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sditreubgk
Aug 11, 2004, 12:29 AM
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What are the best nuts?
Wild Country Rocks or Black Diamond Stoppers ??
WC Rocks have a higher breaking strength and seems to have more surface area on the long axis than the stoppers.
Now, I have a half set of DMM Wallnuts(4-8) and want a more "standard-shaped" set.
Which brand do you like the most???
I climb in Quebec, Canada, mostly on granite.
Thanks a lot!!
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lv2climb7
Aug 11, 2004, 12:41 AM
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555
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slobmonster
Aug 11, 2004, 12:48 AM
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Buy whatever you can find cheaper; placed well they're effectively the same.
That said, I've had WC Rocks since I started climbing, the same set for twelve or more years. Since they're made in the same factory as DMM, and share the same overall shape (save the grooves in the middle), you might find that these complement what you have.
But why not just round out your set of Wallnuts?
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dgkula
Aug 11, 2004, 3:08 AM
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You haven't mentioned them, but I'm a fan of Metolius Curve Nuts.
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vegastradguy
Aug 11, 2004, 5:22 AM
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as far as all around general usefulness....bd stoppers (or ABC huevos, same thing) are pretty good. they'll serve most purposes in a basic sense. they're plenty strong...especially if in granite.
i dont have a whole lot of WC experience, so i wont say they're any worse. i dont think WC makes a bad product.
i think Metolius curve nuts have their place, but arent, imho, a general stopper. they're a bit more of a personal preference stopper due to the curved nature. some like 'em, some don't. try 'em, of course, you may like them....but i dont think they're as useful overall.
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pancaketom
Aug 11, 2004, 5:51 AM
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I gotta vote for the WC rocks here. They just seem to fit the placements better for me. That might be because they were my first set, and so I built up an eye for seeing spots they would fit into perfectly though. The taper on the BD nuts seems just a bit too sever so they seem to often just touch on the fat edge.
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petsfed
Aug 11, 2004, 5:53 AM
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In reply to: WC Rocks have a higher breaking strength and seems to have more surface area on the long axis than the stoppers.
Don't worry about breaking strength on nuts. The placement WILL fail first.
I use WC rocks, I have used BD stoppers. Both place equally well. WC has a more square top than BD. Otherwise, not much difference. Get what's cheap.
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cgailey
Aug 11, 2004, 6:11 AM
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In reply to: You haven't mentioned them, but I'm a fan of Metolius Curve Nuts.
I'll second this. The one major benefit of the Curve nuts is that you get three point contact when placing them either on the narrow or wide sides. I have found that BD stoppers will go in more easily than curve nuts in some cases, and vice versa in others. Overall I like the curve nuts best, so that's what's on my rack.
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fredo
Aug 11, 2004, 1:14 PM
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I like the WC rocks. MY preference arose because of $$ the WC Rocks were on sale the BD's were not. I climb with a guy who has a set of BD's and a few rocks here and there. I do not find that there is that great a difference. Sure I have to look at it a little closer but it is no big deal. That said, I doprefer the WC though. BAsically get what is on sale, both are quality products.
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swede
Aug 11, 2004, 2:27 PM
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Expand your wallnuts set!
They stay in the rock better, but are more difficult to clean.
(Thereafter it might be time to look for HB Offsets.)
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sarcat
Aug 11, 2004, 2:50 PM
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In reply to: Expand your wallnuts set!
I just purchased a full set of DMM. I like them so far becasue the curve 'feel' seems to grip certain placements better than the BD ones I've used in the past. I'm a realative n00b on the whole nut game however. Just my .0002 if that.
Have you looked into the Frost nuts? Or is it F.R.O.S.T.? The local store has them. Looked cool but I haven't used them. Anyone else?
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ldsclimber
Aug 11, 2004, 3:59 PM
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I love the stoppers. I've placed a lot of other nuts but the stoppers seem to be the easiest. They're not to big so they can fit in tighter shorter areas. Color differance is a nice way to pic your piece quick also. Having said that I think it's always nice to have two differant sets as the other brand might work better in a differant situation.
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gambler
Aug 14, 2004, 7:16 AM
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Wild Country Rocks are the best IMHO.
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climbinginchico
Aug 16, 2004, 9:08 PM
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I love my BD stoppers. The anodization helps with quick selection, and the sizes are just right for me.
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gottarock
Aug 16, 2004, 9:52 PM
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why not get a set of each? I carry a set of BD's and a set of Omega Pacifics (20 pieces total)... the sizes overlap slightly and they don't weigh or cost very much.
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calangosauro
Aug 20, 2004, 8:24 PM
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BD stopper is the best.
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ottoman
Aug 20, 2004, 9:57 PM
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My brother and I have used the Wild Country Rocks since the early '81....and just recently have gotten a new set of same on sale...bigger wires on those!!............Would also add that most of the stoppers found as booty are DMM and Chouinard's.....Good nutcraft is a art.....place them well and they will keep you off the deck!!....Good Climbing....... :P
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rickvena
Aug 20, 2004, 10:16 PM
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frost nuts!!!!!!
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david.yount
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Aug 20, 2004, 10:39 PM
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Black Diamond Stoppers I prefer.
They are somewhat easier to tell similar sizes apart. The newer anodized Stoppers (also the ABC Huecos which are near exact duplicates at much reduced price) are very easy to tell different sizes (once you get a feel for the color sequence). The WC nuts are harder to tell apart.
The BD's have a greater wedge shape which allows them to be designed shorter in height. I find the BD's are more able to wiggle into pockets because they are shorter. The WC's are taller (with a smaller wedge shape) and their height limits the trick placements I can finesse them into.
The BD's are easier to remove once they have been set firmly. Their greater wedge shape creates less force on the rock, allowing them to be popped free much easier. The WC's were much more stubborn to remove.
The biggest difference between the BD Stopper and the WC Rock is also the biggest reason I learned to trade in my Rocks for Stoppers. BD's have a transverse taper, they are tapered from the back face to the front face. The concave face is wider than the convex face. This brilliant design allows them to fit in slightly flared cracks when you place them sideways. The WC Rocks rectangular cross section, they don't work at all in flared cracks.
When you get to a slightly flared crack you select a much smaller size of BD Stopper, spin it 90-degrees and place it with the concave face facing you.
(The BD #7 is same size as WC #4)
Frost are very similar to WC Rocks.
I don't use the Curve Nuts or similar. I have not yet found need for other than BD Stoppers for mid size and large size nuts. The Curve's provide much less metal in contact with rock, this _may_ decrease their placements. Though they seem to "fit" better in specific placements, the smaller contact area will generate far greater pressure which may result in deformation and failure (but that's not a real significant concern). They are also much harder to remove once set firmly.
For smaller nuts I recommend using different below BD Stopper #6. The smaller sizes BD aren't rated a full 10kN and there exist superior chioces.
Trango Brassies smaller than BD #6 are still rated 10kN, Brassies #5 and #4. These two nuts give you full strength protection for quite small cracks. Though brass is softer than aluminum and brass will deform under lower load than aluminum, if these particular nuts are placed in well constricting cracks there's no way they'll shear to failure. If you but these you will amazed at how often you're placing them because your trusty #6 BD is just too big.
The Brassies #3 and #2 and #1 are all rated 6kN which is considered "strong enough" by most experienced leaders. A nut rated at 6kN in a good placement has proven safe in fall after fall after fall. There are many falls on nuts rated just 6kN and they hold. The Brassie #1 seems to have a smaller taper and is so small overall that a good placement would only occur with maximum contact on both faces and a good constriction in the crack, or it may shear to failure in a fall.
Trango Brassies are always available, at a good price, at Mountain Gear.
Hugh Banner Bronze Offsets are may favorite for micro nuts. The #6 is full strength, and a bit smaller than the BD #6. The HB Offset #5 and #4 are 8kN and the #3 is 6kN and boy that little sucka will fit cracks smaller than the Trango Brassie #1!! One retail website listed the HB Offset #2 at 6kN but I'm skeptical 'cuz the wire is smaller than the #3. Mountain Gear as well as Gear Express has nice pics.
I also find the Black Diamond Swedges #4 (6kN) and #3 (5kN) useful when the Brassies and the Offsets won't work. The Swedges material is harder than aluminum and even harder still than brass, so they won't shear nearly as easily as brass will in those tiny sizes.
Finally, the Lowe Sliding Bull Nut #2 (8kN) gives active protection for cracks equal to the Brassie #4 or Offset #4 (or BD Stopper #4).
HB Offset #5 and #4 I carry doubles, and I used them all last week in Jake the Snake at Squamish (British Columbia) a rarely visited 3-pitch 5.9 with a brilliant undercling feet-smear traverse, above Snake on the Apron.
David Yount.
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euroford
Aug 20, 2004, 11:10 PM
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Registered: Aug 26, 2002
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nice post d.y.
when i first bought up some of the new anodized bd stoppers i kinda thourht the anodizing was cheezy. it just seamed like fluff and made the gear look 'to new'. nothing i hate more than shiny new looking trad gear.
after a couple months of use i learned the color coding and find it very handy. just the other day i discovered another weird benefit. by examning the wear on the anodizing i was able to determine how often i had placed each size. to my surprize i reallized that i don't ever place the three biggest nuts. i'm sure i've seen bomber placements, but i guess i've used cams. so i guess in the furture i can look at it two ways, stop passing up the bomber large sized nut placements, or leave the largest and heaviest sized stopped on the ground becouse i don't use them anyways!
so, though it wasn't at first, i'd say the anodizing is a big point in the favor of BD stoppers.
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