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docburner
Nov 3, 2008, 11:24 PM
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I'm somewhat at a plateau right now and could use some advice to push through. My problem is that I don't really get pumped at least not in the forearms. I just get to a point where I can't make the move anymore. If I rest for ~30 seconds I can probably climb another 20-30 feet. Nothing really specific I can point to its just like a total exhaustion.
This only happens to me on steeper climbing with little to no rests. On vertical I can usually find a spot to rest well enough to continue climbing it.
My workout schedule is twice a week in the gym for 3 hours, probably do 12 routes in that time all on lead, all usually around the onsight to easy project level (something I would get 2nd/3rd go.)
Then 1-2 days on the weekend outside. "Project days" will be 6-7 burns on 2-3 different projects (some easy and some hard), "onsight days" will be 10-12 climbs at my onsight level +/- 2 grades.
So what can I do to improve my climbing or any idea of figuring out what my specific weaknesses are?
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shimanilami
Nov 3, 2008, 11:33 PM
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Read the Self-Coached Climber and Training to Climb.
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kennoyce
Nov 4, 2008, 12:10 AM
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i'd say you should try doing laps on overhanging routes without rests. It sounds like you just have an endurance problem, and doing laps in quick succession should help that out.
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docburner
Nov 4, 2008, 12:55 AM
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All of the books seem to be addressing problems I don't really have. Like in self coached climber with 4x4 or roped laps: "Continue in this manner for 4 to 6 laps. You should feel a strong burning in your forearms" I feel no burning ever.
It sounds like the stamina section might be a better help for me. I'll look into it when I get home as the web doesn't really show the page and I have the book. It does seem to apply specifically to bouldering doing pyramids but as I said I can't read much of it.
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angry
Nov 4, 2008, 1:25 AM
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If you don't get pumped, maybe you should try harder routes that would get you pumped.
It sounds like you aren't pushing yourself much.
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docburner
Nov 4, 2008, 1:29 AM
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Actually maybe you can help me, you live close by. Climb with me and tell me what I need to do :)
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docburner
Nov 4, 2008, 1:33 AM
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You also addressed problem 2 I have. There are two categories of routes for me, ones I can do and ones I can't do. The ones I can't do, I can't do off the dog, just can't do the move. Outside I can only remember all the moves to so many routes at once, I have 3 projects that I'd like to do just need to be a little stronger, and hoping for a good way in the gym to overcome that.
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borntorocku
Nov 4, 2008, 3:31 AM
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Here is a good read: http://onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.com/...out-specificity.html
It sounds like you have problem with cruxes. You fall because you can't make the moves (not because you are pumped). One method that I have found helpful for improving that aspect of my route climbing is Bouldering with Continuous Intensity Repetitions (CIRs), p 158 SCC. Other people call it Power Hour. Pick one grade, V3, and climb one problem every 3 minutes for 1 hour.
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docburner
Nov 4, 2008, 4:08 AM
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I think its more complex then that, I don't necessarilly fall at the crux. Yes there are climbs where I can't do the crux (especially indoors where our setters can't climb the grades they are setting, outside everything up to a few grades above my redpoint level I can do all the moves off the dog)
It is either I can do the crux or I can't there are very few climbs where it seems like there is something where I can almost do it. If I can almost do it, I work it out and then after that I can do it 99% of the time. If I can't do it I can try 50 times in a row 50 different ways and its not happening.
For example last night I di my normal climbing workout I then did 4 climbs in a row 12c, 11d, 11c, 10d. Rest in between was just untie pull rope and retie so about 1 minute. I fell on all 4 times approximiately at the same spot ~40 feet up. Most of them the cruxes were in the first 10 feet.
So here I run out of endurance.
Next I did 4 climbs all 11c but vertical and onsight all of them no rest other then lowering at all as it was on TR.
Rest of ~5 minutes between the two sets of climbs.
So on the first set I can't complete the climbs but its not really because I'm pumped I just can pull myself up anymore. Second set is fine even though I'm more tired because its vertical and I can get at least most of my weight on my feet.
Also that is exactly how I boulder, I usually just do something like all the v4/v5 in the gym. I don't think its every 3 minutes its more like I come down and don't rest and do the next climb. Probably do 60 or so problems in 1.5-2 hours.
So it just seems like I'm stuck, I think I'm trying the correct things: high intensity bouldering, many back to back climbs on ropes etc. But it feels like I should be able to climb harder because I'm not really pumped but just can't pull myself up to make the next move.
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boracus
Nov 4, 2008, 4:47 PM
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D-
I wish I had the same problem. Seriously though it sounds like you're training could use a little more focus on absolute difficulty/intensity. As in simply finding something that is studpid hard for you and working on it. Bouldering is certainly the most efficient and convenient way to work on maximum strength/recruitment.
It sounds like you've built your anaerobic threshold up to the point that it's approaching your maximum pulling strength so you never really feel "pumped" the way you maybe once did, you simply don't have the goods to pull through the crux.
In terms of strength training focusing on recruitment training would be doing 1-4 reps at 95%+ of your 1 Rep Maximum (the maximum amount of weight you could do one rep w/ for a given exercise/moveent) for 6-8 sets. Thats sort of the cookie cutter book version of where to start. If you're interested in working on increasing your maximum strength via bouldering then you're looking for moves difficult enough that you can maybe only link 3 or four moves together at once and then spending a good 6-8 burns working that problem w/ no real concern for recovery time. In fact you should rest at least 3 mins or more between goes, or if you're lifting same amount of time between sets.
When you're looking to increase the amount of weight you can move or how much of your body weight you can move on bad holds it becomes more of a neurological problem, meaning that you've got to get away from training the anaerobic system and start teaching your neuromuscular system to simply produce more force.
My suggestion would be to do some research into maximum strength/maximum recruitment training and experiment w/ these in your climbing routine. The classic maximum strength training routine for the upper kinetic chain would be campus boarding.
Good luck w/ solving your current plateau,
cheers, BA
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granite_grrl
Nov 4, 2008, 5:43 PM
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Okay, what you are saying doesn't make too much sence. You don't get a pump, but you can't do the move. I would have said that its strength that's failing you, but you seem to be a 5.12 climber that is falling of a 10d????
So, do you ever get pumped? If a pumps never builds you should in theory be able to climb forever on something that doesn't have any cruxy powerful moves....yet you can't. See what I'm having problems with here?
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borntorocku
Nov 4, 2008, 5:58 PM
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This is very interesting. It may have to do with technique. I'm not saying that you have "bad" technique, but maybe it could use refinement. Overhanging routes require different set of skills than vertical routes. Also, your ability to find rests on vertical terrain may mask movement that could be improved.
Are you able to identify back steps and drops knees quickly? How often do you feet cut? What part of your shoe wears out first?
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borntorocku
Nov 4, 2008, 6:34 PM
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I thought more about your post. Here is another take on it.
Read this : http://www.8a.nu/...x%3FArticleId%3D3234
and this : http://www.8a.nu/...x%3FArticleId%3D1288
"Most of them [World Cup climbers] are so programmed in doing static moves that they never switch to dynamic style. Hence, as soon their static power has come to an end they will, sometimes strangely and suddenly, fall."
I have many "strong" friends that have this problem. They will static/lock-off holds for an entire route. When they are trying to redpoint a route they will always fall very high on routes. They lose the ability to make static moves and are unable to switch to dynamic style. For them to become great route climbers, they have to switch their style completely. They frequently generate movement from their upper body (as opposed to generating movement from their lower body/hips).
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docburner
Nov 4, 2008, 7:02 PM
Post #16 of 18
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Yes that is my problem, at some point I just run out of energy and can't go up anymore. Only time I get pumped is if I warm up on something close to my redpoint limit and that goes away pretty fast. I am sitting on the holds and can't generate any upward momentum to hit the next hold.
Borntorocku, that sounds like exactly what I'm having, I just fall off at some point. And I'm horrible with dynamic movement. I'll try to work on that by skipping intermediates etc in my next workouts.
Also thanks for the suggestions BA, I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate that in to my training.
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borntorocku
Nov 4, 2008, 7:55 PM
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Sweet! I'm glad I could help.
I think dynamic in this context means moving quickly, not deadpoints and dynos. One training idea would be pick a route that is relatively hard but doable. Do one lap for time. Rest. Repeat the route but try to do it faster (whlle being efficient). Repeat. A little bit of speed climbing would help you flow better.
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Myxomatosis
Nov 4, 2008, 9:21 PM
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Try down climbing steep route in lead 
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