|
|
|
|
curt
May 2, 2008, 3:07 AM
Post #201 of 213
(5129 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
jt512 wrote: curt wrote: jt512 wrote: pijh wrote: In reply to: Who was responsible for brainwashing you into believing that the only valid use of the term "valid" is in logic? When put into the context of arguments... like pull ups help climbing. I think it fits. Also, it goes along with what you posted as your "internet definition" of validity (5) of an ARGUMENT: In reply to: 5. Logic. (of an argument) so constructed that if the premises are jointly asserted, the conclusion cannot be denied without contradiction. Also, In reply to: In statistics, validity is a measure of how close to the truth something is (that's a simplified definition, of course). If the truth is that Training Regimen X is best, and Mr. 5.14's training recommendations are closer to Regimen X than Mr. 5.13's are, then Mr. 5.14's training recommendations (ie, his opinion) are more valid. We can even do a study to estimate the validity of Mr. 5.14's recommendations vs. those of Mr. 5.13. So what you are saying is... when you replaced "important" with "valid" you were referring to the study conducted on your opinion vs his that revealed an r coefficient of 1 for yours and 0 for his? Of course! That would allow you to then say your opinion is more "valid" than his, however, I don't think that was your intent... as it is obvious you have not conducted such a study. So you then scoured the internet looking for a definition of "valid" that would fit with what you said... even if it then made you contradict your previous words. Your opinion (and mine) is still false, statistically invalid, whatever you prefer to call it. I like: untested. Perhaps to end this debate we should collect a sample of the people on rc.com and test the statistical validity of pull ups predicting climbing grade? Or simply test the Granger causality?... I bet it would be significant both ways! Why, when I post to this website, do I still expect not to be surrounded by morons? Jay Well, they do claim that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and still expecting different outcome. Curt That's it then. This site has finally driven me mad. Jay
Just do what I do now--and have a few shots of good scotch before you log on.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 2, 2008, 3:12 AM
Post #202 of 213
(5124 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
curt wrote: jt512 wrote: curt wrote: jt512 wrote: pijh wrote: In reply to: Who was responsible for brainwashing you into believing that the only valid use of the term "valid" is in logic? When put into the context of arguments... like pull ups help climbing. I think it fits. Also, it goes along with what you posted as your "internet definition" of validity (5) of an ARGUMENT: In reply to: 5. Logic. (of an argument) so constructed that if the premises are jointly asserted, the conclusion cannot be denied without contradiction. Also, In reply to: In statistics, validity is a measure of how close to the truth something is (that's a simplified definition, of course). If the truth is that Training Regimen X is best, and Mr. 5.14's training recommendations are closer to Regimen X than Mr. 5.13's are, then Mr. 5.14's training recommendations (ie, his opinion) are more valid. We can even do a study to estimate the validity of Mr. 5.14's recommendations vs. those of Mr. 5.13. So what you are saying is... when you replaced "important" with "valid" you were referring to the study conducted on your opinion vs his that revealed an r coefficient of 1 for yours and 0 for his? Of course! That would allow you to then say your opinion is more "valid" than his, however, I don't think that was your intent... as it is obvious you have not conducted such a study. So you then scoured the internet looking for a definition of "valid" that would fit with what you said... even if it then made you contradict your previous words. Your opinion (and mine) is still false, statistically invalid, whatever you prefer to call it. I like: untested. Perhaps to end this debate we should collect a sample of the people on rc.com and test the statistical validity of pull ups predicting climbing grade? Or simply test the Granger causality?... I bet it would be significant both ways! Why, when I post to this website, do I still expect not to be surrounded by morons? Jay Well, they do claim that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and still expecting different outcome. Curt That's it then. This site has finally driven me mad. Jay Just do what I do now--and have a few shots of good scotch before you log on. Curt
Just returning to check this thread is proof of my being a masochist.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
rasoy
May 2, 2008, 3:22 AM
Post #203 of 213
(5114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 28, 2007
Posts: 242
|
Hahahaha
Pretty funny thread, and seems like you're doing pull-ups in this thread Jay.
You must be a logician? Definitely a good skill to have.
It was interesting reading how you responded to the different arguments.
You're kind of a hard ass though, ha ha ha 
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 2, 2008, 3:27 AM
Post #204 of 213
(5112 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
onceahardman wrote: In reply to: In statistics, validity is a measure of how close to the truth something is (that's a simplified definition, of course). You took stats 501? You think THAT is statistical validity? "Truth" exists in philosophy and religion. "statistics" are numbers calculated on sample data that quantifies a characteristic of tha sample. Statistics may be descriptive (regression, correlation) or inferential.(power, ANOVA, etc.) Stats are not about truth, but about probability. Even at p=.0001, one in ten thousand (on average) will be an outlier.
Statistics (the singlular noun), you buffoon, is concerned with making inferences about the truth from data.
Curt, it doesn't work with wine. Maybe Scotch really is the key.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
heaton504
May 2, 2008, 4:54 AM
Post #205 of 213
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 19, 2008
Posts: 14
|
there are some REALLY REALLY dumb people here. saying that pull ups wont help climbing at all. You are in fact an idiot. Stop climbing, before you fall and kill yourself. What next you are gonna tell people to start doing squats telling them it will help with technique. Im so not joking.
fkin stupid people go back to school. Do get your facts and knowledge straight. Nuff said.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 2, 2008, 4:58 AM
Post #206 of 213
(5085 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
heaton504 wrote: there are some REALLY REALLY dumb people here. saying that pull ups wont help climbing at all. You are in fact an idiot. Stop climbing, before you fall and kill yourself. What next you are gonna tell people to start doing squats telling them it will help with technique. Im so not joking.
But you are so killfiled.
*plonk*
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
heaton504
May 2, 2008, 5:07 AM
Post #207 of 213
(5082 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 19, 2008
Posts: 14
|
Wasn't directed at anyone. Just tired of seeing so many lethargic people posting without even thinking what they are saying, its ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
May 2, 2008, 6:33 AM
Post #208 of 213
(5065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
heaton504 wrote: there are some REALLY REALLY dumb people here. saying that pull ups wont help climbing at all. You are in fact an idiot. Stop climbing, before you fall and kill yourself. What next you are gonna tell people to start doing squats telling them it will help with technique. Im so not joking. fkin stupid people go back to school. Do get your facts and knowledge straight. Nuff said.
Oh my, what a forcefully expressed and yet not quite coherent train of thought.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
rtwilli4
May 2, 2008, 8:09 AM
Post #209 of 213
(5049 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867
|
why don't you guys go fucking climb somewhere?
|
|
|
|
|
rockclimbergabor
May 2, 2008, 8:33 AM
Post #210 of 213
(5044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 18, 2003
Posts: 131
|
wanderlustmd wrote: onceahardman wrote: In reply to: Eventually, you get to a point where you HAVE good technique, but you need more power/endurance/finger strength/core tension etc etc. in order to improve. This is when doing things like pullups will undoubtedly help you improve your climbing. I know not only from experience but from speaking with many elite climers and trainers. I agree completely. It's a bit analogous to a local golf pro giving you hints, to get your handicap down to a 5...Instead of strength training like Tiger Woods does, so you can really get as good as you can. It's a faster route to good climbing to train technique, but you'll never find a 5.15 climber who doesn't strength train. Dave Graham
I love how everyone on this site thinks they know Dave because of the five climbing videos they've seen of him.. its pretty funny..
|
|
|
|
|
onceahardman
May 2, 2008, 9:33 PM
Post #211 of 213
(4983 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2493
|
"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 2, 2008, 11:23 PM
Post #212 of 213
(4951 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
onceahardman wrote: "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy
"People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities." Kruger and Dunning[1]
1. Kruger J, Dunning D. Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 1999, Vol. 77, No. 6. 1121-1134.
|
|
|
|
|
ddt
May 3, 2008, 2:53 PM
Post #213 of 213
(4838 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2005
Posts: 2304
|
I'm locking this thread and I've sent a string of posts to the recycle bin. Various personal attacks were in violation of our Forum Rules.
DDT
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: [jt512] pullups
[
