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mazzystr
Apr 1, 2005, 7:17 PM
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i took a 35footer, pulled 3hexes. the one i expected to hold didnt and sent me ripping 2 that i knew wouldn't hold a large fall. i 2.5 tricam stopped me 2feet from the ground.
tricams rule!
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tadam2000
Apr 1, 2005, 7:55 PM
Post #27 of 62
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My first leader fall was a 30-footer onto a #5 hex (on cord, not wire) in sandstone. It held perfectly. I have more faith in a well-placed nut than an equally well-placed cam.
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jaybro
Apr 4, 2005, 4:01 AM
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Good placements work. I've fallen, more times than I can count, on all of them: cams, wires, hexes, pins, bolts etc. Pins and bolts fail the most. I've had one cam and one wire, pop, both of which I had half expected. Never had a hex pull. If you learn well, pro you place yourself and deem good is Always more reliable than an anonymous bolt; who knows what's in there? It's better if you can see it.
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curt
Apr 4, 2005, 4:15 AM
Post #29 of 62
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In reply to: Not exactly passive pro but...A 60+ footer on a slung spike that was just a bit bigger than my fist.
Nectar Vector?
Curt
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gunksgoer
Apr 4, 2005, 4:15 AM
Post #30 of 62
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ive havnt taken a lead fall on passive gear yet, probably because if im gonna be bothered to slot in a nut im not in a place that im likely to fall from. i have however bounced and stood on passive gear while aiding and used it for anchors as well. i will say tho that a bomber 13 stopper is the most confidence inspiring placement for me.
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aikimac
Apr 4, 2005, 2:30 PM
Post #31 of 62
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My first trad fall, I was topping out onto a steep slope with a thick layer of dead leaves, and it all started to slide. Twenty feet later I was hanging upside down from a #6 Smiley with my head 18 inches from a ledge. The piece was bomber, as was my partner who caught me despite being pelted by falling rocks/sticks/leaves!
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cchildre
Apr 4, 2005, 2:46 PM
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Funny how a nut inspires more confidence than a cam! Look at the straight numbers, a cam will hold as many and in most cases more Kn than a nut will ever hold even in a bomber placement. The mentality is yours to shape and as your psychie is the result of your perspective on things. I have choosen to alter mine and give a higher level of respect to a cam placement than a nut. Just my opinion.
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samuel
Apr 4, 2005, 3:03 PM
Post #33 of 62
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In reply to: Funny how a nut inspires more confidence than a cam! Look at the straight numbers, a cam will hold as many and in most cases more Kn than a nut will ever hold even in a bomber placement. The mentality is yours to shape and as your psychie is the result of your perspective on things. I have choosen to alter mine and give a higher level of respect to a cam placement than a nut. Just my opinion.
The kN given on these are when they break, but they can fail before that in real life scenarios.
That is of course true for both nuts and cams, but a true bottleneck placement seems easier to evaluate for most people than a cam in a parallel crack.
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taualum23
Apr 4, 2005, 3:22 PM
Post #34 of 62
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Yet another vote of confidence for well placed passive pro. I took my first two leader falls over a #10. It was one of those placements that you look at and say a secret thank you to the trad gods for looking out for you. Looked solid, felt solid, even sounded solid.
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boymeetsrock
Apr 7, 2005, 5:51 PM
Post #35 of 62
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I taken a ten footer on a #7 nut, and a ten footer to twenty foot ground fall on a .75 camalot. nuts are without a doubt easier to assess, even inmo compared to the new metolius range finders. cams increase the oppertunity for failure via, incorrect placement, walking/shifting. nuts are less likely to shift, and once an eye is developed for placement, their esier to place correctly than cams.
I'm so scared/inexperienced with cams, that i would rather run it out over a good nu, than even dtep above what i believe to be a good cam. i thought the last cam i fell on was good... boy was i wrong.
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tradklime
Apr 7, 2005, 6:05 PM
Post #36 of 62
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In reply to: I saw someone place half (one side) of a nut in a bottomed out and flared crack this summer (I read my book wrong and accidentally sandbagged him), he whipped and that crap caught him. When I cleaned it, I just had to breathe on it and it fell out. This stuff is better than we give it credit for.
That nut was totally bomber dude! :roll: Never leave the ground without micros....never, regardless of what your nuckle-head partner says.
It all works when placed well. And sometimes even when it isn't.
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angry
Apr 7, 2005, 10:55 PM
Post #37 of 62
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In reply to: In reply to: I saw someone place half (one side) of a nut in a bottomed out and flared crack this summer (I read my book wrong and accidentally sandbagged him), he whipped and that crap caught him. When I cleaned it, I just had to breathe on it and it fell out. This stuff is better than we give it credit for. That nut was totally bomber dude! :roll: Never leave the ground without micros....never, regardless of what your nuckle-head partner says. It all works when placed well. And sometimes even when it isn't.
That guy was totally weak too.
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elvislegs
Apr 7, 2005, 11:09 PM
Post #38 of 62
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In reply to: still the biggest trad fall I've taken was three years ago in Little Cottonwood, when I rested on a large (#11) stopper that pulled, making me whip about 35 feet onto a #3 that was halfway slotted into a thin seam. It held. Scary, but it forever cured me of hangdogging.
aahahaha, that's great! i know EXACTLY how you felt in that moment.
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dontmaytagme
Apr 24, 2005, 6:24 PM
Post #39 of 62
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Registered: Jun 1, 2003
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All sizes of a hex.. hell. Hex's inspire more confidence 'cause i've fallen on them more. :)
ja.
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climbingnurse
Apr 24, 2005, 7:43 PM
Post #40 of 62
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In reply to: How many of you have taken falls on passive protection (nuts, hexes, tri-cams) and had them hold you?
I didn't read through all the posts but thought I'd offer my two cents. I've taken a total of 5 falls onto gear:
#'s 1-3: 8 feet onto a #1 camalot
#4: 15 feet onto a #2 camalot
#5: 25 feet onto a #9 stopper
In general, I feel like well-placed passive pro is more trustworthy than well-placed active pro. There's a lot less things that can go wrong with passive pro.
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crimpstrength
Apr 24, 2005, 8:31 PM
Post #41 of 62
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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My first and only trad fall was a five footer on a #8 Metolius Curve Nut. I was actually happy that I fell because my self confidence in my gear placing ability jumped through the roof. I now worship that piece nightly with sacrifices and psalms.
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dangler1
Apr 28, 2005, 3:56 AM
Post #42 of 62
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Registered: Feb 14, 2005
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The last real whipper I took was on a little blue TCU. The placement held extremely well but the impact junked up the lobe on that little thing pretty well. It stayed in and we finished the route. Solid piece of gear in my bag.
dangler
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timmy_t
Apr 28, 2005, 4:48 AM
Post #43 of 62
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Registered: Dec 23, 2004
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Are hooks considered passive pro? Chock me up for 2 falls if so (BD talon, and a pointy leeper). Cam stops? That is just one... that I can remember anyway (it was a good one though, just two lobes and 6 inches lower than I placed it!). Nuts, too many to count. Some memorable ones are a crap #4 BD and another crap #8 equalized, 17 feet up, 15 foot fall. And a #3 BD that I was down climbing to because I didn't think it would hold a fall... and I slipped off and fell on it before I got to it, heh, whoops.
I hope that gives you some confidence in your passive gear!!
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lovesclimbing
Apr 28, 2005, 5:05 AM
Post #44 of 62
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Have any of you guys ever fallen on limestone? I have taken small falls on nuts on granit but never on limestone.
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graniteboy
Apr 30, 2005, 12:21 AM
Post #45 of 62
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Yeah, hundreds of falls on passive pro over the last 30 years. But no really big ones: nothing longer than ~80 feet.
The Gist of the issue is this: a well placed piece will hold a fall.
A poorly placed piece might get you killed, maimed, or even laughed at.
Your job is to decide which is which, and what's acceptable when it's somewhere in the middle.
Proving once again that judgement and skill are WAY more important than Technology. Especially in gravity sports.
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healyje
May 2, 2005, 6:26 PM
Post #46 of 62
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Registered: Aug 22, 2004
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It's a toolbox - learn to use all the tools in it and when to use each one; they're all good. Favoring one over the other just limits your options at any given point...
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azrockclimber
May 2, 2005, 6:38 PM
Post #47 of 62
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Registered: Jan 28, 2005
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I have...a few... most recently a 25-30'er on a #4 nut...needless to say I stiil had my eyes fixed on the piece during the whole fall.
a bomber nut is my favorite piece of gear.
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thegreytradster
May 2, 2005, 10:39 PM
Post #48 of 62
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Enough to have forgoten most and only remember the particularly spectacular ones.
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wormly81
May 2, 2005, 10:58 PM
Post #49 of 62
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Registered: May 9, 2004
Posts: 280
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In reply to: Yeah, hundreds of falls on passive pro over the last 30 years. But no really big ones: nothing longer than ~80 feet.
Ewwww. I hope my first lead fall isnt an 80 footer....
In reply to: A poorly placed piece might get you killed, maimed, or even laughed at.
And I REALLY dont want to be laughed at.
Jeff
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nedsurf
May 2, 2005, 11:53 PM
Post #50 of 62
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Registered: Nov 9, 2004
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OP, since you are first starting, start placing passive pro only first. this stuff you need to know how to place. Fall on it, after your mentor has checked the placement. you need to trust your gear, you need to fall. you will find that you will trust the passive stuff a lot.
I think the reason that people don't talk so much about falling on stoppers is that experienced climbers trust them well, and there is no discussion. Cams are, IMO, a little harder to tell if it is a good placement or not. I can usually tell immediatly if a stopper is not sitting right.
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