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climbercam
Jun 29, 2002, 1:06 AM
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I've always been taught to hang food from a tree, but if you camp above the treeline, how should you protect your food bags and cooking gear from Bears?
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tim
Jun 29, 2002, 1:14 AM
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Ursack!
Little kevlar sack that you can anchor to anything that won't pull out (eg. a tree, a rock, a bolt, whatever).
Bears don't usually poach above 12,000' though. It's happened, but it's unusual.
I've tried burying, the bag toss, etc. etc. and basically the only things that are sure-fire are bear canisters ($$$, heavy), bear lockers (limited to NPS locations), and the Ursack (sort of $$$ but very handy).
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jmlangford
Jun 29, 2002, 1:37 AM
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I just stack the food up right outside my tent and put my pots and pans on top of it. If the bears come, the pans fall off, wake me up, and I charge out of my tent yelling bloody murder. They usually stay away after that!
[ This Message was edited by: jmlangford on 2002-06-28 19:51 ]
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stevematthys
Jun 29, 2002, 2:16 AM
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hike down and store your food in tree line
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apollodorus
Jun 29, 2002, 2:36 AM
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Helioport your supplies. I saw it on Vertical Limit.
Or just put the food 30 feet up on a 5.8/5.9 boulder, well out of their reach. It worked great for me at the base of Half Dome, until the bear climbed right up and got our bags.
Or just take things that they can't smell. Yeah, right. At the base of the Excalibur a bear came by at night and was able to smell right through Grey Poupon mustard, mayonaise and hot sauce packs. These were the little packs we stole from Degnan's Deli. He ate the mayonaise, and left everything else. He didn't have to bite the GP or tobasco packs to know they were not what he wanted.
Bears are smart as hell, and can get your food even if you THINK you're being smart about it.
A better question might be: how do you get the bear to haul your gear up the wall before he eats your food.
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a4naught
Jun 29, 2002, 3:27 AM
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Actually, depending upon the location above treeline, bears have been "moving on up" like they never did before above 12K feet. Why? Us in large numbers toting all those lovely edibles up above the treeline. If the area you are in has a lot of backpacking or climber activity where overnights and, therefore, food are specially wrapped in ripstop nylon for bear take-out, you'd best carry a cannister and stash it in a depression or in amongs low lying growth, or among big rocks where you can get to it, but, if the bear does, all he'll be able to do is roll it around and get frustrated. If you stash it on an uphill or near a cliff...be prepared to either chase down your rolling food or say "bu-bye" to it altogether. This includes near water, especially moving water. The cannister, tho heavy as already noted, and expensive (about $70, but you can rent them many places for a few bucks in many locations), is extremely effective in protecting backcountry food and I have not heard of a single incident where a bear has actually gotten into one. Note the above exceptions possible with a rolling/floating cannister!
I also have an Ursack, but, tho they got provisional OK (there is mandatory cannister usage in places like Yosemite and Sequoia, for example, while in backcountry areas) in most of the major "problem" parks across CA, last summer, it was immediately recinded within a month's time, as bears in at least three of them made off with food stashed in them. The Ursack is really only good for the smaller varmints and keeping your stuff from them, securing it just high enough that racoons or marmots cannot get to it...or if they do, they cannot chew through. Plus, on the few occasions where a bear didn't actually "eat" the food inside, they pulverized it, making for a wonderful melange of breakfast, lunch and dinner...powder.
Unless you are in one of the mandatory cannister area (where you can be cited for not protecting your food from the bears), the bold and the brave seem to follow the jmlangford method of pots pans. Just make sure if the bear decides she wants to keep the food, that you do not physically try to take it back. Otherwise, what better way to start your early morning/evening than to run out half (all?) naked into the morning/night shrieking like a banshee the better to make sure the hot chocolate is still there to enjoy in the morning?
Unfortunately, these seem to be your choices at the mo. BTW, in the big NPs and NF that are bear hotspots which have cannister requirements and bear boxes in campgrounds, has been shown repeatedly that hanging food is ineffective, as the bears have learned how to get your stuff. If they don't, you are merely lucky...but for how long?
Always call the ranger district destination to ask for local activity and recommendations.
[ This Message was edited by: a4naught on 2002-06-28 20:32 ]
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krustyklimber
Jun 29, 2002, 4:12 AM
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Personally I like a .357 magnum with hollow point bullets, fired rapidly from close range!
Just kidding!
I used to joke that "I didn't have to outrun the bear, I only had to outrun my friends"...
Now with a steel plate in my leg and a permanent limp I'm in trouble!
Jeff
P.S. we used to call the Ursak the squirshsak, because like mentioned above they just smash and bite the contents to mush! But they do work good for chipmunks. I have lost way more good food to chipmunks than to bears, in fact I have lost no food to bears!
Chipmunks, marmots, pikas, magpies, camprobbers, Clarkes nuthatches, and worst of all famous ringtailed cats are the real theives of the high country!
[ This Message was edited by: krustyklimber on 2002-06-30 00:10 ]
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climbinghoser
Jun 29, 2002, 4:45 AM
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I learned a new way to keep wildlife (raccoons and bears especially) away from your campsite, and more importantly, you. What you do is very simple. First you need a big canvas bag (a.k.a. Duluth bag). Second, you will need two heavy-duty plastic bags that will fit inside of your canvas bag. Thick garbage bags work great. Then all you need is some twine or something else to tie the bags shut. Here is what you do.
First, put one plastic bag into your canvas bag, so that both openings are in the same spot. Then put the second plastic bag into the first plastic bag. Now you should have a three-lined bag.
Next, put your food into the second bag. After all your food is in the bag, grab the mouth of the bag and pull the sides apart so the mouth of the bag looks like two plastic sheets. Then you start folding the mouth into halves, so you where you originally had two flat sheets by each other, you now have four, then eight, etc. After you do this, squeeze as much air out of the bag as possible. This will make packaging easier. The mouth of your plastic bag should now be just a bunch of folds.
Next, fold the mouth down towards the bottom of the bag. You want to make the fold about six inches (or 15.24cm for those of you who are like that) from the mouth of the bag. Keep folding the bag down until you cannot do it any longer. Your bag should now look like a bag full of something with a stem on the top.
Finally, take the twine and TIGHTLY wrap it several times around the folds you just made, and then make a nice knot and seal it up.
All you need to do now is repeat the process with your first plastic bag. This will make a completely airtight package. And of course, somehow close your canvas bag.
But wait, you are not finished. Many bears and raccoons know where popular campsites are. Even if they do not smell food, they are good at identifying packages that might hold food and tear them up. So, your last step would be to carry your canvas bag (with the two plastic bags and food inside) to a spot about 100 yds (91.44m) from your campsite. And here is the kicker: just set it on the ground. You do not need to hang it from a tree or put it under anything. It should be completely air tight, and away from where bears or raccoons know to look for food, so it is completely safe! I have read books by very experienced campers who claim this method, when executed properly, is 100% foolproof. It even worked for me, so there must be something to it. The only downside to this method is that it is kind of a pain to wrap and unwrap your supplies like this, especially if you need to dig way down into the bottom of your bag. On the plus side, your food is not only airtight; it is watertight as well. Many canoeists who use this method will testify to that fact. If you somehow flip your canoe, drop your sack in the water, or most likely leave your pack out in the rain, the canvas will be drenched of course, but everything inside will be in tip-top shape.
I think that covers everything. Sorry for the vague instructions, but it is late and I have to get to bed. Tomorrow I am getting a new (used) car! Anyways, happy camping!
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scotia
Jun 30, 2002, 10:30 PM
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One of those bomb proof bear canisters. Helioprting is a good idea because it was in Vertical Limit and we all know how realistic that was.
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jmlangford
Jul 1, 2002, 12:31 AM
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Krusty...why were you kidding? Personally, I think the .44 magnum is a better choice but if you are a good shot .357 is fine. Protecting my property and livelihood sometimes calls for the use of deadly force!
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jeffi
Jul 1, 2002, 1:58 AM
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I used to hang my food from the trees like they tell you but after being forced to buy a bear canister (the rentals were out) in the Sierras a couple of years ago I am converted. Just put the food in the canister, lock it, and sleep tight! No more finding trees, tossing rocks, and all those other "wonderful" activities associated with hanging food at or close to dark. The price? About 3 lbs additional to carry.
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a4naught
Jul 1, 2002, 3:42 AM
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Gee Mtngeo,
Thanks! I guess that just means that when the dang fires clear (soon, I hope), Colorado up high is the place to be far from the madding bears. I think our bear education system is more advanced because of extreme number of private bear tutors (ahem, I mean tourists) piling into the same glorious areas in ever greater numbers.
You used the the word "erudite"...you rocker. Are you trying to one-up me?
And jmlangford, funny you should prefer the .44mag for those "less confident" in their accuracy under duress. Years ago, my now ex decided he would feel better with his .44mag up in the Rockies bping. I tried to disuade him, but he'd been steeping for weeks in bear attack stories. So, I said, "hey, whatever. I'm just not carrying the thing." Know why? 7 pounds (not including ammo!), that's why. We won't even talk about how I felt the skin on my face blow back from the concussion, while I was standing NEXT to him at the range firing the thing. wow. Now this was before the old bear cannisters, a measly 3 lbs. I never did ask him how he thought he'd manage to get a bead on with the thing tucked into his pack on the trail, but hey. Sometimes ya need the big metal security blanket, eh?
Seven pounds!! God, how many Camalots could you carry before you'd hit seven pounds?? (actually, I'd be amused to know, since I really don't)
Climbinghoser, interesting variant on a classic Ray Jardine-esque solution: don't eat/store food where you camp and never let them smell your food in the first place. I will have to examine this more closely.
[ This Message was edited by: a4naught on 2002-06-30 20:45 ]
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theamish
Jul 1, 2002, 12:34 PM
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Just carry MRE's, nothing on earth will eat these things on purpose. Seriously though, unless you are packing some fire power the "scare the bear away" technique is risky. About 5 years ago a packer tried this, in the Smokies, on a black bear and it turned on him and beat him within an inch of his life. To add insult the bear then took his rations anyway. There are few places that if you loose your food that you can't shed the non-essentials from your pack and get out to a new food source within two days to save your life. Remember, hand to hand combat with even a small black bear can get you killed.
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bradhill
Jul 1, 2002, 4:40 PM
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climbercam
Jul 3, 2002, 6:10 PM
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Thanks guys and gal I appreciate the responses! I'm headed to Devil's tower this weekend and then to the Wind Rivers. Don't think I'll be camping above the treeline this round, but might be on my next visit to the Winds.
I won't claim to be as educated as the bear scholars each of you have encountered but at least the playing field is a little more level now
Thanks again !
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toobigtoclimb
Jul 3, 2002, 6:22 PM
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I am working on a plan to leave the food on the ground and suspend myself from a tree.
It's just conceptual right now...........
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krustyklimber
Jul 3, 2002, 7:06 PM
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Oh, this is getting so funny!
Jody,
I should've said very,very close range! I only chose this sidearm because of the way it fits nicely on my packbelt. Our friend a4naught makes a good point about weight, pehaps we've found a decent use for the Glock 9mm!
A4naught,
I think Jody knows a thing or two about using a firearm "under duress"! Did you look at his profile?
Toobigtoclimb,
That made me laugh so hard! That's what portaledges are for, eh?
Theamish, MRE's , that is so true!
And like theamish says hand to paw combat with a bear is not a pretty thing...
Remember to save that last shot for yourself!
Jeff
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a4naught
Jul 13, 2002, 4:17 AM
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theamish,
Of course, good point on the scare tactic. Personally, tho I've seen a bunch of folks suggest it, I don't think much of it myself. Oh, they look all fuzzy and cuddly when _I'm_ safe in the zoo (har), but without the enclosure, they do a better job of scaring me, I'm afraid. Ngah! But, hey! I still filter my water in the Sierras, too.
Hey now, the Peanut butter and crackers in the MRE are ok! Seemed like a good idea at the time...
[ This Message was edited by: a4naught on 2002-07-12 21:19 ]
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beyond_gravity
Jul 13, 2002, 4:47 AM
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bear canisters are crap. Dont even bother with them.
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eminem_imposter
Jul 13, 2002, 10:33 PM
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ok, heres what i do, i sit there untill i hear the bas*ard then i charge out, pepper spray blarin, then once he cant see, hit him in the nose w/ a stick or something (their nose is the most sensetive part of their body) and he will run like a baby. or for the faint of hear just take along a bazooka
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wildtrail
Jul 13, 2002, 11:26 PM
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I do what apollodorus does. Put it up on a boulder or route that a bear can't get to.
jabbeaux is also right. They don't "usually" go up above treeline. Using "usually" loosely.
Steve
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