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hugepedro
Oct 30, 2002, 5:49 PM
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Someone has probably already thought of this, but I just thought of a simple idea last night and I think it's pretty cool.
We all know the problem of communication when the leader and second are beyond visual and aural range of each other. Especially, how can the second be sure that they are on belay and safe to begin following? Radios? Sure. Rope tugs? Ok, but if there's a lot of rope drag they aren't very effective and it can be hard to remember the code. My normal partner and I usually don't need to communicate. She knows that once I pull the rope she will be on belay within a matter of seconds. But I don't always climb with her; there are situations where partners are not as familiar with and trusting of each other.
Here's the simple idea.
The second keeps an extra 5-10 feet of the rope with them, perhaps tied off to the anchor. After the leader pulls the rope the second gives it a pull down to see if it is held, then plays out a few feet, sees if it is being taken up, then pulls down again to test. Repeat.
Like I said, this is probably not an original idea, but I thought it was worth sharing. I hadn't given this situation much thought before since I rarely second.
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stevematthys
Oct 30, 2002, 6:43 PM
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yea, me and my partner did something like that for a while, but then we just got some radios.
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climbchick
Oct 30, 2002, 7:03 PM
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Radios are good but there should be some kind of backup plan in case they stop working (happened to me before).
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 30, 2002, 9:14 PM
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leader pulls 4=safe
belayer pulls3=belay off
leader pulls2=belay on
belayer/second pulls1=climbing
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dustinap
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Oct 30, 2002, 9:40 PM
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I sometimes use radios, often on the stuff I've done we can hear eachother. When it comes down to it though when the rope comes tight you've got to start climbing. I learned that in Toulumne earlier this year.
[ This Message was edited by: dustinap on 2002-10-30 13:40 ]
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hugepedro
Oct 30, 2002, 9:49 PM
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Shaky -
I was thinking that regardless of what sort of communication system has been worked out beforehand (and I find that sometimes we don't discuss such a system because we don't anticipate we will need it until we find that we cannot hear each other), this is a way for the second to verify without a doubt that they are on belay.
Agree with what others have said:
The old tug codes don't work well when there is big time rope drag.
And, radios can fail.
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bloodyknuckles
Oct 30, 2002, 11:02 PM
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Been using some Motorolas with 5 mi range forever, never had a prob.
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 30, 2002, 11:47 PM
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When there's drag, you usually can't hear as well, so yeah, it doesn't usually work. Oh Well
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sparky
Oct 31, 2002, 12:20 AM
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yup, radios are super simple
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sonso45
Oct 31, 2002, 12:33 AM
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If I can't hear/see second then I pull the rope taut and get the rope on belay and keep tension til I can hear/see second. I feel it is better and safer to assume your partner is climbing and err on safety's side.
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flamer
Oct 31, 2002, 3:18 AM
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Radio's=more weight, and more stuff to carry/mess with. The less you take=lighter=faster=MORE CLIMBING!
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sparky
Nov 3, 2002, 11:03 PM
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seriously radios a unbelievably heavy and slow me down way more than yelling at my partener for 15 minutes to get him to give me a little slack, and boy do they take up a lot of space on my sling, an entire biner worth of space i could use to carry something else. But on a serious note those damn things weigh about two ounces and I just can't carry that much weight for more than a pitch.
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flamer
Nov 5, 2002, 9:25 PM
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Hey bro, the more you carry the slower you go it's that simple. And it's easy to carry a little more and a little more- it all adds up. Do you still bring the 10 essentials for the 3rd flatiron? If you can't communicate well with out using radios maybe you should rethink climbing long stuff. Do you carry a cell phone into the backcountry, "just in case"? Have you climbed in the backcoutry? See ya' when I pass ya'!
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leaverbiner
Nov 5, 2002, 9:34 PM
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Flamer - if you think a simple radio is going to slow you down, you are absolutely crazy. More than likely you are simply stubborn and won't give in to "those new fangled things" A radio, other than expense, is so simple effective and helpful. My partner and I have tiny 5 mi. range radios, they clip on to anything anywhere and attached to them are voice activated headsets that clip right to your helmet or the collar of your shirt. In total they may weigh the same as a locking biner. I never need to occupy a hand and can have constant communication with my partner. If you are satisfied with your method fine Barney Rubble, but don't put down without some colorable basis newer, more convenient and reliable methods.
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antimatter
Nov 5, 2002, 10:19 PM
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Good God, radios are great, especially when you've climbed nearly all of your 60M over traversing, meandering routes.
Yelling doesn't work when there's a significant amount of wind or obstacles between you and your belayer.
Rope tugs would be nice but they don't work with the rope drag you commonly get on a long pitch.
I wear my radio like a necklace, tucked inside my shirt. I can press on my shirt right where it's located and speak into it. I can also hear it just fine from that location.
I've done it both ways and with any amount of route meandering I can't imagine anyone preferring to go without.
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mtnjohn
Nov 5, 2002, 10:26 PM
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It's easy
When you lead, never pull the haul line (2nd rope)until you are OFF belay.
Never pull your partner's climbing rope until you are ON belay.
If your seconding, when you see the haul line (2nd rope) disappear your leader is off, get ready to move.
Get your pack on (unless it's been hauled) break down your belay to the bare necessities & when your rope comes tight, CLIMB
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flamer
Nov 6, 2002, 12:05 AM
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DUDE! You have a head set! You must look like MADONNA, up there! You people worry to much about this stuff! If you don't know your partner well enough to know when you can start climbing or when they will start, then there is your real problem! Or are you climbing....LIKE A VIRGIN!
Go ahead carry more stuff!
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high
Nov 6, 2002, 7:54 AM
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i've always relied on a rope tug system, and this past summer i got some radios -they both have proven to work great for me..:
rope tug system -the first set of tugs is from the leader, i usually make it 5-6 good tugs to make sure it's distinguished from climbing or rope drag. this lets the second know that the leader has secured himself on an anchor, and is ready to belay. the second sends a set of tugs when he/she's ready to climb. when i'm belaying a second, i tend to keep the belay on a little tighter off the ground to let my partner know they're good to go...
radios -i only got them because they were so small and cheap. 15 bucks for a pair made by uniden, they run on a pair of AAA's. they are super small, and simple -eliminates most arguments for weight and packing...optional clip too.
good topic -gotta be smart!
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leaverbiner
Nov 6, 2002, 1:30 PM
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The headseat piece that I have is a simple loop over the ear with a mic. that extends in front of your mouth. Incredibly convenient, particularly given the fact that it is voice activated. I will keep carringy my incredibly heavy extra gear . . . I'll still be carrying it when I readt the report of your epic/accident that occurred because you and your partner lost communication.
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flamer
Nov 6, 2002, 5:45 PM
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Not going to happen- do you even have anything longer than 2-pitchs in PA? Hardman.
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leaverbiner
Nov 6, 2002, 6:34 PM
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I think shortly before they came out with these new fangled radio things, they invented a large metal (I think now they use really futuristic substances like plastics and alloys) object that flys through the air, they call it an airplane I think . . .
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leaverbiner
Nov 6, 2002, 6:58 PM
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HEY EVERYONE . . . ATTENTION . . . ATTENTION - to know anything about climbing you have to be from Colorado. O.k.? got that? Anyone from a state sharing a border from Colorado can offer advice with a disclaimer, and, Californians are the exception to the rule. If you are from anywhere else, you know nothing, have done, nothing, and will never amount to anything in the climbing world. Just wanted to make sure you all knew this o.k.!?!?!?
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flamer
Nov 6, 2002, 9:26 PM
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I knew that would get him!
Seriously I'm just giving you a hard time bro! No hard feelings just some good old fashioned ribbing! Any time you want to go climbing drop me a line, I'm sure we would have a good time. But I'm not using a radio!
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leaverbiner
Nov 6, 2002, 9:55 PM
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I'll use mine and talk to myself.
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sparky
Nov 7, 2002, 3:07 AM
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Damn straight (not like flamer) If you aren't from Colorado you know nothing about anything.I'm just having a good time with you flamer don't take it personally. See ya when I pass ya! Once again just kidding, but for real only people from colorado know what is going on with anything, right!?!
[ This Message was edited by: sparky on 2002-11-06 19:08 ]
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