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stevematthys
Nov 1, 2002, 12:21 AM
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Just wondering how many of you have ever done this on a route? I have messed around with it on the ground but I have never placed stacked stoppers as pro while on lead. Just does not seem very bomber to me. What do you think?
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stevo
Nov 1, 2002, 12:41 AM
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I had to do this on top of a pinnacle, the pinnacle was narrow enough that I could wrap my legs on either side of it. The first time of I climbed this route there was a bolted anchor. The next time I went up and there weren't any bolts, I didn't bring cams big enough for the crack at the top, so I had to take my two biggest stoppers, stack them and weight them so that they would hold. This was my most sketchy rock anchor, it only held when I weighted it and I had to readjust constantly with my hands. It got worse, the second, whom I never climbed with prior, thought it legit to weight the rope constantly. Every time they did this, my boys went straight to my mouth as I was so scared. I NEVER would do this again, it sucked. Take bigger cams, and skip stacking, an art of the past.
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petsfed
Nov 1, 2002, 12:55 AM
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It only works with straight sided stoppers, and it is, quite frankly, a thing of the past. Get cams, get hexes, get whatever, but there is little reason to have to do such a thing anymore.
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stevematthys
Nov 1, 2002, 2:45 AM
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well, yea i know it was a thing of the past. I just wanted to hear some stories like stevo's. btw stevo, that would be scary, i think i would have sh*t a brick
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curt
Nov 1, 2002, 3:28 AM
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Stacked stoppers are a thing of the past, and so am I. So, I will explain one way to do it correctly--and it is bomber. This may be hard to visualize without a drawing, but I will try to explain how it works.
First, as noted above, you need straight sided stoppers. It is best to use two that are not exactly the same size. You also need the kind that are slung on perlon, (i.e. not wired stoppers). Then, you put two stoppers on the same piece of perlon, with the smaller nut above the larger nut. Both nuts are situated as normal, with the smaller end of the nut towards the bottom--as viewed in a placement.
Here is the cool part. You get great flexibility of placements without having to carry a ton of gear. If you need the smaller nut, slide the larger one down and away from it (towards the carabiner) and place it as a normal nut. If you need the larger nut, place it, and because the smaller nut is on top of it, it will usually not be in the way of a good placement for the larger nut.
When you need a placement larger than either of the nuts, invert the top nut and place it next to the larger nut. When you pull down on the perlon, it will try to pull the large nut down--and the small nut up, against each other. If this is hard to imagine try to remember those things called "slider nuts" with two inclined planes working against each other--it's kind of like that.
The only downside that I found is that it almost always requires both hands to place the stacked nuts. Once placed, though, it is bomber and can take a pull from almost any direction without coming out.
Curt
Edited a couple of times so that it finally says what I meant. If you have any questions about this, just ask.
[ This Message was edited by: curt on 2002-10-31 19:30 ]
[ This Message was edited by: curt on 2002-10-31 19:33 ]
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micahmcguire
Nov 1, 2002, 3:35 AM
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done it many times. Be careful and very accurate with the placement, and be sure to give the anchor a good solid jerk to "set" it. If set properly I trust them as much as any other anchor.
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petsfed
Nov 1, 2002, 5:00 AM
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I've heard of offwidth horror stories at Vedauwoo. Hexes, instead of stoppers, were stacked to bridge the gap. That scares me to even contemplate. I guess it was better than using 4x4's or something. And I do love all of the handwritten notations in my guidebook (it was my father's you understand) about 7" pipes used as protection. Use your imagination on those placements. *Shudders* Now hopefully I can get some sleep on this Halloween night without that haunting my dreams.
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sparky
Nov 3, 2002, 10:51 PM
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word on the street is i saw some stupid stupidd kid playing around with stacked stoppers at eldo then this really cool amigo went to check them out and set them up right, i think you'll understand what i'm talking about there steven.
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stevematthys
Nov 4, 2002, 12:10 AM
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yea, word on the street is that you got shitty memory sparky, because i did set them up right.
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crux_clipper
Nov 4, 2002, 7:34 AM
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Wanna hear something freaky......This guy here in Oz climbed a 50 meter roof, all natural gear! The guidebook that describes this climb has a list of all the gear needed, in order. One of the placements are 2 stacked nuts!:eek: While leading a roof!!??
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mountainmonkey
Nov 4, 2002, 5:25 PM
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I have stacked two hexes at a belay where I had no other gear left to fit that size. Granted it wasn't my only piece (duh!) but it was very solid. I laughed at first and said yea right, but the crack was perfect for it. It was in Lumpy if I remember...
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epic_ed
Nov 5, 2002, 6:01 AM
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I've done it twice. Both on aid climbs when I ran out of other options. There's no way I'd want to try to work this out while leading trad, though. You have to pick the correct two stoppers and then hold them in place until you can give them a good tug to set them. Once set, though, I felt they were very solid placements. Sometimes you gotta get creative...
Ed
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climber_andy
Nov 7, 2002, 3:48 AM
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Unfortunately I can't remember/find the name of the maker, but my local gear store has sets of stoppers for sale that were designed to be stacked, with one side of each stopper having bands that alternate between raised and inset, so that two stoppers can be placed back to back and they slot together. I thought about getting a set to play with, but haven't had a chance to yet.
I say play because I'm not sure on anything hard I'd want to sit there thinking, "well, the #4 and #7 will fit, or the #5 and the..." Also, I have my reservations about whether you'd be able to use them stacked after you fell on one that wasn't stacked, since you could deform the bands. I think it's a cool idea though, even if it may not be entirely practical.
They also cut down on the number of nuts in a set, since you can stack them. I think they went #1-#9 or something like that, with #9 about the size of a #12 or #13 smiley. Yeah, gotta love the smilies!
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