn't really a *competitive* sport, where helping someone else can = hurting yourself.
I'll get over it. :wink: I'm learning a lot just reading here, so I think I'll talk less and read more for a while. :) I appreciate everyone's input, though.
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happiegrrrl
Jan 16, 2006, 6:32 PM
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Orrrrrrrrrrrrrr....maybe I was wrong, with my assumptions posted!
For what it's worth, I have never, ever been snubbed, had eyes rolled at me, or been put down with some sort of remark by ANY other woman I have ever come across climbing. Now Thorne, on the other hand - that man is as katty as a heman can be, when it come to my posts here on rc.com......
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acacongua
Jan 17, 2006, 6:54 PM
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Every time I think I'm burly, I find that someone else has exceeded my success so I go back to feeling humble.
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iamthewallress
Jan 17, 2006, 9:26 PM
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In reply to: Every time I think I'm burly, I find that someone else has exceeded my success so I go back to feeling humble.
You can be both!
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lewisiarediviva
Jan 18, 2006, 4:24 AM
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In reply to: BTW, Reading in here, I see a lot of women who are categorizing themselves as climbers, athletes, tomboys, to the point where they're not even able to interact on a social or casual level with other women.
Yea. How many of "us" can truly say that when we see a women out at the craig, we just start up a nice conversation about the rock in front of us and we get along just fine, right off the bat. . .
I'd like to think I could, but I can't even bump into an old female co-worker and know what to say. I am socially inept.
And I think this issue does correlate with being hardcore- because "normal" female conversations do not include what we are at our roots. We may even be a measly 5.9 climber and we know that this is not hardcore- but every girl we run across typically thinks we are hard core or insane.
By the way, I'm so hard core I climb obsidian walls.
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booger
Jan 18, 2006, 3:04 PM
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In reply to: Reading in here, I see a lot of women who are categorizing themselves as climbers, athletes, tomboys, to the point where they're not even able to interact on a social or casual level with other women. I see them making fun of "pretty" girls, as though being concerned with your appearance is a form of weakness. So yes, to some degree, being "hard core", or defining yourself as such, is equating with stand-offishness to people like me.
Hi Marion,
Since I think you're at least partially referring to my other post regarding "prettaay girls" here, I'll comment. I used the "prettaay" mis-spelling to distinguish my post from criticizing pretty girls. I meant to connotate prettiness as an egotism/fetish in the women I was discussing, as opposed to a fact. I truly and honestly did not mean make fun of anybody who is concerned with their appearance; we are all concerned with our appearances in one way or another, obviously. For a lot of us, clothes and our appearance are our representation of our inner selves to the world... some more than others (because we all find different ways to express those inner selves), like anything else! I didn't realize until the replies that my post came off as being snobby... it was a rant :oops: sorry!
Regarding hardcore-ed-ness... my girlfriends have all told me that I look intimidating at first (big shoulders, lots of tattoos, talk- a lot- of bullshit), but that after 5 minutes or so they realized I'm just a big dork. Um... yeah. BIG dork. :D
Ciao,
Taz
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