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dave1970
Dec 19, 2003, 12:45 AM
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Which is the better tool for alpine ice? Opinions welcome
Charlet Moser Axtar or Black Diamond Cobra?
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punk
Dec 19, 2003, 12:51 AM
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both great...if it is not a matter of money go Cobra
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Deleted
Dec 19, 2003, 3:51 AM
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sorry, punk, i'm gonna' have to disagree. for alpine climbing i would suggest something like the charlet moser pulsar.
it has just enough of a bent [b:0bba8e2a3a]handle[/b:0bba8e2a3a] to keep you from bashing yer knuckles, a good swing weight, and is built like a truck. i don't like bent [b:0bba8e2a3a]shaft[/b:0bba8e2a3a] tools for alpine because they're difficult to plunge shaft-first into the snow for approaches/walk-offs, and they're pretty much impossible to use for self-arrest.
you're not gonna' pick up any hot chicks driving the [i:0bba8e2a3a]pulsars[/i:0bba8e2a3a], that's for sure; the design is over ten years old. but it's a proven tool for alpine routes.
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punk
Dec 19, 2003, 4:08 AM
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I guess, it is a hard call in today’s market almost all tools out there are wonderful hell u can pickup a BD shrike for 200 a pair new from BD where was that technology and selection 15 years ago
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Dec 19, 2003, 4:20 AM
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you're correct; it can be a tough call.
by the way, neri ... when did you leave new york for washington? do you like it?
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cryder
Dec 19, 2003, 4:26 AM
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I am holding out for a full on, on the fly convertible leashless system... its kinda like when they put the third door on extended cab trucks, ya just knew what was only a year or so around the corner and... SUPRISE! A fourth door! ( I am glad I waited for that thing... )
So to partially answer your post, Punk is right, selection is huge, most of the big brand tools rule over what was available ten years ago... and they get a little better every year. Test swing 'em though, as your tools will be your life force on any route, better have what works for you... use the force wisely jedi.
Pay attention to what type of rating the actual pick has - Cent B, or Cent T. The BD catalog has a good description of the differences...
- n -
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andypro
Dec 19, 2003, 4:32 AM
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In reply to: I am holding out for a full on, on the fly convertible leashless system... its kinda like when they put the third door on extended cab trucks, ya just knew what was only a year or so around the corner and... SUPRISE! A fourth door! ( I am glad I waited for that thing... )
The trango Madame hook can be converted. It's like the old pulsar multi's. I suppose you could carry both handles in the field and switch as you want. With the normal handle on, its pretty much jsut like a captian hook. with the leashless, it's an ergo handle like the BD and CM ones, etc....
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punk
Dec 19, 2003, 4:34 AM
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Seattle is awesome and I have being climbing like a madman did the move late june and keeping banging my head on the wall for not doing it sooner
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cfnubbler
Dec 19, 2003, 8:09 PM
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In reply to: i don't like bent shaft tools for alpine because .... they're pretty much impossible to use for self-arrest.
Yup, but this is due at least as much to pick design as it is to shaft curve. Modern recurved picks make self arrest hard- they "bite" way too quickly in firm conditions. They're likely to get yanked right out of your hands. It's just not what they're designed for. Pulsars (even the old straight shafted ones, which I still have -anybody want to buy em'?) aren't too much better for self arrest than more modern tools, IMHO.
In reply to: Pay attention to what type of rating the actual pick has - Cent B, or Cent T.
Largely hype in my experience. I climbed for many years with Grivel picks that were CE-B, and never had any problems. Bounced em' off rock, torqued em' in cracks, "encouraged" stubborn wires to stick, etc. No worries.
-Nubbler
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the_pirate
Dec 19, 2003, 8:16 PM
Post #10 of 22
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In reply to: sorry, punk, i'm gonna' have to disagree. for alpine climbing i would suggest something like the charlet moser pulsar. it has just enough of a bent handle to keep you from bashing yer knuckles, a good swing weight, and is built like a truck. i don't like bent shaft tools for alpine because they're difficult to plunge shaft-first into the snow for approaches/walk-offs, and they're pretty much impossible to use for self-arrest. you're not gonna' pick up any hot chicks driving the pulsars, that's for sure; the design is over ten years old. but it's a proven tool for alpine routes.
The true badass climber is swinging straight shaft pulsars. Get yours quick if you can....they are getting tough to come by....
BTW, can anyone recommend a place to order replacement pulsar picks for cheap?
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capn_morgan
Dec 19, 2003, 8:30 PM
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my schools outing club has a couple pair of pulsars....I dont wanna be bad ass enough to use em though. They work, Im just not a huge fan, also dont think they heads are all that comfy. But hey, if you can get em cheap....
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cryder
Dec 19, 2003, 8:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I am holding out for a full on, on the fly convertible leashless system... its kinda like when they put the third door on extended cab trucks, ya just knew what was only a year or so around the corner and... SUPRISE! A fourth door! ( I am glad I waited for that thing... ) The trango Madame hook can be converted. It's like the old pulsar multi's. I suppose you could carry both handles in the field and switch as you want. With the normal handle on, its pretty much jsut like a captian hook. with the leashless, it's an ergo handle like the BD and CM ones, etc....
Yeah, but I am holding out for convertible on the fly... :twisted:
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piton
Dec 19, 2003, 9:02 PM
Post #13 of 22
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Charlet Moser Axtar
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jhump
Dec 19, 2003, 9:17 PM
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Axtar? No such thing, right?
There is the older Axar. I own these and love them. Very damp, secure sticks. Downside is the less than stellar grip on the head for plunging.
The new Charlet is called Aztar. Looks light and sweet for alpine. I would have to swing it to know if I liked it. Those light tools can get rattly on the steeps. It does come with a nice leash, and $175 is a descent price.
I also have no problems self arresting with the Axar and its reverse curve pick. I am used to it. I would rather stop fast. There were times I wished I would stop faster (before I slammed into trees).
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csoles
Dec 19, 2003, 11:08 PM
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Geo, you're plain wrong on the Cobra for alpine...plunges fine, pounds pins fine, s/a as good as any short tool, climbs way better than any other all-around tool I've tried. I only keep a Pulsar to loan and because I have the extendable shaft for expeditions -- keep hoping someone will finally make a good convertible tool.
Cryder, what you want is already made by Camp. The Awax uses a "leash" attached to the glove that hooks to the tool (think Russian aiders for ice tools). Haven't tried them yet but the concept looks good and Camp is finally making decent gear again.
BTW it's CEN (not Cent) and they don't really tell you the difference, just justify the weaker picks on the pricey tools.
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akicebum
Dec 20, 2003, 10:39 AM
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It all depends on what you want to do. But if you are on rockclimbing.com looking for sound advice, then your alpine interests are fairly clear. Obviously your not headed up North to the Moonflower or any other steep route. What most of these guys have said is true, if you are looking at doing relatively lower angle ice and snow then a tool like the Cobra is overkill. I climb with Axars and since I began this tool I have quit using my piolet completely. Find a set of tools that leaves you with enough money to actually use them. I agree that the Pulsar and Shrike are excellent choices. I have climbed grade 5 ice with shrikes, and while they don't clear as well as Cobras, they get the job done. Good luck and be safe.
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deleted
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Dec 21, 2003, 11:13 PM
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[quote:cca032919f="csoles"]Geo, you're plain wrong on the Cobra for alpine...plunges fine, pounds pins fine, s/a as good as any short tool, climbs way better than any other all-around tool I've tried.[/quote:cca032919f]
actually, i didn't mention the cobra [i:cca032919f]specifically[/i:cca032919f]. however, while my personal preference leans away from bent-shafted tools for alpine climbing, this old dog [i:cca032919f]has[/i:cca032919f] been considering a pair for waterfall ice. :wink:
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csoles
Dec 22, 2003, 12:56 AM
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In reply to: this old dog has been considering a pair for waterfall ice. :wink:
Be sure to get a photo when you sit on Santa's lap!
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Dec 22, 2003, 1:38 AM
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hell, i was kinda' hoping you'd have some spares from all the *ahem* [i:75be590fbb]product testing [/i:75be590fbb]you people do! :lol:
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csoles
Dec 22, 2003, 1:56 AM
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Sorry, this Santa only let's cute single women sit on his lap ;-)
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punk
Dec 22, 2003, 2:04 AM
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In reply to: Sorry, this Santa only let's cute single women sit on his lap ;-) |
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Dec 22, 2003, 1:17 PM
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[quote:13542cf36c="csoles"]Sorry, this Santa only let's cute single women sit on his lap ;-)[/quote:13542cf36c]
you know, clyde ... i shave my legs for cycling. if i were to wear a teddy -- and if you were to squint [i:13542cf36c]juuust[/i:13542cf36c] right -- i could pass for a swarthy, eastern-bloc, female shotputter (with a really b*tchin' handlebar mustache). :roll:
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