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kimmyt
Feb 9, 2006, 4:31 PM
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(note: this is not, in and of itself, about climbing, but I think it may relate so something many of us gals have experienced when dealing with males in a sales setting)
So I decided the other day to make the plunge. In my ever-growing list of expensive hobbies, I've decided to dabble with roadbiking. Mostly I just want to do a century this upcoming warm season, and I enjoy riding my bike (a crappy old department story type that I got for free from a friend). So I've decided to upgrade to a real, honest-to-god road cycle.
Which meant I had to go shopping.
Now, when I'm in a situation where I'm in control, like when I'm shopping for rock climbing gear, and I know what I'm talking about, I feel in control. It doesn't matter if the salesperson is mean, if they are unhelpful or unknowledgeable. I know what I want, and I can get it, with their help or not.
When it comes to things that I don't know so much about, however.... it's a bit more difficult. It's like buying a car. You go in, deal with the (mostly) male salespeople, find yourself wondering if you're getting screwed, etc.
This is why I hated buying my car.
And my cellphone, if any of you may remember a post I made a long while ago regarding a blatently rude salesperson who insisted on telling my male FRIEND, who just happened to be at the store with me, all about what type of cell phone I would want. Much to my friends, and my, amusement (as well as anger, I will admit).
Anyway, I know we've all experienced it. The male-dominated gear shop filled with arrogant salesmen who have been avid climbers/bikers/etc for such a long time that they can remember when girls didn't take part in THEIR sport. They're demeaning, talking down to you, trying to get you to buy things you don't need, because maybe you just don't know. Or if you do know, and just happen to have a male accompanying you, they talk to this male, whether they be your boyfriend/husband/friend, etc.
That, perhaps, is the most frustrating. So many times I've gone to a store with a guy and I'm the one buying, and I make it clear, I'm the one asking the questions, but the salesperson will look and speak to the guy with me.
I went into my LBS expecting that type of treatment. After all, the name of the shop was Guy's (I know, named after a person no doubt, but foreboding nonetheless) and I'd never seen a female working there. I went in to look at bikes, with my boyfriend who has a road bike.
Now, the one thing that's great about my boyfriend is that if I want a bike, he'll let me shop for that bike. He won't walk in and be all, "She wants this". While I'm not totally stubborn in that I may ask his opinion, trusting that he knows [a] more than me.
To my shock, and utter delight, I managed to find a young male working at the store who not only was extremely helpful and nice, but who NOT ONCE directed his questions and answers at my boyfriend who was standing near me the entire time. I mean, he barely looked at him. It was amazing. I felt like I was being treated as an equal, by a male salesperson. This was something I had rarely ever felt before, and it made me realize it at that time. My euphoria at being treated so normal made me realize how many other times I maybe hadn't been treated like that.
So long story short I set up some test rides and came back in the middle of this week. I was helped by a nice, but very reticent, young man, and in the middle of him helping me, suddenly a manager swooped down and started helping me instead. Instant bad vibes. The manager was nice, yes, but he was so.... salesman-like. In not a good way. In the way I was discussing earlier. I felt that he felt I was an 'easy target'. Or maybe I was just being sensitive. I just didn't appreciate, no matter how true it was, him telling me which bike I would end up picking of the ones I would test-ride. I know I would probably pick that one, as it was a better model on sale for less, but I still wanted the option of trying the other models to see if they felt different/better. I was staunch. I'm trying two more models on a later date, and hopefully the first salesman will be there. If not, however, I'll make do and come home with a good bike regardless.
I just thought I would share the experience(s) with some of you that may have had similar ones in the past.
K.
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granite_grrl
Feb 9, 2006, 5:05 PM
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I love bike shopping, I would say its my favorite type of shopping. I head to the shops, tell the sales person what I'm going to use it for, get their opinions, go to another shop, repeat. After visiting a few store I head onto the internet to get some reviews, narrow it down. There's also some test riding in there and general admiring of bikes I could never afford.
During my bike shopping time I'm totally gear obsessed, I just pour over the stuff on the internet. I love looking at bikes, but I usually need the motivation of bike shopping (for myself or for my friends) to really get into it.
A couple of suggestions: Make them change out anything that you don't like at the store before you buy the bike. I needed a much shorter stem for my road bike and had them swich it out for no extra charge. I should have done that with my mountain bike too, but I was rushed at the store.
Try a couple of women specific frames, lots of women swear by them (a little too short for me though).
Spend the money on a good saddle, don't go too soft, and look either for cutouts, indents or dual density to take pressure off sensitive bits. Thy the saddles out, hard seats your ass will get used to, but you probably won't get used to it if it pokes you in the wrong places.
Try to buy the extras you'll need when you get the bike, stores normally give a discount on smaller items when buying a bike.
Finally, if tune ups are included in the package make sure they have good mechanics. If you think that you won't be taking the bike back to them ask them to take some money off the price. I've done that with my two bikes, and both times they knocked $100 off or so (was only going to live in the area for 4 months).
And let us in on what bike you're looking at! I could use someone to live vicariously though with bike shopping :lol:
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wjca
Feb 9, 2006, 6:14 PM
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I always like to hear stories of women having the "hey, not all men are assholes" revelation.
When you go back, specifically ask for (i.e. demand) the guy that helped you that you liked. If he is not working that day, find out when he will be at work and go back then. Particularly if they get a commission for selling a bike, you want the guy that was actually helpful in selling you the bike to get paid.
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caughtinside
Feb 9, 2006, 6:40 PM
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One of the reasons I like road biking so much is because I've managed to avoid getting interested/sucked in to the gear involved.
I bought a bike. It's pretty sweet. I ride a lot (not alot, haha). I avoid online bike forums.
Pick the bike that feels good. If you want more advice, I'll tell you what to get. :P :)
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kimmyt
Feb 9, 2006, 6:50 PM
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Unfortunately, the guy I liked working with only works 2 days/week since it's the off season. However, the next day I'm in will be a Saturday, and I first ran into him on a Saturday so we'll see.
Granite_grrl, lucky for me (and the reason I'm using this LBS in particular) is that they have a super good reputation. They are one of the few around here that do an in-depth fitting on each and every bike they sell, and it is part of their usual service to change parts out so that the buyer gets the best fit. I'm not going to be doing much of the shopping around thing, mostly because I want to buy my bike from this place because I know and trust their service and, well, I have $450 in gift certificates to the shop (thanks friends/family!).
Anyway, onto the bike talk: ( :lol: )
I am really interested in the Cannondale R500. I won't be doing any racing so I don't see a need to get the really high end components, but I also would prefer something above the common entry level. In almost every sport where I have chosen an entry-level piece of gear for less money, I have wished I'd gone with just a step higher. The r500 is a 2005 model, it's got a nicer frame than any of the others (made in PA, too!) and is on sale for $850 from $1000. A nicer bike, component-wise then I'll get for a bike that sells for $850 regular retail price, I think.
I also test rode a Felt F80 (?) but it was a 50 cm frame and I found that it was just way too big for me, they didn't have it in a 48 to try.
The next time I go back I'm going to try the R500 in a 48 (I only tried it in a 50, but I tried an R700 in a 48, no wonder I loved it, it was several hundred more expensive and had shiny metal components) and they found a Specialized Vita in a 48cm for me to try. The Specialized Vita is like the Dolce but has those silly-looking triathlon bars on the handles, which I might just trade out for regular curved handle bars and essentially get a Dolce for $300 less than an actual Dolce. :) This one is a female specific, which I had really wanted to try because I have a very short torso.
Any input on the choices, please let me know! Theres lots more that I can try, but I'm looking at the 2005 models that are 20% off right now. (I figure, more bang for my buck!)
K.
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taino
Feb 9, 2006, 7:11 PM
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Nothing wrong with the Cannondale frames; the R500 is a good entry-level bike. The Tiagra components are way heavy, though; if you could bump up to 105 - especially on the wheels, BB, and cranks - the bike would be MUCH lighter. Seriously, the difference in performance and weight is very big between Tiagra and 105. 105, though, is as high as you would want to go; the different between 105 and Ultegra is - literally - polish, and Dura Ace is too expensive for anyone that hasn't donated an egg or a kidney.
I would also advise getting a triple crank, instead of a double. People might sneer at you, but you'll be able to climb MUCH easier.
Other frames might include Giant, as they have a sloped toptube on their smaller frames that might allow a better fit.
T
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caughtinside
Feb 9, 2006, 7:27 PM
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I've got a Felt. I think it's the F70, but I can't remember.
It's got 105 components, which are pretty nice, carbon fork, decent wheels. Everyone I talked to said to get 105 at least.
I rode a friend's bike who has Ultegra, and that thing shifted like butter. I thought my 105 was smooth!
But, I don't race either, so the 105 is cool. I just get all dressed up in my little suit and rally around. Yee haw!
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kimmyt
Feb 9, 2006, 8:42 PM
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Part of me thinks I'm only getting into road biking so that I have an excuse to look at men in spandex.
:twisted:
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caughtinside
Feb 9, 2006, 9:33 PM
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Sweet! Personally, I look like an idiotic baboon in my little suit. You know, got that nice goofy padded ass. You want to stare at that? Hah! Be my guest!
Although my roommate doesn't bike, and I suspect that he might actually be uncomfortable when I'm in the house before and after rides. hahaha!!!!111
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crackboy
Feb 9, 2006, 10:04 PM
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i have the trek 1000 or whatever the low end bike is. when i was shopping i was torn between that and one of the giant OCR bikes, i can't remember which one, but i liked the compact frame of the giant.
don't be afraid to go up to a bigger size frame. i didn't liek the trek, in my size, but felt more comfortable when i went up a frame size.
i agree, if you can try and switch things out at the store. i got them to throw on some clipless pedals and a different saddle when i bought mine.
if you can get nicer parts do it, it will make riding much more enjoyable.
if you are going to upgrade anythign i would suggest the wheels. they seemed to get the most bang for the buck.
i upgraded mine to mavic open pro with ultegra hubs and i added somethin like 10mph to my top downhill speed. (with full backpack etc)
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clausti
Feb 9, 2006, 11:11 PM
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omg do i hate bikes, bike shops, bike mechanics, girls who can talk to the boys about bikes and are hanging out with the bike mechanic at the bike shop,
BUT MOSTLY i hate how stupid i feel when i try and hang out with a bunch of cat II racers who have worked in bike shops their whole fucking lives.
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outdoorsie
Feb 9, 2006, 11:11 PM
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Hooray for bike shopping! Good luck with your own purchase, I wanted to add my own little recent story.
I've been complaining about my mtn bike for about a year now. It just doesn't shift, especially when it's cold. I lube it left and right and it doesn't help. I've taken it to 3 different shops, they always have it fixed when I leave but it goes right back to not shifting two weeks later.
So, I recently not a nasty flat tire. I mean, giant metal spike sticking out the back tire. I had to push the stupid thing home over a mile. I was angry. I made the mistake of going to the bike store the next day to get a new goo-tube and new tires.
Unfortunately, they had a sale. Yep, I think everybody knows what happend next. I got the sweetest deal on a brand new Specialized. I *love* my new bike! My husband was rather surprised. I leave Sunday morning to go get a tube and new tires and I come home three hours later with a new bike!
I actually had an awesome girl sales-person sell the bike to me. She knew exactly what I wanted. And while we were waiting for adjustments (putting goo-tubes on the new bike) I found out she recently started dating a rockclimber guy. So with me a relative noob mountain biker and her a relative noob rockclimber, it was a really fun conversation!
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kimmyt
Feb 10, 2006, 1:54 PM
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In reply to: I actually had an awesome girl sales-person sell the bike to me. She knew exactly what I wanted. And while we were waiting for adjustments (putting goo-tubes on the new bike) I found out she recently started dating a rockclimber guy. So with me a relative noob mountain biker and her a relative noob rockclimber, it was a really fun conversation!
Sounds like you might have found yourself a potential new chicky-partner! And if you become good enough friends, maybe someone to get you discounts at the bike shop! Muahaha!
K.
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cracklover
Feb 10, 2006, 5:05 PM
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Oh, and by the way, Kimmy, I've also seen it go the other way, where, say, a couple will get a climbing lesson, and the male instructor will almost completely ignore the guy (who thinks he already knows everything anyway), giving the girl most of the attention.
GO
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tradchick
Feb 10, 2006, 6:11 PM
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I started riding a road bike 4 years ago and started out on a Cannondale 800 with 105 and a triple. It's really hilly where I live and I used the "granny" ring that first year until I got in really good riding shape.
After riding for 2 years, I decided to race and upgraded to a top end all carbon Giant with a compact frame, dura ace components and mavic wheels. Total kick ass bike that climbs anything. Giants are great bikes, even the entry level ones, and I think the compact frames are the way to go. You can fine tune the fit with the length of the stem for the handlebars. Comparatively you get more for your money with a Giant than most of the other bikes.
My advice is to make sure you get a women's specific seat. It makes all the difference between enjoying the ride or not. Also riding with a club will greatly improve your fitness level and handling skills, plus there's usually way more guys riding....great scenery.
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alexis_86
Feb 16, 2006, 4:50 AM
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Registered: Jul 4, 2005
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I've never really had a bad time at bike shops, the shop I go to is one of those really old bike shops run by an old man and his siblings and I usually just go there, talk to him and he'll suggest the best ideas for my bike, telling me what is complete crap and what would work. Great guy, really. I just wish there were more girls to ride with, say what you like but riding with guys exclusively gets old at times.
I second the suggestions about a women specific saddle, stem and probably frame as well. A shorter stem can be useful if you find that you're overreaching while riding, my old bike has too long a stem and it gave me a horrid pinched feeling on my shoulder for weeks. And a women specific saddle would be so much more comfy. And don't be afraid to splash out more money for something better than entry level, you won't regret it, really, the ride will be so much sweeter. Have fun riding.
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ledavis23
Feb 22, 2006, 8:46 PM
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Anyone out there ever ridden one of the newer models from the Specialized Allez line?
If so, what did you think of its performance?
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