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zara
Mar 27, 2005, 4:15 PM
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Hi,
I'm just getting into trad climbing and I have a friend who is currently training me. After reading through alot of these threads I see alot of people mention taking whippes on cams. How many of you have taken falls on passive protection (nuts, hexes, tri-cams) and had them hold you?
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micronut
Mar 27, 2005, 4:20 PM
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if you don't think a piece will hold you, you shouldn't bother placing or clipping it! i've whipped on all kinds of nuts. when they're in the bomb placement, i trust them more than a cam or bolt. took a 15 to 20 footer onto a #3 stopper......
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angry
Mar 27, 2005, 4:32 PM
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A good nut is more confidence inspiring than a cam in the same spot, why?, cause a good size nut is the same as a small cam.
I saw someone place half (one side) of a nut in a bottomed out and flared crack this summer (I read my book wrong and accidentally sandbagged him), he whipped and that crap caught him. When I cleaned it, I just had to breathe on it and it fell out. This stuff is better than we give it credit for.
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whiteflash
Mar 27, 2005, 5:03 PM
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A bomber nut is way more comforting for me to place than a bomber cam. Just recently I took a 20 footer onto a mid sized nut. Soft landing and the nut came right out of the slot when the second followed. Not that I reccomend taking 20 foot trad falls...but sometimes that's what happens.
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gunked
Mar 27, 2005, 5:05 PM
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Not exactly passive pro but...A 60+ footer on a slung spike that was just a bit bigger than my fist.
Outside of that one, I have taken numerous smaller falls (in the 10 -20 foot range) on nuts.
In general, I feel better about a well placed nut than any other piece of gear.
My 2 cents,
Jason :D
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euroford
Mar 27, 2005, 5:17 PM
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nut placements easy to read, when you have a bomber nut, you KNOW you have a bomber nut. i've taken all of my longer falls on nuts.
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j_ung
Mar 27, 2005, 6:03 PM
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Oh hell, I've taken all kinds of falls on wedges. If the placement and rock are good, they're diesel.
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golsen
Mar 27, 2005, 6:12 PM
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Zara,
I think you are getting great feedback....A bomber nut in good rock is hard to beat. It may take some experience but many people learned to climb with these BC (before cams) and I have fallen on many. I have had a few pop but usually, I new that they were suspect. I have also had a friend (very experienced climber of 27 years, 25 ascents or so of the Diamond) pull a couple seemingly bomber cams from a granite crack (I think it was rock quality that did it).
G
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camhead
Mar 27, 2005, 7:43 PM
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still the biggest trad fall I've taken was three years ago in Little Cottonwood, when I rested on a large (#11) stopper that pulled, making me whip about 35 feet onto a #3 that was halfway slotted into a thin seam. It held.
Scary, but it forever cured me of hangdogging.
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moof
Mar 27, 2005, 7:45 PM
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First leader fall was a 20 foot head first job onto a #13 smiley stopper in sandstone. Placement was a beautiful bottleneck placement that was good for down and a fair amount of outward pull. Of particular note is that I originally placed a #0.75 camalot, due to the bottleneck it walked like crazy, so I swapped it out.
I've also whipped on a green alien (15' aid fall), and winged on a red alien (3' trad fall).
Concentrate on good placements, not cams vs nuts.
I go through cycles, right now I'm in a cam rut, I seem keep an eye out for cam placements more than nuts. Last summer I was kind of passive crazy, doing several multipitches on all passive (hexes, nuts, and tricams), others with just a few key cams. YMMV
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dirtineye
Mar 27, 2005, 8:29 PM
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In reply to: Concentrate on good placements, not cams vs nuts.
EDIT:
Oh yeah, you asked about tri-cams. I've fallen on some, "magic", tricam placements. One day I'm going to do a bunch of pics of bizzaro tricam palcements that would hold a truck.
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sactownclimber
Mar 27, 2005, 8:37 PM
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In reply to: Oh yeah, you asked about tri-cams. I've fallen on some, "magic", tricam placements. One day I'm going to do a bunch of pics of bizzaro tricam palcements that would hold a truck.
That would be sweet!
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fredo
Mar 27, 2005, 10:25 PM
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In reply to: Hi, I'm just getting into trad climbing and I have a friend who is currently training me. After reading through alot of these threads I see alot of people mention taking whippes on cams. How many of you have taken falls on passive protection (nuts, hexes, tri-cams) and had them hold you?
15' on a #6 Chiounard stopper, held like glue, but I broke my ankle on the ledge I passed about half way down. BTW cleaned like a piece of cake.
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modman
Mar 27, 2005, 11:05 PM
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Thats a funny question because it sounds like you are under the impression that cams are safer than nuts. I have only seen peoplle gear come out and them end up hurt when they fall onto a cam.
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climboard
Mar 28, 2005, 2:19 AM
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I've fallen on many more nuts than cams and they've all held. The only piece that's pulled on me was a cam (granted it was in a flaring crack).
If I have a choice between a solid nut and solid cam I'll take the nut, it's easier to visually verify a bomber placement.
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jimdavis
Mar 28, 2005, 5:08 AM
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In reply to: Oh hell, I've taken all kinds of falls on wedges. If the placement and rock are good, they're diesel.
Diesel, huh? And to think I've been using "Yatzy!" when I get those bomber placements.
I might have to learn a new term now.
Jim
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all_that_is_rock
Mar 28, 2005, 5:35 AM
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my first trad fall ever was about 10 feet onto a #5 bd stopper in sand stone. it was my first piece off the ground so it woulda been bad if it failed, but it didn't. mad props to nuts :D
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azrockclimber
Mar 28, 2005, 1:34 PM
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I recntly took a 25+ foot'er on a #5 nut. I mean...if the pro is placed well in good rock..it should hold. it takes time and experience to determine whether or not your piece of pro will hold....and even then it may not. don't be reckless.
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zara
Mar 28, 2005, 11:17 PM
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thanks for all the good feedback.
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korntera
Mar 28, 2005, 11:39 PM
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I took my first trad fall two weekends ago. It wasn't by accident, my friend and i just wanted to trust the placement and see if it was good. We only took a 5-10 foot fall at most and it held just fine. I would trust a well placed nut better than a cam, but the places i climb have many cam placements and not nearly as many nut placements.
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sirlancelot
Mar 28, 2005, 11:42 PM
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After a year of leading I finally did a smart thing this winter. I went outside and practiced/tested my placements by bouncing on them by standing on a sling. I learned alot and scared the shit out of myself at the same time. There really is an art to placing nuts. Some bomber looking placements were fine when I put body weight on them, but ripped through the crack after bouncing on them. On the other end, some marginal looking nut placements in flaring cracks held fine as long as they were set.
After 2 hours I came to one important conclusion: tricams are better than any other pro out there. In fact, if you see a climber in the gunks with nothing but tricams on his rack - you'll know it's this idiot right here.
Lance
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jeremy11
Mar 29, 2005, 12:21 AM
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like sirlancelot said, testing your placements is a very good idea, go do a few aid climbs for this. my 1st and only gear fall was on one of these aid climbs. tested and stepped onto a #6 rock empire nut and it held, clipped the rope into it and then (I must have changed my direction of pull on it by moving) it popped on me, a well placed #5 WC Rockentric (curved hex) caught me for about a 12 footer. Cleaned fine with a nut tool too. the nut that popped on me was a dumb hasty placement (dont get impatient on aid) since when I went back up, a red tricam did the trick wonderfully.
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ikellen
Apr 1, 2005, 6:14 AM
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Of all my trad falls, a nut saved me on a fall that had it not, I would have hit a ledge. Right off the ground, about 30 feet up, #6 BD stopper at my feet, with a ledge about 10 feet below me. I had good gear at the ledge, and then the nut at my feet. Fell when one of my hand jams in a flare popped and the nut held me fine.
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meataxe
Apr 1, 2005, 2:57 PM
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In reply to: After 2 hours I came to one important conclusion: tricams are better than any other pro out there. In fact, if you see a climber in the gunks with nothing but tricams on his rack - you'll know it's this idiot right here. Lance
I understand, on an intellectual level, that tricams make good pro. In my gut, though, I just don't get that warm fuzzy feeling I would get from a good nut. This is for the camming placements, not the passive placements.
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piton
Apr 1, 2005, 3:21 PM
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c took a 40 footer on a #3 stopper. passive pro is excellent just spend more time placing to make it bomber, and always set passive pro. learn to oppose passive pro
right now i'm going freakin crazy. it's suppose to rain all freakin weekend. and i want to play. i have way too much energy.
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