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doosh
Jun 18, 2002, 3:57 PM
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Yes yes... offwidth crack is hard, specialization is required.
Jeeze.. you guys from Wyoming get so pissed about 2 things: whenever anyone tries to tell you 5.11 is EZ, you always bust out with some obscure offwidth that will "make me piss my pants" or some shit.
Well, fine... I am man enough to admit that I lack the specialization required to commit to hard offwidth.
But, the photo of the 5.11 in question shoes not an offwitdth, but a REGULAR CLIMB. A really long vb with a v2 section. Jugs the entire way.
v11. There is a spray worthy grade.
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campimp
Jun 18, 2002, 5:19 PM
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doosh
Jun 18, 2002, 8:55 PM
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Dude.
#1- Specialization is the term for when you excel at one small aspect of an activity. Since you only get better at something with practice, you would have to specialize in offwitdth to attain such a high rating. You are correct that 5.11 offwidth is nuts.
Since you are from a zone which specializes in offwidth and you made a comment about irregularly sized cracks, I assumed you had climbed the 5.11 you mentioned. Then, you say you wish you could climb 5.11 offwidth. I am confused, but not to the point where my personal code of ethics fails me. Your 5.11 probably requires a rope, which means I will not attempt it until I am at least 35.
#2- The 5.11a/b rrrAdam was braggin about is not an offwidth crack.
He did not lead the 5.11 with a cigarette.
He lead a 5.8 (he had done many times before) with a cigarette to put up a toprope for some people to climb on.
He sprayed about climbing 5.11, which, in this world where 5.14 isn't newsworthy unless it's climbed by a woman or a child, is ridiculous and only makes you look foolish.
#3- Your posts are beginning to lack coherence. Lets see if you are at all intelligible in the next one.
Now go to the barn... I think I hear your girlfriend bleating your name.
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wallhammer
Jun 19, 2002, 4:52 AM
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doosh, i know for fact that you are only a "part time climber" because your a "full time asshole". make you a deal, i won't come and spay about you and the rest of your girlfriends at boulderingdotcom if you grow up and post something useful here.
[ This Message was edited by: wallhammer on 2002-06-18 22:02 ]
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dominic
Jun 19, 2002, 6:42 AM
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Wallhammer:
The level of sophistication on this board astounds me sometimes, but when you try to get away with posting this:
"doosh, i know for fact that you are only a "part time climber" because your a "full time asshole".i won't come and spay about you and the rest of your girlfriends at boulderingdotcom if you grow up and post something useful here."
Uhhh, nice one. rrrAdam, teach your little minions to write. Guess that's to be expected from sportclimbers...
P.S: "boulderingdotcom"?? That's so last year.
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rrrADAM
Jun 19, 2002, 7:48 AM
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Lox...
I complimented you on your post regarding me, as "well thought out", now you are disappointing me. I hope you do not have "selective reading"...
Quote:
The 5.11a/b rrrAdam was braggin about is not an offwidth crack.
He did not lead the 5.11 with a cigarette.
He lead a 5.8 (he had done many times before) with a cigarette to put up a toprope for some people to climb on.
He sprayed about climbing 5.11
I did not brag about climbing an .11a/b, I NEVER brag about anything, as all the users here will attest. I am always quoted here as saying "it's all climbing, brutha", whether it's TRing an .8 at the gym, or leading an .11 sport or a .10 trad, or bouldering V4 (as you can see, I'm no hardman). It's all climbing, brutha.
And I lead, and TR for that matter, while smoking, always... Another thing that many users will attest to, as I have climbed with many here. Not "bragging" here, just something I do, which I also state is "not cool" as smoking is stupid, and I wish I didn't. It hurts me on the approches, ya know.
"Lead a 5.8 I had many times before to set up a TR..." What climb was this ??? If you're refering to the one in Minnesota, sorry never climbed there before.
"He sprayed about..." See first paragragh, as I do not spray.
I am 36 years old, and have only been climbing for 3 years. (Granted, I am blessed with a job that allows me to climb all over the country, and take the Summers and Winters off to climb full time.) I am still simply a climber, like everybody else. I have only one .12 to my credit at Shelf Road, so I have nothing to spray about. It's not about the numbers for me my friend, it's about climbing, and I really don't care what I climb. Because it's all climbing brutha.
Try to get the facts straight, brutha.
And BTW... Crack climbing is "blue collar" climbing, my crack technique is far below that of my face climbing also... It is a different animal. When you finish leading an offwidth, you feel like you just got in a fight.
rrrADAM
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2002-06-19 00:58 ]
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choppie
Jun 19, 2002, 11:56 AM
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What's up with the always smoking while climbing? Are you that addicted that you can't go that long without the nicotine, or do you find it steadies your nerves.
No judgement here, just curious.
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rrrADAM
Jun 19, 2002, 6:56 PM
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I just like to smoke. Keeps me in the zone, and allows me to "not taking myself too seriously"... You know the type, the one's yelling at their belays 'cause their sketched on a dicey lead, so it's the belay's fault that they did not send.
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pushfurther
Jun 19, 2002, 7:09 PM
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rrradam, you don't yell at your belay because she'll make you sleep on the couch.
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toobigtoclimb
Jun 19, 2002, 7:32 PM
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Hey Doosh,
Quit being a douche and go home to your little rocks.
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doosh
Jun 19, 2002, 8:23 PM
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Oh NO!
Is another rockclimbing.com member going to try to SPAY me ???
Look.
First of all, teh 5.8 you lead with a cigarette was in the account of your bumbly expo at the Gunks. The 5.11 was sprayed about on b.com.
Personally, I don't care.
This is the internet. We are climbers. Two things should come from those 2 facts:
#1. As members of the same community, going onto another person's webpage and trolling about copyrighted photos should not happen.
The laws are not in your favor, you aren't going to find a lawyer, and... IF YOU REALLY HAD A PROBLEM WITH IT, TAKE YOUR ISSUE TO SOMEONE WHO HAS CONTROL OF THE BOARD.
Taking your issue to the entire populace is like Russian President Putin coming to America and trying to cajole the ENTIRE POPULATION to reduce the amount of nukes or life trade sanctions or something. Its a stupid waste of time, and if you seriously want those photos taken off, you would go to an admin and have the threads moderated.
If anything, showing members of one board cool photos which are on your site would bring more people here, which is presumably good, seeing how you left registration open and all.
Dude, you own a friggin webpage... you should know this.
(Also, you should upgrade to a newer board, instead of this crappy one, held together by the digital equivalent of duct tape and baling wire... yeah, I talk to 'Sauron.)
#2. Since this is the internet, you have to ability to come in... make your 3 troll posts and then run back to your own domain, where everyone thinks you are so cool.
I hope that is fun for you.
Personally, I think it's v4 fun.
You know what that's like, don't you... you know what you are doing is fun and great, but you also know there are some REALLY COOL things you could be doing, if you were a better climber.
Doesn't a 36 yearold gumby computer geek have anything better to do with his afternoon than troll other messageboards and make a bad name for himself and his domain?
Me, I don't post here (until recently...) because the vibe here isn't ready for me and I don't like it much. You apparently feel the same way about b.com.
The difference between us is, despite my being a few years your junior, I am more mature in the way I deal with whatever demon causes people to troll.
P.S. Stop smoking and start boldering and you will be into the hard .12 range in no time. Continue to host gumby epic fests and remain that weakmo in the corner preaching how the "best climber is the person having the most fun."
Just keep telling yourself that... you might start to believe it.
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ponyryan
Jun 19, 2002, 9:04 PM
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SHUTCHO MOUTH, RRRADAM IS A BAD MUTHA.
I don't dig all the "spray" going on. I don't like someone having a problem with taking a copyrighted pic off of their website (that is the purpose of a copyright, after all). I think everyone just needs to relax and let Rrradam do his work as an owner of this site and protect it's contents. Worthless "spraying" accomplishes nothing, except create more resentment towards members of our own community (climbing community).
No, I don't care if rrradam smokes (especially on a wall). No, I don't care if he climbed a 5.8 to set up a top rope for someone while smoking. No, I don't care that he lead a 5.11, smoking or not. Who cares??? That has nothing to do with the fact that a posted picture belongs to the person who posted it or the site that they posted it to.
I do believe there are set precident cases involving copyright infringment on the internet. Someone should be able to find some information on that. Best of luck rrradam, keep up the campaign.
Everyone else: Don't make matters worse by throwing out your two cents at boldering.com. Let them do their thing, let us do ours, and let the responsible parties sort this conflict out. K, I'm getting off my soapbox.
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doosh
Jun 19, 2002, 10:04 PM
Post #38 of 70
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Photon.
I know why you chose offwidth crack to prove your little point. Good job in coming up with the one type of 5.11 that 10000 climbers will have trouble with.
5.11 is EASY, no matter what dicipline you choose. If I focused on trad climbing, I would climb harder than 5.11. If I focused on sport climbing, I would sportclimb harder than 5.11. If OW crack... I would not stop at 5.11. And, in bouldering, I do climb harder than v4.
Rereading his posts, I see that rrrAdam was more of a troll than really spraying. The fact that he mentioned be able to do it as a "WELL LOOK WHAT I CAN.. 5.11!" is shitty. I don't walk around saying: I CAN SEND V-THIS just to give credibility to my post.
He trolled, he should know better.
Ditto about the copyright thing. Unless he takes the time to register each image with the copyright office, he has no case.
He shoudl know better.
And, ponyryan... good luck on practising that whole "thinking for yourself" thing, champ. Maybe some day, you'll be able to put on your own socks!
Winner!
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rrrADAM
Jun 19, 2002, 10:37 PM
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C'mon Cody... Get serious here, "5.11 is EASY" is spray.
I could have used a "veteran hardman" like yourself to use the cams I was supplied with by Splitter Gear to write my Gear Review here.
BTW... I'm definately a "computor gumby". I can use HTML, but that's about it. I just bought my first computor only 6 months ago.
tRRRoll
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doosh
Jun 20, 2002, 3:51 PM
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Well, that would explain the quality of your website, I suppose.
And, 5.11 IS easy.
Look at the grading system. There are 3 FULL NUMBER GRADES above 5.11. Even in the specialization of offwidth crack, there are .13c's and d's out there.
5.10 translates to v0.
So, while 5.11 might be so f---ing hard for you, personally... on the absolute grading scale from 5.5 - 5.15, 5.11 is relatively easy.
So sorry to break it down like that if you are struggling up 5.9s and 5.10s, but keep practising. That's all it takes to achieve those high numbers.
And remember kids, boldeirng is practising. It WILL make you stronger. This is why even the "veteran hardmen" like Ron Kauk recognize bouldering for its strength training potential.
And as far as your gear review goes, I don't use gear. Unless a crashpad and chalkpot count.
This thread well-represents the general chuffish feel to y'all's little zone over here.
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kriso9tails
Jun 20, 2002, 6:17 PM
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5.11 is considered (or should be) moderate... not easy. Yes there are four number grades above, but there are also around five below (starting from the point where most people starting can climb [not including ancient trad grades from when there was not 5.10]). Obviously if you can onsight 12s and up then 11s seem easy, but you'd have to be pretty dense to warp the scale like that.
The V scale does not, in any universe, translate to yds. Although you can relate the V scale to crux moves on '5.' routes, the factors contributing to the overall difficulty of a boulder problem vs. a route are not the same, nor should they be treated as such. V0!=5.10.
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pander
Jun 20, 2002, 6:40 PM
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anyone else need a towell.?
i think what you guys (photon especially) may be alluding to here is the fact that grades vary WAY too much to mean anything in terms of determining one's ability. and even less to determine rrradam's ability when he uses a grade as average as 5.11.
of interesting note is that in spain climbers (at least the climbers i met) differentiate between "a vista" or "trabajando" when you ask them what level they climb at. it still means nothing, but people this side of the ocean like to pretend on-site capability isn't important, and it is.
please note the links to the pictures on this server are still in the database at boldering.com. (the pictures, of course are here.) can anyone here name one photographer who is complaining about other climbers on other boards seeing their work? is that what's at issue here or is rc.com claiming ownership?
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doosh
Jun 20, 2002, 6:58 PM
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Ok, first... a 5.11 is like a long v2 or v3.
Sorry to break the news to you, but that can be accomplished with relative ease.
Now, OFFWIDTHS are different... but the moves on ANY 5.11 can be accomplished with ease, as in an easy victory or easy party or "Man, that guy made my project look easy."
Well, chuffer, it was.
The 200 foot long Norwegian Traverse at Hueco.
That is hard.
The main point wasn't that 5.11 is easy, which it is. The point is that noone should be using a 5.11 as a demonstration of how rad they are and to add credibility to their post. Any sort of numbers is spray, and if you are going to spray, it might as well be worthy spray.
That being said... not ONE of you pussies has stepped up and admitted to being pissed that your compyrighted image was stolen by b.com.
Not ONE of you has presented an actual copyright license for your "artistic work."
You image well remains in the public domain, and the public will do what they like with your images. Welcome to the WWW.
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kriso9tails
Jun 20, 2002, 7:30 PM
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Yes, 5.11 is average, not easy. 5.10 still does not equal V0. Someone who can easily onsight V0 may not (in fact probably will not) onsight 5.10 if they only boulder. The scales are designed to measure different things. The ony common link is that focus is placed in all scales on the technical difficulty of the moves, but sending a V0 is not the same as sending it 25 times consecutively.
The photo thing... nobody's pissed because it's petty theft. You are defining morality by legality. The laws don't make children play nice, they only restrict the harm they can do to each other. Is taking the pictures wrong? Yes. If you wanted them, then you could have asked the photographers. They might not want to be affiliated with b.com, just as they might not have wanted to be associated with rc.com, but were allowed the choice. It doesn't matter how the pictures got there, if they are visible on the site, and you didn't ask to use them, then they've been taken. Now that I think about it, I guess it's more rude than wrong though.
I don't think that adam has a case regardless. Rc.com does not take responsibility (or rather liability) for where users get their pictures from as far as I know. If a user pirates the picture then that user should get screwed; after all, we unknowingly bought stolen goods, but we didn't steal them. I think it's fair to say the same for b.com. You can't check where every picture comes from; that's too much work for no profit. That doesn't make it good policy t keep the pics. on the site, for rc.com or b.com.
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doosh
Jun 20, 2002, 8:25 PM
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First, you had to qualify your first sentence to include the line: If they only boulder. If you only boulder and aren't even sending v0, you suck. Period.
If I can do 25 v0's in a circuit, I can do a 250 foot 5.10, no problem.
If I can send a v4, chances are, I have the power endurance necessary to get up a 5.10.
You guys who don't climb 5.11 can keep telling me it's hard, but I have run up enough of them in my flipflops to know how easy they are.
Secondly, I have done a little research here and noticed this:
First, when a user uploads his photo to this site, he gives rc.com the copyright. In effect, the photographer no longer has control of the image.
Secondly, the most telling paragraph can be found here:
"While copyright law makes it technically illegal to reproduce almost any new creative work (other than under fair use) without permission, if the work is unregistered and has no real commercial value, it gets very little protection. The author in this case can sue for an injunction against the publication, actual damages from a violation, and possibly court costs. Actual damages means actual money potentially lost by the author due to publication, plus any money gained by the defendant. But if a work has no commercial value, such as a typical E-mail message or conversational USENET posting, the actual damages will be zero. Only the most vindictive (and rich) author would sue when no damages are possible, and the courts don't look kindly on vindictive plaintiffs, unless the defendants are even more vindictive. "
From: http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
Finally, the main issue I take with the whole thing is twofold. First, if rrrAdam had approached a site admin personally, rather than taking his case to the general populace, I would have gladly posted photo credits to rc.com. Instead, he was a troll and then a flamer, and HE EVEN POSTED PHOTOS from rc.com to b.com, making him a hypocrite. This all could have been avoided with (minimal) diplomacy.
And, why does he want to keep climbers from looking at climbing photos ?? You guys post your shots up here to show people right? The images in question went into our huge "Cool boldering pics" thread. They are cool photos from all over the web that climbers find, look at and want to share with other climbers. What is so wrong with that? I mean, wasn't the intent of uploading the images onto a web server to share them with teh web?
Please, someone enlighten me as to why its cool to upload photos to the web but then not share them with anyone.
For the sake of slimming this arguement down, I will concede that 5.11 is hard. I guess I am just a badass or something, but you guys are TOTALLY RIGHT ABOUT 5.11.
Let's stick to the copyright stuff for now.
http://www.chez.com/charentescalade/
http://www.planetmountain.com/English/Special/people/lamberti/index.html
Where are the photo credits?
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Method=ByUser&Action=View&UserID=fiend
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pander
Jun 20, 2002, 8:38 PM
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---
[ This Message was edited by: pander on 2002-06-20 14:06 ]
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doosh
Jun 20, 2002, 8:51 PM
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http://www.boldering.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1196
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doosh
Jun 20, 2002, 9:19 PM
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Let's hear Trev's opinion.
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pianomahnn
Jun 20, 2002, 11:37 PM
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sad
sad
sad
sad
sad
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kriso9tails
Jun 21, 2002, 12:28 AM
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You idiot , not to say that my arguments aren't weak, but the last set you posted have been your worst yet.
Quote:If you only boulder and aren't even sending v0, you suck. Period.
And this comes from where?
Quote:First, you had to qualify your first sentence to include the line: If they only boulder.
And the problem with that is? you were right when you said that bouldering is good training, but if that's all you do then you're not going to hold your own in other areas of climbing.
Quote:If I can do 25 v0's in a circuit, I can do a 250 foot 5.10, no problem.
I agree, in fact that's pretty much what I said myself.
Quote:If I can send a v4, chances are, I have the power endurance necessary to get up a 5.10.
And...? If I can send 5.11+ then I can send a V1 no problem. What does that have to do with anything? It proves that bouldering can be good training I guess, but I don't disagree with that. It doesn't relate the V scale to yds like you keep doing.
Quote:Instead, he was a troll and then a flamer, and HE EVEN POSTED PHOTOS from rc.com to b.com, making him a hypocrite. This all could have been avoided with (minimal) diplomacy.
You are right that he did not take the best road... but are you any better? He started it is a piss poor defense, flamer. He also wasn't being hypocritical. If you'll notice, the issue was not so much the use of the photos, but the use of the photos without permission. He had the authority to consent both to the use of his own pictures and pictures posted on rc.com. He didn't have to take anything.
Quote:And, why does he want to keep climbers from looking at climbing photos ??
Who is to say that he does? He didn't say that you can't use the pictures, because nobody asked. What he did say is that because you didn't ask you can't use them. I guess he's wrong there, because I don't think that the law will do much to support his case, so it seems that b.com will be able to use the pictures without reprimand. Perhaps it's common practice to use photos from other sites, but had the b.com users in question asked for them first, and gotten a yes (from the photographers) then there wouldn't have been a problem. Had the photogs said no, the only a selfish prick would have used them.
Oh yeah, I know you said that you're done with the 5.11 thing, but I used to onsight 11- easily enough. They felt easy to me (well enough of them did), but I wasn't biased or stupid enough to say that they were easy routes. They are moderates, just like V7. Sure many find V7s easy (not me unfortunately) but that doesn't make them easy. I find them hard, but that doesn't make them hard. They are moderates because they fit the middle of the spectrum. That's what moderate usually means. It just seems like you are saying that 5.11 is easy because that's how you find it. It comes across as spray in itself.
[ This Message was edited by: kriso9tails on 2002-06-20 17:32 ]
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