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punk
Mar 10, 2003, 8:57 PM
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Climbing ice in the NE can become a zoo sometimes. However, I have a some questions
[*:52b1713c3b] To the best of your knowledge and experience, is that OK to start leading when the first party already on first belay (b/c the leader of the first party SLOWER then hell)???
[*:52b1713c3b] the leader of the first party start to get touchy and swear something along the line “I cant f’ing believe that u climb under me…what u cant wait till I get to the top” dose he have any right to complaint or is he overstress being under the gun?
[*:52b1713c3b] should one immediately discard a climber as unexperienced just from the fact that the climber never was on the climb before???
Thanx for your opinion
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tim
Mar 10, 2003, 9:16 PM
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dude, your post makes almost no sense. you seriously need a copy editor.
I have difficulty believing that all the ice in the northeast is that crowded. Do a longer approach sometime and sidestep all this roadside-crag bullshit.
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drkodos
Mar 10, 2003, 9:22 PM
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Why would one climb under another party if it wasn't mandatory?
Then again, some people enjoy being pelted with ice missiles I guess.....
:roll:
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overlord
Mar 10, 2003, 9:25 PM
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i wouldnt climb beneath another party... what about loose rock falling onto your head, not to mention dropped gear.
CLIMB ON
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elvislegs
Mar 10, 2003, 9:38 PM
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On ice, I probably wouldn't but I think it's pretty case specific.
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bakedjake
Mar 10, 2003, 9:47 PM
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Decrypting your post was a challenge. If he was a novice climber that situation could put a lot of stress on him.
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tradguy
Mar 10, 2003, 9:49 PM
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Not only is it somewhat bad etiquette, but it's really stupid. I think the other guy got it right with his own comment...
In reply to: I cant f’ing believe that u climb under me…what u cant wait till I get to the top”
Wait until their done, or choose a different route... for your own safety, and their sanity.
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yeti
Mar 10, 2003, 10:12 PM
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IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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punk
Mar 11, 2003, 1:21 AM
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His ice route wasn’t directly above mine so the falling ice didn’t came my way
But the leader was extremely slow and I was about to do a different route up but it is sharing the same belay which I did went above his, I set a belay 12’ above his but he still was yapping even though I took a whole different line
BTW his belayer was very cool with that and told me that he is kind of jumpy leader
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bandycoot
Mar 11, 2003, 1:57 AM
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I had a friend who was a beginner climber on multipitch. We were doing to parties and moving decently. Some guy climbs up past her belay, blocking her and making her VERY nervous on every pitch. They even tried to lead before her leader was done from the same belay ledge. I was first, so when I found this out on the top of the mountain I cussed that piece of S*** out. It's not cool. Be patient, don't be an ass. There is no where for him to file a complaint, but if you keep it up you might get your ass kicked. If it was me and you did that too me twice, I would be waiting for you to kick your ass while you built your belay....
Josh
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michael crowder
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Mar 11, 2003, 2:28 PM
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be patient unless the route is wide enough to keep adequate spacing. never ice climb under another party. it is a bad habit and will eventually get you hurt. i have had to do alternate routes many times because someone beat me to a climb. the best thing to do is just get up early and be the first one there. no waiting, no issues. i would be nervous if you set up your belay above me. if i was first to the route i would expect you to belay to the side of me or under me. how many pitches was the route? if it was only two pitches i would wait for the leader to take off from the belay before starting. if you don't teach yourself paitence then the mountains eventually will.
michael
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micahmcguire
Mar 11, 2003, 4:45 PM
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I pack a slingshot with some paintballs for people like you, but hey, its an Alaska thing
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talons05
Mar 11, 2003, 4:52 PM
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You should think of it this way: If you are starting while they're still on the climb because the leader is very slow, you'll just end up waiting at all of the belays anyway... It's better and SAFER to find another route, I'm sure there are plenty... As far as etiquette, I think it's a little bit rude to start under someone like that, and noone needs any more pressure while they're climbing...
A.W.
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punk
Mar 11, 2003, 5:05 PM
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How come in Europe it is OK to pass a slower climber but over here everyone gets bent out of shape when its happened
In my climbing I always let other party pass me when they come fast and strong below me as long as they don’t put me and my belayer at risk
As I think of it, it is a matter of ego for the slower climber and that (ego) should be left at the base of the climb
Needless to say that we did a different line that only share the first belay and the belayer was very cool with that
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dingus
Mar 11, 2003, 5:39 PM
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In reply to: How come in Europe it is OK to pass
Cause they all hate each other anyway.
In reply to: a slower climber but over here everyone gets bent out of shape when its happened
Because many of us grew up and learned to climb in areas where it is patently unsafe to climb beneath other parties. We went to bed early. We got up at the crack of dawn (or whatever) in order to be first on the route of our desire. And along comes Johnny Hotdog. He passes our party and drops a 25lb rock on our heads. Yeah, that's what climbing's all about to me!
In Europe, when a German party rudely passes a French party and then "inadvertantly" drops rocks on them, they simply count their good fortune and continue!
In reply to: In my climbing I always let other party pass me when they come fast and strong below me as long as they don’t put me and my belayer at risk
In my climbing, I can count the times I've been passed on one hand. I've done plenty of passing though, the polite kind and the less than polite. The karma of good etiquette and polite and friendly requests cannot be overstated. Communication.
In reply to: As I think of it, it is a matter of ego for the slower climber and that (ego) should be left at the base of the climb
No ego involved with Johnny Hotdog ice climbing under another party. Nope. No ego there at all.
In reply to: Needless to say that we did a different line that only share the first belay and the belayer was very cool with that
Glad it all worked out. Just remember that karma thing when the same thing happens to you one day.
DMT
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alpinist
Mar 12, 2003, 5:49 PM
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To beat a dead horse...choose a different route next time or wait. On ice, climbing under another party is a safety issue. It was good of you to take another line after the first belay but next time I'd say take a different line all together.
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redpoint73
Mar 12, 2003, 6:08 PM
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It is good etiquette to ASK before passing another party. Furthermore, its not a rule, but just common sense that you should wait until the party is OFF the first belay, or time it so the entire party is gone from the belay before your leader gets there. This is not a big deal if the belay ledge is big. But otherwise, you will be cramping a bunch of people into a small space. Its not your right to determine how "fast" or "slow" anoher party is. They will climb at THIER OWN pace, and thats nobody's business but theirs. If you have a problem with it, than get to the climb earlier, or climb another route.
Regardless of whether you were going to do a "different" route, it is still bad etiquette to pass another party and then potentially shower them iwth ice. If the 2 rotues share a beley, then it was likely too close for you to climb at the same time. Again, asking before passing would have been the right thing to do.
As to what they do in Europe, thats cool and all. But you need to follow local customs, rules and etiquette. Just because things are done a certain way in another country/locale, does not mean that you should impose those customs to every place you visit.
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