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kav321
Jan 30, 2007, 5:39 AM
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uasunflower
Jan 30, 2007, 12:42 PM
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yes - started by myself, was nicely taken up by the Mass climbers' thread members while in the US and found more partners at the crags as time went by. Had to redo the whole thing since i moved to belgium, found partners again on the net and in the gyms.
IMHO, as long as you are motivated and willing to learn and just safe enough not to scare people away, there usually is a way to find a climbing partner/mentor either starting in the gym, outside or on the net. Just keep at it...
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happiegrrrl
Jan 30, 2007, 12:52 PM
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I used to think it was hard to make friends, but I have come to realize that it was really me. Plenty of people liked me and made efforst to be my friend, but I didn't reciprocate.
Long story threr.....but if you can identify with the feeling of "There is a book with instructions on how to be in this world, and I didn't get it," then we would have something in common.
It's still difficult for me to keep up my end in friendships. I just drop the ball. All the time. The difference is, now I know that's what I'm doing.
If this sounds like you, I can post further on the subject.
But as for climbing - I was exactly like you. Started on my own, with no frineds to take me out. I used the Partners databas here and on a local climbing site. It is absolutely true that being female will get you a partner for the day most times.
Some women get upset because, once it's clear that it's not either a hook up for the night or a that you're "Miss Right"(depending on the miondset of the guy). But.....I always found that people got over the initial "disappointment" very quickly, and because I was a good partner, we always had a good day out climbing. That is, after all, what was supposed to happen!
Most of the guys knew better than to make stupid attempts at bedding me at the belays. A few didn't know better, of course. One needs to be able to set boundaries if this is the way you go. I was good at setting boundaries.
Often these were guys with a lot more experience than me. This is a GOOD thing. Climbing is dangerous, and n00bs are stupid. It's nice to learn in a safe environment, rather than by playing Russian Roulette. So - it goes to follow - I suggest vetting theose potential partners who are just all too happy with taking you out.... Find out what an experineced partner looks like. Do not climb with people who don't have it. No matter HOW much you want to get out there.
It might seem like "oh, it will be all right...." But the truth becomes evident real quick out there, and.....they have those "climbing is dangerous" signs all over the place for a reason.
Learn how to be a good partner. What that entails. Do your portion of the work. Learn what's needed and then do it before having to be told. Be pleasant company. Be considerate. But remember that it's 50-50. Of course, the truth is it will be 90-10 or worse, because you don't have full resposnibility at the start. But work towards getting to that 50-50 split. While you are still in the "less than 50" category, do NOT try to make up for the deficet in innapropriate ways(allowing yourself to be used - for sex, for emotional crutch, for abuse, for belays to a hangdogging lily-livered hangdooger!
Soon enough, you'll find your way.
Go get it!
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clee03m
Jan 30, 2007, 5:47 PM
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I think making friends and finding a climbing partner are two different issues.
May be you should be thankful for the close few because I find that the close few will stay with you for decades to come whereas the groups disappear as you move on with different stages of life. I hear your pain, though. I think all of us in some ways feel lonely at times.
As far as climbing partners, you can go about in all different ways. You can climb at the gym (if you are alone, you can always traverse or boulder) and talk to people. As they get to know you, they will ask you to join them outside. I found partners on line. I know it may be dangerous, but if you meet up somewhere not totally secluded, it's probably pretty safe (provided that they know what they are doing). I also tagged along with a climbing group (I live in Cleveland and I tagged along with a group from DC). I know what it's like to be totally frustrated finding a climbing partner. Keep at it, and you'll find partners, eventually.
Good luck.
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sherrilewis
Jan 30, 2007, 7:03 PM
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Happiegrrrl has many good points in her post! Especially acknowledging the importance of BEING a good partner in one's quest of FINDING a good partner.
Climbing is the only sport I do which requires that I interact with another human being, and that, for me, and for a probably for lot of people, was the real hurdle. I don't invest in friendships lightly--I'm an all or nothing type, you could say-- so finding a climbing partner was a condundrum because I didn't want to put myself out there even on a basic a personal level.
So, I started taking classes. I could get the instruction and experience without the dynamics of a partner search.
Then, when I was ready to take the plunge into climbing outside of the class setting, I was able to offer something in terms of being a solid partner, and I also had a better idea of what I was looking for in one.
I was lucky enough to find one online, and it was a perfect fit(for both of us, I think.) The cool thing is, not only have we become regular climbing partners, we've become great friends. Also, she often introduces me to other climbers so that I am gradually expanding my personal and climbing circles.
My "advice" then would be this:
Be proactive in your thinking, be specific about what you want, and be open to the possibilities.
Good luck!
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sherrilewis
Jan 30, 2007, 7:17 PM
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This description of the "Perfect Partner" is classic(from Cascade Climbers website, posted there by "Jens"). If you want to find one, you've got know how to be one, right?
"Agrees to your route and style
shows up on time
shows up already have eaten and gotten coffee and brought some for you.
Drives
Shows up with a full tank of gas
Shows up having taken a shower and brushed teeth
has an up to date trail park pass
Got more sleep than you
Has a massive collection of CD's for the car
Is a good listener
Speeds at least 20mph over the speed limit all the way to the climbing area
Doesn't need to make any stops after picking you up
Made 2 photocopies of the topos and laminated them at Kinko's
Agrees to use his or her rope (which is brand new)
Agrees to your rack
NEVER suggests carrying hexes or heavy biners
Carries the rope
Carries more weight then you
goes first in the brush
Brings a digital camera
Agrees to your organization and size of rack
Climbs alpine style
Postholes most of the way for you
Has a photographic memory and a great sense of direction
Hands you a piece of chocolate or cheese at a belay
brings a thermos of coffee on ice trips
Doesn't disagree when you decide to pass all the other
parties
doesn't have flatulence
Doesn't trundle anything on you
Climbs fast
Solos the easier terrain with a pack and boots on
Never short ropes you on a clip
gives you soft catches when you fall
If it is a new rock route, does all the scrubbing, buys the hangers and lets you have the first redpoint attempt.
Likes to sign summit registers
Agrees to downclimb as much as can be imagined
Hikes out fast
doesn't need to stop to treat the water before you drink it
Mysteriously has an extra bar for you on the way out
Agrees to a beer at the local bar afterwards and listens to your chestbeating
Tells you a climbing story or some cascade folklore that makes you laugh your ass off!
Picks up the beer tab
Has a well stocked cooler in the car
Lets you sleep all the way home as he or she drives
Drives at least 20mph over the speed limit all the way home
If it is a new line, does all the writing and documentation
Agrees to your next adventure the next weekend and repeats all of the above and shows up with that polypro shirt that you left in his or her car. Hands it to you washed.
-------------
I wish that I could aspire to do half of the above "
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marinaaxid25
Feb 1, 2007, 2:18 AM
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I guess I don't have a particular group of climbers I roll with, simply because I live the city life. But I love pursuing other interests, and thus, I have friends from different types of groups--the artists, glam gals, academics, the partiers, and, of course, rock climbers 
For me, it's been easy. I just put on a smile, and respond. Good social skills is a big forte of mine.
I guess my 2 cents is once you make friends with a few climbers, you're set for future connections in the long run.
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sherrilewis
Feb 2, 2007, 3:39 AM
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Or a climbing "Sugar Daddy" perhaps?
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clee03m
Feb 2, 2007, 11:43 AM
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Wow. Here all I want is someone who doesn't bail out all the time or kill me.
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petje
Feb 2, 2007, 12:52 PM
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sherrilewis wrote: This description of the "Perfect Partner" is classic(from Cascade Climbers website, posted there by "Jens"). If you want to find one, you've got know how to be one, right? "Agrees to your route and style shows up on time shows up already have eaten and gotten coffee and brought some for you. Drives Shows up with a full tank of gas Shows up having taken a shower and brushed teeth has an up to date trail park pass Got more sleep than you Has a massive collection of CD's for the car Is a good listener Speeds at least 20mph over the speed limit all the way to the climbing area Doesn't need to make any stops after picking you up Made 2 photocopies of the topos and laminated them at Kinko's Agrees to use his or her rope (which is brand new) Agrees to your rack NEVER suggests carrying hexes or heavy biners Carries the rope Carries more weight then you goes first in the brush Brings a digital camera Agrees to your organization and size of rack Climbs alpine style Postholes most of the way for you Has a photographic memory and a great sense of direction Hands you a piece of chocolate or cheese at a belay brings a thermos of coffee on ice trips Doesn't disagree when you decide to pass all the other parties doesn't have flatulence Doesn't trundle anything on you Climbs fast Solos the easier terrain with a pack and boots on Never short ropes you on a clip gives you soft catches when you fall If it is a new rock route, does all the scrubbing, buys the hangers and lets you have the first redpoint attempt. Likes to sign summit registers Agrees to downclimb as much as can be imagined Hikes out fast doesn't need to stop to treat the water before you drink it Mysteriously has an extra bar for you on the way out Agrees to a beer at the local bar afterwards and listens to your chestbeating Tells you a climbing story or some cascade folklore that makes you laugh your ass off! Picks up the beer tab Has a well stocked cooler in the car Lets you sleep all the way home as he or she drives Drives at least 20mph over the speed limit all the way home If it is a new line, does all the writing and documentation Agrees to your next adventure the next weekend and repeats all of the above and shows up with that polypro shirt that you left in his or her car. Hands it to you washed. ------------- I wish that I could aspire to do half of the above "
hey that's me! (except for the flatulency)
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happiegrrrl
Feb 2, 2007, 3:30 PM
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I know that list is a joke, but when I started climbing, I would read serious and quasi-serious suggestions of doing things like buying beer and dinners for your partners.
I never liked that idea - mainly because I didn't drink beer and didn't like the idea of hanging out with someone who needed a six-pack to rope up with me.
But also - many of the people who took me out were in much better financial situations than me. The thought that "payment in a cash facsimile" should be made seemed pretty strange to me.
Luckily, I found that most people really didn't expect me to get them drunk afterward(as a woman, I suggest watching out for those who do, especially if you like to drink yourself, and have foundyourself regretting events that transpired under the influence after the fact). And nobody expected to be dined either.
But there IS always - always - "something" that is being comoditized. Sometimes, it is simply your ability to hold a rope; more often it's your ability to be trusted as a partner. Sometimes it IS the allure of your body and fantasies stoked at the thought of "possibilities....
It's good to know what is being traded for the belay. And to know what is acceptable, for you. Climbing is awesome, and in the beginning, I traded more of myself than I would now, for an opportunity to get out there. Promises of wilderness FA's, road tripping and adventure are pretty alluring.
....riiiiight.....Just remember - If it sounds too good to be true; it probably is.
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sherrilewis
Feb 2, 2007, 4:42 PM
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Of course, the point of the list is that the "Perfect Partner" is an impossible, or unlikely, ideal, but the general concept of it can motivate one to be the best partner they can be.
My partner and I have fun with the list, often adding our own criteria as the circumstances of different trips and climbs dictate.
Showing up at my partner's door with a chai latte in the morning almost always earns me "Perfect Partner" status for the day.
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bizarrodrinker
Feb 2, 2007, 6:32 PM
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Personally, if I ever did something like buy beers for my partners or dinner, its because I felt like being nice, not because I am trying to be someone's ideal partner. Friends are allowed to do nice things for each other without caring about reciprocity. Its one of the perks of having friends.
I seldom expect things to work out evenly, because that is not how life works.
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kimmyt
Feb 2, 2007, 6:55 PM
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Being nice and showing appreciation and thanks for someone doesn't necessarily translate into bribing them.
And a pint at the end of a day is a nice celebration of the day, imo, though if someone doesn't drink the celebration can as needed take other forms.
Being a good partner is not about doing things for someone, it's about being someone for someone.
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slablizard
Feb 2, 2007, 8:06 PM
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A perfect partner is:
Motivated as I am
Supportive
a bit competitive
open minded
as strong as me
lets me drive.
doesn't freak out if I smoke.
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caughtinside
Feb 2, 2007, 9:25 PM
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Come on happi!
Drinking a beer with someone is about FRIENDSHIP! Not bribery! buying someone that beer is a small gesture of appreciation.
I like buying my partner a beer, just to bond, or relive a good memory. I've definitely ponied up for beers if they did something great for them, like an early lead, or led the crux. And I love it when I sit down and there's already a beer for me sitting there.
if you don't drink, that's cool. there's other ways to do it.
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sherrilewis
Feb 2, 2007, 10:39 PM
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The original poster seemed to be concerned about what it takes to make a connection with new people--whether finding climbing partners was similar to the challenges one faces in making new friends. Correctly or not, I interpreted it as "if you find it hard to make new friends will you necessarily find it equally difficult to get out there and meet new climbing partners?"
It's an interesting question: do the two require the same interpersonal skills?
To an extent, maybe, but in the long run I don't think so. You can climb with someone you wouldn't want to be friends with.
So, finding partners one actually want to climb with must mean that one's criteria for the two can differ somewhat.
I found the "Perfect Partner" list to be entertaining as well as a little inspiring because in a tongue-in-cheek way it emphasized that a partnership is a dynamic relationship, not a perfunctory one.
Each person brings something different to it, each person gets something different out of it(whether it's a beer, a ride to the crags, a fun day outdoors, a word of encouragement just when you need it). I wouldn't go so far as to define that as bribery, but, true, it is an exchange of sorts.
And that's what makes it a partnership.
"Perfect" is relative to what you and your partner consider to be important to the relationship: fun, friendship, food, beer, whatever.
Cheers!
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happiegrrrl
Feb 3, 2007, 12:23 AM
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You guys seem to have misunderstood my intention......But I guess if it quacks, it must be a duck, so.....
I thought I had written clearly, but apparently not was that what I resisted(and still would, if it came up) is the sort of "hazing" type of attitude - n00b is the packmule, n00b buys the beers, the second is dispensable because they aren't leading..... And I also said that it had been my experience that most of the people I met along the way were not like this.
Jeepers.....
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sherrilewis
Feb 3, 2007, 4:17 AM
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Happie,
You raised valid issues, even if your intent was misunderstood.
It's good to be aware of how much we're willing to give in order to be liked, or belayed.
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strongerthanyesterday
Feb 7, 2007, 10:30 PM
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to the original poster - kudos to you if you live the city and can hang in there even if you're an outdoorsperson.
is there a climbing gym you can hang at? classes you can take? clubs you can join? are you willing to just GO to outdoor climbing areas? by doing the above things, i've met some people whose company i enjoy.
i know it's hard if you're more introverted. you don't have to click with everyone, and not every personality is going to be a good match. be patient, and try to go easy on yourself - the world needs all types of people to make it a better place.
good luck, and take care :)
(This post was edited by strongerthanyesterday on Feb 7, 2007, 10:41 PM)
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kav321
Feb 7, 2007, 10:51 PM
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There is a climbing gym to go to, but I just dont feel as motivated going by myself, especially since I would not know a single soul :)
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kimmyt
Feb 8, 2007, 12:13 AM
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well, there's always the option of finding people online to climb with.
you have to use some common sense in doing so, but it worked for me getting partners
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happiegrrrl
Feb 8, 2007, 10:04 PM
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kav321 wrote: There is a climbing gym to go to, but I just dont feel as motivated going by myself, especially since I would not know a single soul :)
Ii started climbing. I remember how scared I was going to the gym the first time! Like grade school "I'm afraid I won't fit in and they'll laugh at me" scared.....
But I forced myself to do it, and that is one of the steps in how I got where I am today.
If there is a local web site for your town or even the gym might have one - you can post online for someone looking for a partner.
Or, go to the gym, prepared to boulder/traverse, which is a great workout anyway. If you see someone else who is partnerless, as them if they'd like a belay.
Try to see how you can be of service to someone ELSE, instead of focusing on what you want for yourself....The secret key to life, just handed to you there, by the way. Use it often, and you will see amazing things occur.
You're going to just have to bite the bullet on this fear/shyness thing. Force yourself to do these situations you're afraid of. Perhaps whatever usefulness it once had for you is gone. It won't serve you in climbing(unless you want to be a soloist, I suppose).
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sherrilewis
Feb 8, 2007, 10:39 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: You're going to just have to bite the bullet on this fear/shyness thing. Force yourself to do these situations you're afraid of. Perhaps whatever usefulness it once had for you is gone. It won't serve you in climbing(unless you want to be a soloist, I suppose).
Too true, too true.
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