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blatherskite
Dec 26, 2002, 9:36 PM
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Out of curiosity, how obnoxious and hateful does a single user have to be to the other members of this site as well as the administration before s/he is banned/removed?
Lox/Headcrak is clearly on a mission to devalue this site as a helpful and informative resource for climbers, yet nothing is being done about it.
So, how far does someone have cross the line and p*ss on everyone here before the Admins are allowed to stand up and do something about it?
[ This Message was edited by: blatherskite on 2002-12-26 13:38 ]
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blatherskite
Dec 26, 2002, 9:49 PM
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LoL .. well, luckily for me, I dont have an ego at stake.
I'm just sick and tired of watching fellow climbers be torn down by personalities like headcrak/lox.
It's completely ridiculous and something needs to be done.
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hangdoggypound
Dec 26, 2002, 9:51 PM
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I'd think banning someone would be a tough issue. Potentially, someone can just hop on their computer and set up a new account with different information. Plus, who draws that line?
Unless, some web-guru knows how to keep a certain individual's computer from participating in all the fun here at rockclimbingdotcom....? I'm just a website maintenance peasant. Logistically, I don't know if it is possible to kick someone off without them being able to return.
There are too many positive things here at rockclimbingdotcom that I think supercede any single effort to devalue this site -- and other fantastic users.
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blatherskite
Dec 26, 2002, 9:55 PM
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While I wont deny that "the drawing of the line" can be a touchy issue, I firmly believe that there are definite cases where, regardless of how ambiguous that line may be, users are trouncing it.
This should be obvious by the fact that the more enthusiastic and contributing (read: helpful) members of this site are dropping like flies. They are sick and tired of being treated like crap, and I, for one, belive that the Admins should have the authority to ban users who continuously refuse to post in accordance with the guidelines set forth when you join the site.
Banning by IP would be a start, though I'm not sure what the solution would be for users with a dynamic IP.
PS: Sorry if I seem overly pessimistic, but I'm completely fed up with sorting through his flaming posts of hatred and spam on almost every thread I read. I may not be a high profile user, but I'm tired of it nonetheless.
[ This Message was edited by: blatherskite on 2002-12-26 14:06 ]
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bobtheboulderer
Dec 26, 2002, 9:59 PM
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He is a self-righteous, pompous, egomaniac but he won't get run out of town until he posts a joke about terrorists. One of the most valuable contributors to this site recently left because of the self-righteous hypocrisy on this site.
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blatherskite
Dec 26, 2002, 10:01 PM
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Bob, I concur, and the admins seem completely apathetic about him. This is what concerns me the most.
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jerrygarcia
Dec 26, 2002, 10:12 PM
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I have to say, the majority of the forums/community I have been and am now involved in moderate a bit stronger. The majority of these people crying/moaning and trying to cause problems would be gone and the second someone figured out their new identiy, that would be deleted also.
Its better to ban a nuisance than to scare off 10 users that contribute daily.
--Just my 2 cents on the issue--
If you dont believe me, take a look at what happens to a news group(no public one is moderated)alt.caving
[ This Message was edited by: jerrygarcia on 2002-12-26 14:16 ]
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bobtheboulderer
Dec 26, 2002, 10:14 PM
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They're intimidated by him. They got more bent out of shape at a silly joke than they do at this moron who just roams around being obnoxious to everybody.
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blatherskite
Dec 26, 2002, 10:24 PM
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jerry,
Forgive the question, but I'm not able to access newgroups at present to see your example.
However, it seems that you are supporting the idea of stronger moderation across the board around here, to edit out the rude, obnoxious, uninformative (spamming) posts.
Am I reading this correctly, or are you saying that you feel the current level of moderation on rc.com is sufficient?
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lox
Dec 26, 2002, 10:33 PM
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Oh STOP.
I feel the LOVE !!!111
As far as my use here is concerned... I simply have an abrasive personality. I am egotistical, loud and slightly risque at all times. I will flash your project in my flipflops and you better not leave your girlfriend alone with me... especially if she's hot.
But I make a concientious effort to not break the rules of the site. If you'll notice, I very rarely am directly insulting to the person who says something stupid. I generally like to point out, in a creative way, how completely a$$ backwards their post is.
This is the only way to resolve the ATC/GriGri issue.
I refrain from swearing in the General forum, I rarely reply to the Community forum. I keep to the boldering forum and this forum.
And I don't hate anyone. I just think it's silly to maintain this hold hands kum-ba-ya mentality that is NOT climbing. You can't make me LIKE everyone who climbs, but that doesn't mean my VIEWPOINT is invalid.
You guys crack me up.
You are complaining cuz I am a little harsh and the bigot decided his racist views weren't welcome in a public forum.
Hey ! Welcome to reality !
FREE YOUR HEEL, SKI FOR REAL !!!!111
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hangdoggypound
Dec 26, 2002, 10:34 PM
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blatherskite, just as much, I believe that some of Lox's recent troubles here [small](seen his lastest complaints in Suggestions & Questions?)[/small] actually deal with "over moderation" or ill use of mod-power....which is subjective, really.
I think it's better for the community to react neutrally - or whatever - to his poor choice of i-ettiquette in order to encourage him to either play nice or go elsewhere. I haven't had any problems with moderators myself...or Lox but I would really dislike having too much interference. I'd be certain that moderators or admins [small](forgive me, I don't know the diff.)[/small] would rather not deal with baby sitting the users.
Lest we all R-U-N-N-O-F-T...
[small]Edit for clarity[/small]
[ This Message was edited by: hangdoggypound on 2002-12-26 14:38 ]
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lox
Dec 26, 2002, 10:38 PM
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Actually, they ratehr prefer moving topics, deleting topics, locking topics and censoring words.
They enjoy babysitting y'all.
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blatherskite
Dec 26, 2002, 10:49 PM
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hangdoggy,
While I understand that Lox regularly complains of being over-moderated, I consider it to be more of a publicity stunt than a legitimate concern.
The fact is, his posts get moved and deleted in accordance with the guidelines, and I firmly believe that they should continue to aggressively moderate personalities such as his, lest we have an overly negative community.
Better yet, just ban people who are obviously here to harass and belittle people.
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hangdoggypound
Dec 26, 2002, 10:54 PM
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I totally hear you and understand your point, but I also think that this is not a school yard. For the most part, we are adults (er...sort of...we climb stuff)and should be able to solve problems.
Lox has made nearly 1000 posts since October 1st [small](CRIPES! that's alot of sitting on the computer)[/small] and not all are mean-dickheadish posts. I got a good chuckle out of the GriGri/ATC thing and several others...and he has contributed like a regular non-Texan-mortal in the bouldering forum.
[small]edit for poor typing[/small]
[ This Message was edited by: hangdoggypound on 2002-12-26 14:55 ]
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krustyklimber
Dec 26, 2002, 11:24 PM
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Hey new guys,
This is a subject which has been beaten to DEATH!!!
Lox is not the evil menace you guys make him out to be... if you drop your animosities towards him for just a second, he makes sense as often as he is abrasive.
Lox is an Admin on another site and knows how this stuff (moderating or not) works. Granted we don't do things the same way they do, but that doesn't take away from his experience. Would you rather he talk about things he doesn't have experience with?
And if you guys think Lox (love the capitol L, PLEASE teach me Lox!) is bad you shoulda known DOOSH... one of his former personas...
I woulda kicked that guys ass! Lox is a pussycat (yes, I intended that Lox ) in comparison.
I know he can get on a roll about the way things are run here... but allow him the space to and he has a lot of other good info to share... his knowledge of Tex style boldering alone is invaluable.
It is very easy to become obbsessed with the Admins of this site... I was... and nearly got myself banned too!
Just like the neighborhood bully (not saying you are one Lox) some people are given a wider bearth then others... you new guys (or old ones who just can't let it go) need to do the same for Lox (or anyone else you don't see eye to eye with). Just ignore him, if you don't like what he has to say, don't like it!
I don't like how you guys are throwing around banning, like you have any say in it.
This site is a private enterprise... and the guys with the gold have made the rules... they (being the guys with the gold) can also change the rules or make up new ones as they go... That's how it is, bottom line.
So for all of you, Lox included, who don't like the way things are being run... TOO DAMN BAD!
There is nothing here on this site that forces your PC to connect with the site... you make the choice... be happy with the choice you've made or make a different one! It's that simple.
I hope you all decide to stay, and like I told Doosh many times, and find a home here where you can fit in as a productive member of this community... if not we don't need you...
Jeff
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tradpuppy
Dec 27, 2002, 12:12 AM
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Lox/doosh/headcrack for president!
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tim
Dec 27, 2002, 12:26 AM
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With regards to B), there are some pretty nasty things one can implement to encourage smarty-pants users to mend their ways.
If there is enough justification, one can make it nearly impossible to 'asymmetrically' view the site (eg. adaptive blocking of any routable IP and any HTTP client that sends malformed ACCEPT headers, correlated against a directory of undesirables, without a directly observable cause-and-effect trigger). So far, there hasn't been the need for that sort of a crackdown, though I have toyed with writing the code to support this, just for fun (it isn't *that* hard).
It would be preferable for social pressures to accomplish this, since most people eventually learn whether they're welcome. There is a very small handful of users here with ulterior motives, but so far, they have been more-or-less well behaved. If that were to change, we could make things much more difficult for users trying option B).
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jerrygarcia
Dec 27, 2002, 12:37 AM
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Blatherskite, this line says it all.
Quote: JerryGarcia said:
Its better to ban a nuisance than to scare off 10 users that contribute daily.
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lox
Dec 27, 2002, 12:46 AM
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You do your namesake a grave disservice, spreading hatred in his name.
Censor$#!&.
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jules
Dec 27, 2002, 12:49 AM
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Is it better to ban a nuisance who contributes daily than scare off ten users who will do nothing but start myraid threads about what the best is?
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pushfurther
Dec 27, 2002, 1:03 AM
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Quote:there are some pretty nasty things one can implement to encourage smarty-pants users to mend their ways.
yeah, ask rrradam.
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tradpuppy
Dec 27, 2002, 1:10 AM
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Why don't ya'll go add some routes/areas and pics to the database, then come back and bitch about banning.
"...and I firmly believe that they should continue to aggressively moderate personalities such as his, lest we have an overly negative community."
Heil! Heil!
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xanx
Dec 27, 2002, 1:30 AM
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lol i had an experienc with a weird person i didn't like - fleadawg just annoyed me because he was caustic and purposly wrote in the most ghetto style possible just to act tough (or tuff as he would say). anyway here is what i learned: if u see someone u don't like, NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO READ THEIR POST!! just skip over it and stop complaining! be your own censor! as someone else said, we are all either adults or climbers (either way) so we should be mature enough to know what is crap and what is good advice; we don't need someone to lead us through the proverbial woods anymore.
simma downnow y'ere!
l8er
mike
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tim
Dec 27, 2002, 2:29 AM
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Quote:
yeah, ask rrradam.
Actually, that misfeature is being fixed right now. I don't like anyone having the ability to violate a user's privacy, anymore than I like for users to be able to continuously abuse the system.
As far as adaptive nastiness goes, we're always looking for beta testers, if you'd like to sign up. I'll happily hand you the free anonymizer time that apparently accrued when I paid my EFF dues this year.
I have to ask -- why, precisely, do you (pushfurther) bother frequenting the site if you're so unhappy with it? It's not like you're suggesting ways in which you'd like it to change; you just periodically inject venomous non-sequiturs into the forums.
(edit: removed mild ad-hominem)
[ This Message was edited by: tim on 2002-12-27 08:48 ]
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pyrohalfronium-hozer
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Dec 27, 2002, 2:36 AM
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All you need to get your account banned is a swear (spelt wrong mind you) in your user name.
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