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hishopper
Mar 13, 2002, 12:09 AM
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My wife and I are avidly seeking to open a gym in our area this summer!. I'de like to open this thread for other new owners or those looking to be: We need insurance & financing info, but mostly from the hip advice from you that have done it or are trying to!
[ This Message was edited by: hishopper on 2002-03-14 05:34 ]
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hishopper
Mar 13, 2002, 12:11 AM
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We recieved an offer to rent part of a huge barn and are looking for specifics on Insurance companies, and what kind of prospectus should be put together for possible investors, etc.
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hishopper
Mar 15, 2002, 5:23 PM
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Here's a copy of a message from pianomahnn (w/ perm.) replying about using seperate rooms for groups and regulars.
Quote:That is something that a local gym has done. The owner, George, has two gyms. One for parties/groups, the other for the normal climbers. It works well, because then the climbers don't have to deal with parties.
Another thing that just came to mind is to create safe new climbers. George decided to kind of not do this. He has anchored grigris for people to belay with; something I'm not a huge fan of. Granted, it's a very safe, easy, efficient way of getting things done, it doesn't teach people anything. Seeing as my gym will be bouldering only, I won't have to deal with ropes, but I would much rather see an hour spent explaining to people how certain belay tools work, safety, etc, instead of 10 minutes on the use of a grigri and a simple figure eight.
Granted, you'll have to employ responsible employees, but if the pay is right that won't be a problem. The gym I used to work at, VE, paid us crap. Considering the very important job we had, it would only make sense to pay higher. Higher pay will yield better employees. I went there for a comp this past weekend, and the people they had working were pathetic compared to what initially worked there. Good employees will make a good gym.
Chris
[ This Message was edited by: hishopper on 2002-03-15 09:25 ]
[ This Message was edited by: hishopper on 2002-03-15 09:26 ]
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pianomahnn
Mar 15, 2002, 5:33 PM
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One thing I've had issues with is how the plywood panels are textured. There are two extremes, no texture (which forces one to use good footing) and insane texture which can allow a climber to never have to use holds for feet.
I enjoy gyms that have little or no texture on their walls for two reasons. One, it forces that footing, and two, it keeps the rubber on my shoes happy!! I don't like my rubber being trashed after only a few climbs indoors. It's not fun!!
The Elorado Wall Company makes a nice wall. I also know many gym construction companies sell their own textures to apply. So if you're planning on building it yourself, you've got that covered. If you're going for a big gym, though, I wouldn't suggest building it yourself. Eldorado or Entre Prises make a nice wall.
Stay away from Nicros built anything. Holds, walls, the whole deal.
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xen_monkey
Mar 16, 2002, 3:40 AM
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Insurance seems to be the hardest thing to find out. I've e-mailed a few companies about the same thing, and called a few insurance people. I just kept getting reffered around with no returned phone calls. There are a few companies out there that specialize in sports and speicalzed insurance.
The other thing is find yourself a good lawyer, prefferably one who specializesin liabilty claims. HE'll probobly think of things you'd never thought you'd have to worry about and most likely charge you more then you ever thought..
Most equipment manufacturers can probobly get you some sweet deals on stuff like holds, harnesses and shoes since you'll be buying in bulk.
Finnally try contacting your local mountain or alpine access commity. Or one in a nearby state, they may have some resources available to you, like professional referals and stuff like that. Tell me how it works out for you. I'd like to open a gym in the next few years.
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apollodorus
Mar 16, 2002, 6:10 AM
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Go for it. Nothing else of value from me.
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hishopper
Mar 16, 2002, 12:47 PM
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Thanks for the info and encouragement! About Nicros, I don't think that company will be around long enough for me to make the mistake of buying from them, based solely on what I've read @ RC.com!
Anyone else around got specifics on insurance?
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pianomahnn
Mar 18, 2002, 8:48 PM
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The sad thing is that it's quite difficult to persuede people into believing that Nicros is the Antichrist.
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hishopper
Apr 4, 2002, 3:59 AM
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Update:
We're meeting with another gym owner this Monday to check out his numbers and how he got started, etc. I will be posting any info I get on insurance, etc here in this thread. Thanx again to everyone for your ideas... they're taken to heart.
Fortuneately the place we have is big enough that we should be able to include a seperate area for groups / parties and real climbers. It's over 5000 sq ft. to start, and there is an adjacent room of the same dimensions that is not be used currently, so if the bills are being paid we could probably get that as well.
After Monday the next step will be to see how much help I can get from friends and people in the area for building the gym itself. After that, a little market research and homework and then it's off to the banks!
(I'm soo excited I just can't contain myself!)
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laplaya
Apr 4, 2002, 5:09 AM
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would someone mind telling this curoius climber why nicros is the antichrist? I bought my rock-rings from them and wouldnt like to think that I supported the devil. also arent they the ones that make the hit strips used on www.trainingforclimbing.com?
What is wrong with Nicros? I am not defending them, just curious.
LaPlaya
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hishopper
Apr 15, 2002, 5:39 AM
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Ok, I met with another gym owner. I don't want to drive this thread off-subject more, but I said I would post the results of my meeting here so I'm going to...
Incredible!!! I'm speachless. Showed up just as he was starting a lesson (to Pianomahn's point above - this guy does 1 hour lessons himself for all first timers!). So I belayed some friends I drug along with me for a while until he had some time. At least three hours he spent with me going over how he started, where he's at, and where he's going. He has the smallest gym in our state, but I bet dollars to donuts he will be the largest before too long. Why? Not because he has billions of dollars in private funding (he actually lived in the gym for the first year living off next to nothing to make it work). Not because there's no competition, or because he's in the best spot. Simply because of who he is.
He not only gave me the beta (stem to stern) on what running a gym is all about - he even shared some business-critical information! He showed me copies of the actual business prospectives he put together for the bank so I would know how one should look. In fact, he offerred to come to the bank with me to prove that this is a viable business!!!
What an incredible reflection on climbing in general. This in contrast to the other 2 really well known gyms in the state, which haven't returned my calls in 2 weeks, and from what I've heard won't even let one of their own employees get the scoop on how to start (an employee wanted to open a gym in another part of the state, not in direct competition to that gym, but he ended up having to go to the same guy I went to!). Go figure.
I also have all the information I could ever want on insurance!! PM me if you are looking for this as well.
Much to his credit, he worked against all odds and through much sacrifice and determination turned a fledgling little gym into a very profitable business, and is still willing to hand over info or help out anyone that walks in his door anyway he can.
OK, I'm ranting - or advertising, or whatever, but I mean really how cool is that?
The next step is market research. I've got almost all the help I need already and I haven't even really been asking.
Anyone know anything about market research? I know (now) what the banks want to see, but I need to know as accurately as possible if I will be able to put food on the table doing this thing.
[ This Message was edited by: hishopper on 2002-04-14 22:44 ]
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pianomahnn
Apr 16, 2002, 3:00 AM
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Quote:
would someone mind telling this curoius climber why nicros is the antichrist? I bought my rock-rings from them and wouldnt like to think that I supported the devil. also arent they the ones that make the hit strips used on www.trainingforclimbing.com?
What is wrong with Nicros? I am not defending them, just curious.
Well, for one, the owners are some of the most evil people I know. Treat their employees like crap, and this is what they get in return.
They don't realize that disgruntled employees can be the single factor in bringing down a company.
Another thing, their holds are crap and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over priced. The quality is jive, and they're not holds produced for climbers, they're holds produced for the weekend adventurer (the never been climbing before person). With Nicros you most certainly do NOT get what you pay for.
There is no real reason for a company as big as Nicros to be charging as much as they do. Seems they don't understand basic assembly line production and as the amount of goods produced increases, the cost to produce decreases. Bad business practices.
The Nicros Warrior Board. If you're ever looked at this you'll notice the board is not centered meaning training on this will produce uneven results from the left and right side of the body. And believe me, the off-ness of the board is VERY obvious. Attention to detail? HAHAHAHA I think not!!
Nicros A.R.T Wall System
EL CRAPOLA!! This was the major component of a gym recently built in the chicagoland area and let me tell this, WASTE OF MONEY. Impossible to clean, and VERY cheap product. It's great when you're climbing cranking on a sit start and the hold crumbles in your hand. Pathetic. But it looks good, which is something else about them...they're not about quality, they're about what looks good. What can bring in the money. Who cares if it sucks, they've already paid!!!! Bad business practice.
I can go on more if you would like.
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crap
Apr 16, 2002, 4:17 AM
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pianomahnn
Everyone uses my name in vain.
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laplaya
Apr 17, 2002, 3:03 AM
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thanks for the info man.
I was right, Nicros is the company that makes the hitstrips...see the following quote from www.trainingforclimbing.com:
"Follow the links below to read a primer on my theory of finger training and the HIT Workout program. You will also learn about my specially designed HIT Strips (manufactured by NICROS, Inc. 1-800-699-1975) which serve as the ideal platform for this new type of training; though, you can also perform HIT workouts on any steep wall equipped with a range of finger-friendly pockets, edges, slopers and pinches. "
this site is done by Eric J. Horst, author of "how to climb 5.12" the info on this site is interesting and I haven't tryed it, but it seems like his theories might work. has anyone tried this setup?
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sirxan
Apr 17, 2002, 3:35 AM
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terrific work you have done so far, eagerly awaiting where this goes. be cool saying I know someone who kicked ass doing his own thing
Frank
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