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Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no
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ldsclimber


Mar 6, 2004, 5:51 AM
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Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no
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I've climbed in the strong hold a few years and it seems to me that every time I go there is a new line of bolts thats been put up. I can't help but climb them since it's there but when is it enough. It's a trad area that is getting a lot of drill time. I am just wondering what climbers who climb there think about it. AGAIN I will continue to climb the new routes but I just want to hear what you think.


socalbolter


Mar 6, 2004, 6:05 AM
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Re: Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no [In reply to]
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the first few years i went there, i was drawn to the trad climbing and the feeling of being "out there".

the last few trips i spent i/2 the time clipping bolts and having fun, but many times i felt the routes crowded adjacent trad lines that were my initial reason for making the trek.

i'd like to see the two coexist, but perhaps with a little more respect from the bolters in regard to the classic lines they may be crowding.


mikec


Apr 5, 2005, 7:53 PM
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Re: Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no [In reply to]
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I kind of like the idea proposed at the City of Rocks Idaho. If you want to put up a new route you have to submit your request to the park rangers.

I think the real danger is a poorly done route.

I guess other great areas co-exsist with both bolted and traditional lines. The City of Rocks is just one of them.

The real issue is involvment of the park in new development. It would be a real shame to see no more bolting allowed because of some one's less than wize decisions.

Mikec


climbsomething


Apr 5, 2005, 9:01 PM
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Re: Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no [In reply to]
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I kind of like the idea proposed at the City of Rocks Idaho. If you want to put up a new route you have to submit your request to the park rangers.

I think the real danger is a poorly done route.

I guess other great areas co-exsist with both bolted and traditional lines. The City of Rocks is just one of them.

The real issue is involvment of the park in new development. It would be a real shame to see no more bolting allowed because of some one's less than wize decisions.

Mikec
I don't know if he's doing all of the bolting, but the fellow I know who puts a lot of time and energy into the Stronghold does not just shotgun bolts haphazardly. He's no gumby. And no amount of indignation can change that many, MANY climbers clip every one of his bolts on a route, and go out to the Stronghold expressly to do so.

With all due respect, kicking up dirt here with people who likely don't really know what they're talking about may not be as productive as having an intelligent conversation with the main developer(s). If you don't know who they are, ask around Tucson.. they're not hermits.


scottd


Apr 5, 2005, 9:28 PM
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Re: Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no [In reply to]
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I have to agree w/ climbsomething.

Scott has been putting up a lot of routes. Many have bolts, but only where there are no alternative pro opportunities. All of the bolted routes I've climbed out there have been of exceptional quality. ( Most are slab routes if anyone doesn't know)

My only complaint would have to be the sometimes over bolting of the cruxes. Bolts do not need to be closer than 6-7 feet. I must add though that I love those bolts when I'm sketched :wink: A catch 22 as it were.

Cochise still remains a ballsy place if you climb any of the old school routes. I think a good route is not dependant on the type and frequency of pro opportunities, but the quality of the rock itself. If you are on a slab and there aren't any cracks or pockets for pro, would you be willing to take a 100 footer?? Not me. The bolts just allow access for more people to safely enjoy the route.

And remember. All the routes in Cochise SUCK...Stay away, do not go there....
Shhhhhhh...

Thanks again Scott


menotyou


Apr 5, 2005, 9:40 PM
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Re: Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no [In reply to]
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Oddly, I agree with Hillary on this one. Many of those bolted lines that are supposedly crowding the classics were put up by some of the same people that put up the classics. Anyone who has concerns over the bolting of routes in Cochise is better off talking to folks putting up the bolts then seeking answers on the web. For those of you who are interested in meeting the people involved, I recommend checking out a beanfest.

"The bolting arguments never die." - Bonnie Kamps


socalbolter


Apr 5, 2005, 9:43 PM
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Re: Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no [In reply to]
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Just so my earlier coments are not taken in a way they were not intended...

I would not have ever gone to this area if it was not for hearing about it from Scott. I've also enjoyed many of his routes there (bolted and not) and think he's doing a fine job overall.

There are a select few routes that would not have been bolted if it were up to me, but by and large Scott (and others) are to be applauded for the incredible efforts in time and money that they donate to our sport. There are many additional options for area climbers because of their efforts.


climbsomething


Apr 5, 2005, 10:26 PM
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Re: Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Oddly, I agree with Hillary on this one.
Don't you hate when that happens? :)

In reply to:
My only complaint would have to be the sometimes over bolting of the cruxes. Bolts do not need to be closer than 6-7 feet. I must add though that I love those bolts when I'm sketched ;) A catch 22 as it were.
Not a catch-22. More like the honest truth and a widely-held sentiment. At least you're not afraid to admit it!


scottd


Apr 5, 2005, 11:10 PM
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Re: Cochise Strong Hold over bolting or no [In reply to]
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Yeah, I strive to be a strongman, but fall short everytime. hehe :lol:


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