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beyond_gravity
Jun 18, 2002, 5:16 AM
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I just got back from climbing at White Bhudda, witch is a fairly new crag so rock is still crumbling off. Anyways, there's one boulder problem that had a short dyno to a jug, but the jug must had broken off...someone took some glue and glued it back on! Has anyone else heard of this before? And is it ethical? Also, White Bhudda is amazing! The streaked limestone looks just like a mini Ceuse...and just as hard!
Also, to the Ass hole the chiped some pockets in...You better pray that I dont see you...and If I do see you, u better pray I dont have the jumbo hex with me!
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micahmcguire
Jun 18, 2002, 5:40 AM
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well, lets hope it holds and no one tries to place any protection on it. When it comes to loose rock, I would tend to say the safest thing is for it to come off of the climb.
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crux_clipper
Jun 18, 2002, 6:26 AM
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Holds are always going to break off, so they have to be glued back on, especially if it's a vital hold on a V14 boulder problem, which has happened a few times on problems here in Oz.
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krustyklimber
Jun 18, 2002, 7:14 AM
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Yeah it is O. K. if they don't make a slobberey mess of it! And if the hold was truely important!
Jeff
Some chippers lack of respect doesn't justify violence, or profanity.
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micahmcguire
Jun 19, 2002, 8:00 PM
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glueing a hold onto a boulder is alot more safe than onto a really tall trad climb, definitly. Really the only compunctions I would have are 1) do a good job glueing the hold, make sure it wont come busting off the third time someone weights it; 2) make darn sure its not in a spot where someone might try and anchor off of that weakened portion of rock. It might help to make sure its OBVIOUSLY glued, like leave a bit of glue visible around the hold (not enough to make it ugly, but just so its unmistakeable that it is glued). It wold really suck to set a cam or something into a chunk of rock, then have it bust out because its glued and you could not tell beforehand that it would be so weak.
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ponyryan
Jun 19, 2002, 8:19 PM
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Little bit off topic but oh well:
How strong is a glued hold? Could it still be trusted for dyno moves? I can't imagine getting too much strength with just glue, but I'm prolly wrong. Someone explain.
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peas
Jun 19, 2002, 8:33 PM
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Am I the only one who thinks that gluing holds back on is bad style???
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pianomahnn
Jun 19, 2002, 10:04 PM
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pony,
It's not "glue" like that elmer's stuff you used in kindergarten. Most likely it's an epoxy type deal that is going to be VERY strong.
If it was done well, cleaned, etc. then glued, I would trust it as much as I would any other unbroken hold.
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lightboi
Jun 19, 2002, 10:53 PM
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Taking all of the loose rock off a climb is part of the FA's job. Glueing? Just as stupid, lame, egotistical, and shortsighted as chipping. If it was meant to come off then let it be. Enjoy the new problem that has been created. If you think that the hold is "key" then tough, you are too weak. The arguments used in above posts are the same ones that chippers use to justify thier sickness. If you climb on choss then expect it to have holds break. If holds keep breaking, then clean the route better and wear that brain bucket.
[ This Message was edited by: lightboi on 2002-06-19 15:56 ]
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bmgard
Jun 20, 2002, 9:31 AM
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Holds breaking is a part of climbing. Its going to happen that is why we all have to be carefull. I think that if a hold breaks of leave it off. What is next should a first accentionist glue down broken holds that they think are "key" features instead of knocking them off. Or maybe glueing down expanding flaxes so they don't break off. I say leave the rock as it is. If a hold breaks well then you have the pleasure of trying a new sequence.
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vertical_reality
Jun 20, 2002, 1:22 PM
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I think whether or not it should be glued back on depends on the situation.
If it's a "classic" route or problem and is a key hold then maybe the hold should be glued back on so that others can enjoy the climb and experience it the way it was when it was originally put up.
What happens to the ranking of a problem if the hold breaks? Does it affect the grading of the problem? Does it downgrade it from a V12 to a V5 or vise versa?
If the problem is unclimbable without the hold then it should be glued back in place, but you must also consider that maybe by breaking the hold, the problem is "evolving" into something new.
It's basically up to the person responsible, but aspects must be considered... but if you do decide to replace it, use a stong epoxy and clean up and any mess. Ever make a model airplane? Would you want your favourite climb to look like the window in the cockpit?
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madscientist
Jun 20, 2002, 2:09 PM
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Some climbers around the Boulder CO area commonly reinforce holds with glue. I almost got killed by one when friend of mine pulled a huge hold off. Personally, I don't like the practice. The problem is that most of the time the glued hold is not permanent. If someone glued a jug back on, it will probably break again some day.
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daisuke
Jun 20, 2002, 3:06 PM
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glueing holds back on isn't that bad as long as they're still rock, one jerk here in chile glued plastic holds on a 3 meter roof so that it could be free climbed, this after someone freed the same roof on aid. this same guy also chips routes... I think it sucks!
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nutterd
Jun 20, 2002, 4:01 PM
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Um. How does one "free" a climb on aid??
Glueing may or may not be acceptable; it seems to be idiosyncratic depending on the locality. Just like some places accept chipping wholeheartdly, others condemn it. Same with glueing. I'd suggest following local standards: if no other routes at an area are glued, don't glue. If it's an accepted practice, go for it.
Doug
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daisuke
Jun 20, 2002, 4:42 PM
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ummm... I meant to say that he got past it on aid, first ascent, then this guy glued on the plastic holds
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doosh
Jun 20, 2002, 5:16 PM
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Gluing holds is poor form.
If a hold breaks, send the new problem and deal. The fact that the gluer had to go home and get glue and come back and set the hold and glue it and wait for it to dry and then come back to send again proves that he couldn't do the problem the way it stood with the broken hold.
In effect, he altered the natural condition of the rock (friable) to bring the problem within his ability level.
There are ethics in bouldering, and gluiong has no place in them.
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mreardon
Jun 21, 2002, 12:39 AM
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Glue a broken hold back on, glue a blue gym hold in it's place, both the same thing to me. The rock broke. Key hold or not, it's part of nature so why allow your own vanity to ruin it for future climbers. If you want stability, then stay in the gym and climb the same "classics" that will never change. Leave the outdoors alone for those that continue to advance the sport. Gluing and chipping are exactly the same thing. Imagine if Sharma glued the "key" hold back on to Mandala, would it have gotten the same amount of play? Probably not. Instead he got stronger and worked the route as it was. He didn't weaken the route to his ability.
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newtocalgary
Jun 21, 2002, 12:56 AM
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One of the classic routes on zombie roof (squamish)is glued Even with the glue its 13b. without the glue pulling the roof would be imposible and all the fantastic moves through the roof would be gone
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beyond_gravity
Jun 21, 2002, 1:03 AM
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Would climbing on the rock and breaking the hold off not be altering the rock? The guy that glued it back on did a very good job, right down to crumbling up another piece of rock and putting it on the outside of the glue mix to make the glue almost invisible to anyone not climbing the problem.
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jono13
Jun 21, 2002, 1:27 AM
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the hold was really sturdy on there, and the glue job was good, so y would it be bad? and it was on a boulder problem so its not like some old school trad guy is gonna get killed by it, seems fine to me, AND WHITE BUDHA RULES! but try to keep it a secret eh?
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bmgard
Jun 21, 2002, 8:33 AM
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If a key hold breaks and you can't climb it then leave it alone. Let some one better then you pull it. Even if your the best climber in the world today you don't have the right to take the problem away from the next generations 5.16\V17 climbers.
Just my 2 cents.
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